Arrow Dinah Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy Thread - Part 3

[Paradox1]

when you have the Black Siren who needs Oliver Queen and that's why she won't be a mainstay on Arrow ever again.

 

[Batsfan1]

On twitter, last night at least, I only saw good comments for her. I only searched for Black Siren, so every tweet would show and ppl were mostly pleased by what they saw, so I think they did a good job.

She wasn't too much developed but come on, she was on during half episode, interacted with Flash, Cisco, Caitlin, Zoom and had a big power display, all that on the penultimate episode of the Flash, where the focus is on Team Flash and Zoom final face off. Plus, she's one of the few (if not only) meta human locked up at Star Labs and not Iron Heights, that's big come back potential for next season....

This isn't next season. I'm sorry, but the dead bird thing put me off. I don't think The Flash writers are gonna treat her much better. Usually votw's get some kind of backstory. With her, it was nothing. Personally, the only way the Laurel thing for me can be fixed by Flash is if they have John Constantine come in, pull Black Siren out of her body and put Black Canary in. Or just reveal that Black Siren was killed on E2 and Zoom faked E1 Laurel's death, brainwashed her with an E2 mind controller and gave her superpowers somehow. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[zenith16]

no magic always makes things worse in the books and it's been happening alot of other in live action and animated shows that explore magic of late too and the writers always head there. sorry to say. magic doesn't solve things.

 

[Primal Slayer]

TBH I'd prefer she be on LOT or Flash so that MG can't get his hands on her character...again. Besides, I'd feel bad for KC as the Olicity fandom would likely renew their foul, hateful attacks on her. If she remains on Flash and LOT she's blissfully outside of the realm of Olicity and will be used well. Then, in the last few seasons of Arrow, maybe they can finally bring her on once she's had her own time to develop as a character and maybe they'll use her properly (and who knows, if Arrow goes 6-8 seasons, maybe MG and WM will be replaced–and that might even allow for Oliver and Black Siren).

Is she referred to as Laurel or as Dinah? Or just as Black Siren?

Of course if I had to choose, I would choose for her to be on LoT over Arrow/Flash. But I just want her around again. Even after Laurel has died, people still haven't stopped trying to come for her so it wont change anything.

 

[zenith16]

I'd rather it flash. Guggenheim has some say in Legends of tomorrow and it'll be his creation of sara versus laurel as it is for felicity on arrow. MG shouldn't get his hands on any resembling black canary.


if it's Andrew krisingberg or if it's any other show runner it's fine. but if MG is linked to the show expect for black canary or siren in this case to get the shaft and eventually be killed for his creation.

katie was shown to be fun with Andrew and she showed the personality as the real dina laurel lance .

look at how she is with MG.

 

[Primal Slayer]

 

[The Caped Knight]

She worked better as Black Siren than Black Canary

 

[Primal Slayer]

It is how Black Canary should've been. Confidant, sassy, smart, powerful, not a constant screw up. Though I feel like they finally got a good handle on the character in the last 3 episdoes before they killed her off but go figure.

 

[Batsfan1]

no magic always makes things worse in the books and it's been happening alot of other in live action and animated shows that explore magic of late too and the writers always head there. sorry to say. magic doesn't solve things.

Honestly, it's probably the least convoluted option. But it's all in how it's done. Though the issues of that are problematic. I'm not interested in seeing a redemption arc for a character that I don't know though. The Black Canary isn't an ex villain, turned hero. She's a woman who had taken the mantle from a relative who dies to be a hero, trains with Ted Grant and gets the canary cry. I have no reason to be invested in a character that's the character in name and powers only. Black Canary is that. Green Arrow was stranded on an island. Batman saw his parents murdered in front of him. Flash was struck by lightning. Superman was sent to earth from krypton before it explodes. Maybe they could come up with some E1/E2 mumbo jumbo about how E1 Laurel's spirit or soul or something has started to take over Black Siren's body, due to it being the natural course or something, like she's drawn to her body in E1 if it's still alive. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Mikelus]

I'd rather it flash. Guggenheim has some say in Legends of tomorrow and it'll be his creation of sara versus laurel as it is for felicity on arrow. MG shouldn't get his hands on any resembling black canary.


if it's Andrew krisingberg or if it's any other show runner it's fine. but if MG is linked to the show expect for black canary or siren in this case to get the shaft and eventually be killed for his creation.

katie was shown to be fun with Andrew and she showed the personality as the real dina laurel lance .

look at how she is with MG.

