Discussion: Racism - Part 4

[DeadPresident]

I think you're thinking of the stereotypical Hugh Grant bumbling Englishman accent lol Scottish folk tend to sound aggressive even when we're just saying hello

Hah indeed, but that’s definitely the association most non-UK residents have when they think of “a British accent”, they think of Jason Statham in Snatch or Eddie Redmayne in...everything. Very few of them know there are dozens of dialects and that many British English speakers sound like they’re recovering from a stroke.

I don’t think the Scottish accent sounds particularly aggressive, but I guess I could see why some folks pick that up.

 

[DeadPresident]

Why is everyone now losing their heads at Stephen King for literally saying he thinks the best person should win regardless of race? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

They’re probably mostly doing it because internet troglodytes must be outraged about everything. But their attempt at a reasonable argument is going to be something along the lines of “This is analogous to the ‘oh I’m color blind, I don’t see color at all’ argument that doesn’t recognize the difficulties of marginalized identity groups and doesn’t do enough to provide equity for those disenfranchised by years of subjugation and exclusion”.

Underneath that though some people definitely just want to antagonize dysfunctional conversation and division.

 

[jolldan]

Hah indeed, but that’s definitely the association most non-UK residents have when they think of “a British accent”, they think of Jason Statham in Snatch or Eddie Redmayne in...everything. Very few of them know there are dozens of dialects and that many British English speakers sound like they’re recovering from a stroke.

I don’t think the Scottish accent sounds particularly aggressive, but I guess I could see why some folks pick that up.

Yeah I find it hilarious what people think of as a "British accent" as when I travelled to the US about 90% of people I met in New York thought I was from Ireland

They’re probably mostly doing it because internet troglodytes must be outraged about everything. But their attempt at a reasonable argument is going to be something along the lines of “This is analogous to the ‘oh I’m color blind, I don’t see color at all’ argument that doesn’t recognize the difficulties of marginalized identity groups and doesn’t do enough to provide equity for those disenfranchised by years of subjugation and exclusion”.

Underneath that though some people definitely just want to antagonize dysfunctional conversation and division.

Don't get me wrong I understand that side if he had said something like "I don't see color period" but its more an acknowledgement that he does see it but doesn't think it should have any bearing on if you are nominated or not. I mean I thought Djimon Hounsou should have won in 06 over Alan Arkin but he was passed up and even though I thought personally that was the wrong decision I didn't assume he was passed up because of his color.

Really think the media really don't help with these types of stories, with the majority that report on this kind of stuff being left leaning they always try and amply the outrage or the severity of what's been said. I mean I searched Oscar Nominations in google because I couldn't remember the year Djimon Hounsou was nominated for and these are the three top stories that popped up.

Its starting to make them sound not like a voice for those people who have been wronged or excluded but more like a brattish group that just didn't get their way.

 

[Teelie]

Why is everyone now losing their heads at Stephen King for literally saying he thinks the best person should win regardless of race? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Best and most reasonable would have been having Awkwafina, Jennifer Lopez and a few other non-white actors getting a nomination. No offense to the other nominees, they are all obvious good actors, but the bias (again) against people of color is rearing its ugly head.

 

[chamber-music]

Hah indeed, but that’s definitely the association most non-UK residents have when they think of “a British accent”, they think of Jason Statham in Snatch or Eddie Redmayne in...everything. Very few of them know there are dozens of dialects and that many British English speakers sound like they’re recovering from a stroke.

I don’t think the Scottish accent sounds particularly aggressive, but I guess I could see why some folks pick that up.

I've heard some people say they find certain Glaswegian accents aggressive but not really the various Scotland accents as a whole.

You would be hard pressed to find the posh side of Edinburgh accent aggressive.

I'm from London and most people familiar with the city know we have at least four distinct accents.

RP (Received Pronunciation), Cockney, MLE (Multicultural English) and Esturay also known as mockney.

RP accent - Hugh Grant is modern RP and stuff like Downton Abbey is old fashioned RP

Cockney accent - Micheal Caine or your average gangsters in a Guy Ritchie movie

MLE - Daniel Kalyuua, Riz Ahmed and Sacha Baron Cohen's Ali G character. Accent that is a mixture of cockney and the various immigrant communities that have come to London over the last 70 years. Common among inner city youth and has replaced Cockney as the dominant accent of millennial/Gen Z Londoners.

Esturay accent - Russell Brand and chef Jamie Oliver. Common in suburbs of London and surrounding areas. Is a middle ground accent on a sliding scale between RP and Cockney.

 

[jolldan]

Best and most reasonable would have been having Awkwafina, Jennifer Lopez and a few other non-white actors getting a nomination. No offense to the other nominees, they are all obvious good actors, but the bias (again) against people of color is rearing its ugly head.

I understand if you think they should have been nominated (can't say I have seen their films this year) but think about that sentence from King's perspective if he genuinely didn't view any of them as deserving based on their performances alone then to me it would seem more dishonest if he had chosen them just because he felt he had to.

I've heard some people say they find certain Glaswegian accents aggressive but not really the various Scotland accents as a whole.

You would be hard pressed to find the posh side of Edinburgh accent aggressive.

I'm from London and most people familiar with the city know we have at least four distinct accents.

RP (Received Pronunciation), Cockney, MLE (Multicultural English) and Esturay also known as mockney.

