The Dark Knight Did anyone feel sorry for the Joker at all??

[MissionBond92]

At one point, I felt SOOO bad for him. In the begining, when he's talking to all the gangsers and they start to call him a freak and laugh at him, and talk over him; he looked so paniced and insulted <3

I'm always rooting for the Joker X)
When he was falling off that building, I was like "Nooooooo! My baby!!!"

haha X)
what can I say, I love that freak <3

ROFL ROFL

 

[AIRWOLF]

He was a very unsympathetic character. That's part of the strategy of not seeing an origin for him so you don't feel any connection with him....boom! there he is in all his evil glory.
Now Harvey Dent...that was the character you were supposed to feel sypaathy for.

Which is the only reason I think the character might be expendable, imo. I did started to feel sorry for him when he began to describe the history behind his scars, but when he kept on changing it, it melted away. Harvey, Goblin, and Ock, villains like these make for an interesting character for we get to know them better. Joker is a superb character but I just don't see how can he be rated the most awesome of all with not even a slightest hint about his past. That's my only complaint with the guy or his creators, I think its cowardly not to give the character a definite origin just to keep him interesting the way he is, but imo giving him a past would deepen his character.

 

[BruceWayne]

Which is the only reason I think the character might be expendable, imo. I did started to feel sorry for him when he began to describe the history behind his scars, but when he kept on changing it, it melted away. Harvey, Goblin, and Ock, villains like these make for an interesting character for we get to know them better. Joker is a superb character but I just don't see how can he be rated the most awesome of all with not even a slightest hint about his past. That's my only complaint with the guy or his creators, I think its cowardly not to give the character a definite origin just to keep him interesting the way he is, but imo giving him a past would deepen his character.

I disagree. I think you can give a character a ton of demension without having to give a backstory. And I think they did that perfectly with the Joker in this film. The only reason for a history would be to know how he got his scars...I'd rather it remain a mystery. I think just knowing his motives is enough and the fact he has no real motive other than to just do things make him that much more of a deeper character than a Doc Ock or Goblin.

 

[Aidan2209]

^ I agree.

 

[AIRWOLF]

I disagree. I think you can give a character a ton of demension without having to give a backstory. And I think they did that perfectly with the Joker in this film. The only reason for a history would be to know how he got his scars...I'd rather it remain a mystery. I think just knowing his motives is enough and the fact he has no real motive other than to just do things make him that much more of a deeper character than a Doc Ock or Goblin.

In that case, I find Joker no different than Carnage: one of the debated one dimensional characters of all. Since he too lives for the love of carnage and creating chaos. Except the only difference is Joker sometimes likes to play games with the hero of the city. Do elaborate as to why having no real motive makes him a deeper character though.

 

[Aidan2209]

People put way too much stock in backstories. It isn't necessary to know every facet of a character's life in order for him to be interesting.

 

[jdlynch1]

I totally agree with the whole Gamble moment, but after the whole pencil trick I would have had called him crazy too.

 

[FrankieSuicide]

Because the joker is a f'n force of nature.

 

[BruceWayne]

In that case, I find Joker no different than Carnage: one of the debated one dimensional characters of all. Since he too lives for the love of carnage and creating chaos. Except the only difference is Joker sometimes likes to play games with the hero of the city. Do elaborate as to why having no real motive makes him a deeper character though.

Joker in no way is a one dimensional character. Yes he does things by random, but it's usually to prove a point...no matter how twisted it is. TDK played that well. In the broad scope of things, Joker was trying to prove a point to Gotham and Batman. I'd rather of the fear of the unpredicatable. You don't get when you know where the character comes from and how he came to be. Not knowing makes him all the more interesting.

And I'm no Marvel expert in the least, but I though Carnage was the left overs from Venom that just retained the hate for Spiderman.

 

[bgates87]

I actually felt a little sorry for him when neither of the boats blew up. He had such a disappointed look on his face, lol. I don't know, I always side with villains.

 

[AIRWOLF]

People put way too much stock in backstories. It isn't necessary to know every facet of a character's life in order for him to be interesting.

Exactly my point. That's why I find it interesting sometimes when people argue about villains and what makes them a deeper character.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Hell no! He was creepy as hell and made me cringe every time he was on screen (which was PERFECT!)

 

[mongoose-mania]

It's hard to feel bad for this Joker because he killed innocent people just so he could get Batman to take off his mask. He has no sympathy for anybody, he just doesn't care. And the stories about the scars didn't make me feel bad either, they just creeped the heck outta me.
Now, the Joker in The Killing Joke. That's a Joker to feel sorry for.