Yes, but MG is not alone, Berlanti is still involved this season:

4x01 Green Arrow, story by: Greg Berlanti & Beth Schwartz
4x08 Legends of Yesterday, story by: Greg Berlanti & Marc Guggenheim
4x23 Schism, story by: Greg Berlanti

Guggenheim is not a dictator that decides everything, Berlanti is also responsible as the series co-creator, writer and producer. If they want to write a badass BC, they can.

They know many fans are not happy with this fiasco, if they want to fix it, they could with time travel. It seems Snart will be back, if he can return thanks to some time travel BS, then why not Laurel. They're going to get more flak for their abuse of female characters if someone like Snart gets a second chance.

 

[Primal Slayer]

GB is involved but MG drives the ship, GB helps with outlining but filling in the blanks go mainly to MG/WM.

They don't care about fans not being happy with LL death, MG has been using it as a way to say "we do what we want" from actually saying the words to retweeting articles about "forget canon" and saying every possible way that Laurel is dead.

 

[Mikelus]

They can't do whatever they want, they can't use certain characters like the Green Lantern, Booster Gold, etc... because of the movies. If rumours are true and BC is going to be part of the DCEU, maybe that's the reason for killing her off, which is still stupid with the Multiverse already established. We'll see if Geoff Johns, now that he has more power, can change this policy and allow multiple versions of these characters.

 

[Primal Slayer]

You don't kill her off then introduce a replacement when her funeral hasnt even been held. Even if they are introducing her in the movies, she didn't have to be killed off. She could've stayed on through the end of the season then leave.

 

[lanesrader]

They can't do whatever they want, they can't use certain characters like the Green Lantern, Booster Gold, etc... because of the movies. If rumours are true and BC is going to be part of the DCEU, maybe that's the reason for killing her off, which is still stupid with the Multiverse already established. We'll see if Geoff Johns, now that he has more power, can change this policy and allow multiple versions of these characters.

imo i don't think the film rumors had anything to do with BC getting killed off. From what KC said in her panel it seems like it was more of Marc and co's decision to kill her off.

 

[SpideyVille]

Yeah, the initial rumor I heard was that KC wanted her release. But from the sounds of things lately, MG made the decision himself and didn't even bother to let her know.

 

[Primal Slayer]

After how excited she was to suit up, there was no way KC wanted out this soon.

 

[batdude]

Yeah, the initial rumor I heard was that KC wanted her release. But from the sounds of things lately, MG made the decision himself and didn't even bother to let her know.

That's the rotten part. KC really should have been the first to know, but I kind of think MG wanted the fans to blame her or the film division.

 

[Mikelus]

The thing is, MG did that because Warner let him do it, so the studio is also responsible. If WB says no, you can't kill her off, the producers would have to comply.

 

[zenith16]

The thing is, MG did that because Warner let him do it, so the studio is also responsible. If WB says no, you can't kill her off, the producers would have to comply.

as I said as show runner he he has control with what happen to the characters with in it they don't care unless the rating are so low thayt are loosing money and will look for a reason bartlini is too busy being the new JJ abram's to stop MG cause he's ether doing set up's with new show's like river dale trying to make super girl fit the network of cw or his new baby of bland spot on NBC.

and HE'S REALLY BUSY WITH THE SCRIPT OF BOOSTER GOLD AND BLUE BEETLE whicwas Green lit last week..


this is what it mean's when I say he's the new JJ abram's . Bartlini focus too busy for him to focus the same way a executive produce would where ever detail of a show just that one show he has to sign of on a say no too . he's a producer and NOT EXCUTIVE PRODUCDER . his attention is not there on arrow.

while he's above an executive producer it's the executive producer that does the work of telling the writers what to cut and has the same powers as director of the show does. the producer where Berlanti is too busy creating new show's in start up fashion ,.while he hear's about the other he left in charge as show runners are doing, he's not steering the ship of the story's of was shows.


he's not involved in every single facet of how the show's story will come out cause hs's/she's too busy with his own projects. he just knows the shedual's of when they will air . say oo k good job goes back to his own projects. he hear's over view and out lines . but other details are for the people he left inchagre o as show runners to deal with. but people like bartlini are overly busy starting up something new.

this kinda is why Geoff john was added in a live action tv producer as well as for movies . Berlanti is on the JJ abram's trip (which josh whedon was for a time) where his focus is some where else. where when JJabram's leave a show for his movie or new tv project for some weird reason the current hit show suffers with out his complete focus. and it's where JJ has some that he left running show can keep that show afloat quality wise with out him. which has been odd. Alot of show's suffer from this of late.


MG has free reign for now . the show really has to be suffering in rating before some one really looks what MG has been doing. other wise we'll just keep getting dip's a rise's mostly dip's .

 

[Crossvale]

I'd rather it flash. Guggenheim has some say in Legends of tomorrow and it'll be his creation of sara versus laurel as it is for felicity on arrow. MG shouldn't get his hands on any resembling black canary.

Exactly. Guggie has some of his claws on LOT, I for one prefer Black Siren to stay in The Flash but LOT is second choice, way better than Error.
Flash is my top choice, away from Olicity crazies & Sara stans.

Guggenheim is not a dictator that decides everything, Berlanti is also responsible as the series co-creator, writer and producer. If they want to write a badass BC, they can.

Maybe not a dictactor but Guggje is the main showrunner of Arrow and has a pretty sweet gig with LOT, Greg is way too busy making pilots for every US broadcast network, he just isnt as involved with CWDCTV anymore. Guggie is using his powers on those two shows to make sure DLL/BC stays dead or keep away any version of her (Thank grodd, The Flash is not his baby, but Im sure he tried to block Black Siren). It doesnt help that he has got Wendy "The Olicity Miracle" as his sideckick.

will look for a reason bartlini is too busy being the new JJ abram's to stop MG cause he's ether doing set up's with new show's like river dale trying to make super girl fit the network of cw or his new baby of bland spot on NBC.

Is that like a nickname for GB? I dont let Berlanti off the hook either, he is too busy with other things to care and he is letting MG & WM get away with murdering Arrow show. He is happy as long as his monthly paycheck from these shows come through.

 

[Mikelus]

I don't like Guggenheim's writing and trolling behaviour online, but I don't think he hates the Black Canary character, it's just that these producers, including Berlanti, didn't know how to write her properly, they should've made her BC from the start of the show or at least, use the particle accelerator incident to give her the canary cry while she was in Central City visiting her mom. They could've done things right, but to do that, you really have to care about the characters first. The Green Arrow and Black Canary from the Justice League cartoon by Bruce Timm were much better, they were treated with more respect and care.

 

[SpideyVille]

I don't like Guggenheim's writing and trolling behaviour online, but I don't think he hates the Black Canary character, it's just that these producers, including Berlanti, didn't know how to write her properly, they should've made her BC from the start of the show or at least, use the particle accelerator incident to give her the canary cry while she was in Central City visiting her mom. They could've done things right, but to do that, you really have to care about the characters first. The Green Arrow and Black Canary from the Justice League cartoon by Bruce Timm were much better, they were treated with more respect and care.

I don't think he hates the character either, but it has been well documented that he wasn't a fan of KC early on, and I think that may have played into how he handled the character.

I think Bertlanti had a general blueprint of how he wanted to show her journey, but once the Flash got picked up and the universe was being extended, I think he placed more trust in others to figure it out as he was less involved.