 

[BruceWayne]

It's hard to feel bad for this Joker because he killed innocent people just so he could get Batman to take off his mask. He has no sympathy for anybody, he just doesn't care. And the stories about the scars didn't make me feel bad either, they just creeped the heck outta me.
Now, the Joker in The Killing Joke. That's a Joker to feel sorry for.

Eh. I thin TKJ story weakens the character personally...it humanizes him too much and gives a reason for his madness. I just can't think of him the same way. It makes him look like he's just lashing out at the world for revenge on what happened to him. I prefer the monster and having him lash out just for the sake of it and the reaction it gets.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Joker in no way is a one dimensional character. Yes he does things by random, but it's usually to prove a point...no matter how twisted it is. TDK played that well. In the broad scope of things, Joker was trying to prove a point to Gotham and Batman. I'd rather of the fear of the unpredicatable. You don't get when you know where the character comes from and how he came to be. Not knowing makes him all the more interesting.

And I'm no Marvel expert in the least, but I though Carnage was the left overs from Venom that just retained the hate for Spiderman.

I never said he is one dimensional, rather raised a point. I wouldn't go any further with this since it is a touchy topic to discuss.

 

[GreenKToo]

Nope, nada, zero. Dude was nutz.

 

[BurningBallroom]

He was a very unsympathetic character. That's part of the strategy of not seeing an origin for him so you don't feel any connection with him....boom! there he is in all his evil glory.
Now Harvey Dent...that was the character you were supposed to feel sypaathy for.

I don't think many people would feel sympathy, probably apathy.

 

[BruceWayne]

I never said he is one dimensional, rather raised a point. I won't get into other villains here since its a TDK section, but for the sake of argument since he is called at times a Joker wanna-be, Carnage doesn't necessarily hates Spider-Man like any villain would, I haven't seen him target Spidey out of hatred. But I guess I don't see exactly how is Joker any different than Carnage. They both enjoy killing, messing around with the hero at times...all in all one is DC and one is Marvel: only difference Kassidy has a past. So if Carnage never had a past and was an absolute character like Joker, would he be considered multi-dimensional or "awesome"? Or if he killed Mary Jane perhaps?

Again, I know nothing about Carnage other than the very basic. I didn't even know his real name. I'm just saying that the Joker doesn't need a back story to make him interesting or a deep. If he does, then it humanizes him and gives a reason to his madness. I prefer not knowing anything because it makes him more intriging, more interesting as to trying to find out why he's doing certain things. I think Joker's main goal is to prove to Batman that he is the joke.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Again, I know nothing about Carnage other than the very basic. I didn't even know his real name. I'm just saying that the Joker doesn't need a back story to make him interesting or a deep. If he does, then it humanizes him and gives a reason to his madness. I prefer not knowing anything because it makes him more intriging, more interesting as to trying to find out why he's doing certain things. I think Joker's main goal is to prove to Batman that he is the joke.

Yeah I guess, but thanks for keeping the discussion calm and cool.

 

[BruceWayne]

Yeah I guess, but thanks for keeping the discussion calm and cool.

I ain't here to start fights. Just to discuss and talk about something other people share the same passion for.


But I do love when I can have someone see my point...hahah.

 

[johnny621]

I felt sorry for Dent,.

 

[AIRWOLF]

I ain't here to start fights. Just to discuss and talk about something other people share the same passion for.


But I do love when I can have someone see my point...hahah.

It just shows that they are here to listen as well and are willing to see things differently.

 

[Caladbolg]

No pity whatsoever. Joker was a personality that would do terrible things at any moment just for the hell of it. Truly made me uneasy.

I felt sorrier for Ra's than I did for Joker. In this movie its Harvey that you feel most sorry for.

 

[DACrowe]

No. The dude is pure evil and there are no redeeming qualities to him whatsoever. He is taunting those who would empathize with him. The one moment of vulnerability he has the whole movie is his shock when the people didn't blow themselves up on the ferries and then he says something like "What a crazy world we live in" as he attempts to blow them up.

Joker is CRAZY and has no pathos. Harvey Two-Face on the other hand was a heartbreaking villain, if you would call him that.

 

[BruceWayne]

No. The dude is pure evil and there are no redeeming qualities to him whatsoever. He is taunting those who would empathize with him. The one moment of vulnerability he has the whole movie is his shock when the people didn't blow themselves up on the ferries and then he says something like "What a crazy world we live in" as he attempts to blow them up.

Joker is CRAZY and has no pathos. Harvey Two-Face on the other hand was a heartbreaking villain, if you would call him that.

I'm not asking overall. Yeah, I have no sympathy for the character overall...but at certain points I did. That's why I want people to re-read my first post.

Off topic...Harvey...yea, I guess he can be a sympathetic character in this movie, but the whole time I just wanted Two-Face and his story is always changing. I didn't feel as sorry for him in TLH. Now Freeze....that is a sympathetic character.