 

[Mikelus]

I don't think he hates the character either, but it has been well documented that he wasn't a fan of KC early on, and I think that may have played into how he handled the character.

And why he wasn't a fan? Is the source of that info reliable? It could be just another silly rumour. And MG said this in an interview:

TVLINE | How did Katie take the news? Did the fact that a death had been teased in the season-opening flash-forward soften the blow at all?

MG: I would say probably not. Look, it’s a hard conversation for both parties to have, for the showrunner and the actor. And we’ve had a few of them. I will say that Katie, from that conversation to when she show wrapped, has been a class act all the way. She’s been so professional and so gracious. And what’s kind of nice is the fact that [Arrow, The Flash and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow] have introduced different elements [that allow for improbable returns], so fundamentally no one is ever gone for good. In fact, right after we show wrapped Katie on Arrow, she signed on to be in [CW Seed’]s Vixen Season 2, she signed on to be in an episode of Flash. I said to her that between the three shows we have time travel, resurrection, parallel universes and flashbacks — dead does not mean goodbye. I meant it when I said it, and lo and behold within the space of a month there are two more instances where she’s working for us. Again, I’ve got to give Katie a lot of credit. There are a lot of actors who would have been petulant. They would have had a colorful response.

TVLINE | But this isn’t her first rodeo. She’s been on a lot of shows. She is a pro.

She is such a pro. And that’s one of the things she said — “I know the way this business works and the way this show works.” One of these days, I swear to God, we’re going to kill off a character who’s played by an actor we don’t like, and it will probably feel very different. But the truth of the matter is everyone’s who has died on the show have all been [played by] genuinely wonderful people. Katie, in addition to being a pro, is also in possession of a really good story sense. She’s always understood the show very well, she’s understood her character very well. It didn’t require a lot of explanation or persuasion for us to articulate what this story development would do for the series going forward. She’s a really smart cookie.

http://tvline.com/2016/04/06/arrow-katie-cassidy-leaving-laurel-dies-grave-season-4/

He seems sincere, he didn't have to explain why Katie is such a pro, not every producer does that. But this is a business, so who knows.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I for one am convinced that she was killed off to prove a point. They don't like to be held with responsibility to handling comic characters well on Arrow and Laurel had an active fanbase that wasn't backing down on how she was treated and they obviously didn't have interest in furthering LL on her BC journey so they killed her which silenced a lot of people on both sides.

The show being made up of all "original" characters outside of Oliver is very telling to me. Their reasoning behind choosing Laurel was weak as hell and any character could've been put in her place and gotten the same results across the Flarrowverse, though Thea/Diggle would've had a stronger impact on Oliver as opposed to the person he was willing to cut out of his life without a blink of an eye 5 episodes ago.

And just as KC is professional, MG isn't going to cast the first stone and look like the villain.

But Laurels 2 min appearance on Vixen is going to be so useless now, it will be used to fill in the blanks on their seemingly developing friendship that can't even be explored anymore and will be a huge tease.

 

[SpideyVille]

And why he wasn't a fan? Is the source of that info reliable? It could be just another silly rumour. And MG said this in an interview:



He seems sincere, he didn't have to explain why Katie is such a pro, not every producer does that. But this is a business, so who knows.

I've mentioned it here before when the topic first came, but it's typical "Hollywood" speak. You never want to publicly trash your employer/employee. No one stands to benefit from that. Maybe in 10-15 years from now, you might hear some new things when this is far behind everyone, but I don't expect him to say anything that could even come close to sounding offensive towards her. I expect him to talk as highly about her as he would about someone he might have a better relationship with, and vice versa.

Now that's not to say that the rumors are absolutely 100% true. Those can also be exaggerated. But I just feel like there's more evidence to support those, based on how involved he's been in things like promoting Olicity, to the point where he's photoshopping himself into the photos. Like I can't tell if that's truly the agenda he wants to push because he enjoys it, or if he thinks it will deliver in bringing in more fans, but either way, his decisions towards Laurel seem like he is so against her and so in favor of the Olicity arcs, that I can't tell which he loves/hates more.