RP accent - Hugh Grant is modern RP and stuff like Downton Abbey is old fashioned RP

Cockney accent - Micheal Caine or your average gangsters in a Guy Ritchie movie

MLE - Daniel Kalyuua, Riz Ahmed and Sacha Baron Cohen's Ali G character. Accent that is a mixture of cockney and the various immigrant communities that have come to London over the last 70 years. Common among inner city youth and has replaced Cockney as the dominant accent of millennial/Gen Z Londoners.

Esturay accent - Russell Brand and chef Jamie Oliver. Common in suburbs of London and surrounding areas. Is a middle ground accent on a sliding scale between RP and Cockney.

The far West coast & East coast are where it tends to get strongest. I agree though central and borders tend to be a lot easier to understand. They're was a show called Trawlermen and it was filmed only 20-30 miles from me and literally every sentence was subtitled when I worked with two Geordie's I would show it to them for a laugh and they genuinely thought they were speaking Gaelic lol and that was the translation.

 

[DeadPresident]

I've heard some people say they find certain Glaswegian accents aggressive but not really the various Scotland accents as a whole.

You would be hard pressed to find the posh side of Edinburgh accent aggressive.

I'm from London and most people familiar with the city know we have at least four distinct accents.

RP (Received Pronunciation), Cockney, MLE (Multicultural English) and Esturay also known as mockney.

RP accent - Hugh Grant is modern RP and stuff like Downton Abbey is old fashioned RP

Cockney accent - Micheal Caine or your average gangsters in a Guy Ritchie movie

MLE - Daniel Kalyuua, Riz Ahmed and Sacha Baron Cohen's Ali G character. Accent that is a mixture of cockney and the various immigrant communities that have come to London over the last 70 years. Common among inner city youth and has replaced Cockney as the dominant accent of millennial/Gen Z Londoners.

Esturay accent - Russell Brand and chef Jamie Oliver. Common in suburbs of London and surrounding areas. Is a middle ground accent on a sliding scale between RP and Cockney.

This is a fantastic breakdown, thanks. It’s particularly interesting since I’m a linguist by qualification, and I’ve never come across a categorization or list before for London accents.

So I suppose technically when most people think of “upper crust” English accents what they mean is Received Pronunciation in all likelihood.

 

[Erzengel]

I understand if you think they should have been nominated (can't say I have seen their films this year) but think about that sentence from King's perspective if he genuinely didn't view any of them as deserving based on their performances alone then to me it would seem more dishonest if he had chosen them just because he felt he had to.

What is the option if there are 6 selections for an award, a position, etc. and the 5 best whether based on resume or performance happen to be all of the same ethnicity with 1 being the one who isn't? Do you remove one of the better 5 in the name of diversity?

 

[MilkmanDan]

I can see Stephen King's point. And really the problem might be less about great movies or performances by people of colour are being overlooked and more about there not being enough of them as filmmakers. White directors and producers get nominated for movies they cast with mostly white actors some of whom also get nominated.

As for why there aren't more successful people of colour behind the camera... I don't know if there's just one reason. Outright bigotry may be a factor, but it could also be something as simple as a lot of filmmakers getting their start as unpaid interns and that being a situation that naturally favours people from a relatively privileged (often white) background

 

[chamber-music]

I just can't find it in me to care about award shows any more. Most of these award shows have declining ratings and most of the stuff nominated is not anything people will remember in the long term.

Can anyone say they remember who won what two, three or four years ago without looking it up?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just can't find it in me to care about award shows any more. Most of these award shows have declining ratings and most of the stuff nominated is not anything people will remember in the long term.

Can anyone say they remember who won what two, three or four years ago without looking it up?

I remember when the Oscars were a religious experience for me. I still care about who wins, but too many years of being annoyed by the whole thing has turned me off watching it. Sometimes I still do it, but it isn't like it use to be, and I have skipped the show entirely.

 

[RockSP]

I just can't find it in me to care about award shows any more.

I don't get why people outside of the film industry care about them in the first place. If I think a movie sucks I don't change my mind because of a silly arbitrary statue. Same goes for if I think one is good but it wins nothing. I mean was Scorcese some hack before he finally won for The Departed?

 

[jolldan]

What is the option if there are 6 selections for an award, a position, etc. and the 5 best whether based on resume or performance happen to be all of the same ethnicity with 1 being the one who isn't? Do you remove one of the better 5 in the name of diversity?

I may have misunderstood your wording here so if I have I apologize. But I think if I have read correctly its a case like you said of the 5 best all being the same ethnicity whether they be White, Black, Asian, etc and the 1 being a different ethnicity. I wouldn't change anything from that lineup as long as like you said those 6 were deemed the most deserving.

 

[Donner]

Something like the Oscars is super subjective. No one questions talent when it's 6 white dudes nominated, but as soon as women or POC are in the running, suddenly it's pandering to diversity quotas.

It's BS.

 

[Teelie]

It can't be sexist or racist when it is about "talent" though.

Which is to say the Academy does not think they are talented enough so they go with the default white guy.

 

[SuperT]

The biggest issue with the Oscars and most similar award shows is that the people who make up the group that's deciding the nominees are all old white men. This same thing can be applied outside of Hollywood and in the general workforce, most people in positions to make hiring decisions are all white men. It's been proven time and time again, whether consciously or unconsciously, they will always favor other white men like themselves.

Flaw in having all white men vote on these movies, musics, television etc. is that they'll completely miss cultural nuances, messages, themes, etc. that are super important to us people of color but they're oblivious to. I hate to use my avatar as an example (LOL), but a white person at face value isn't going to understand the cultural importance of Beyonce's Coachella performance or why it resonated with Black people.

That's why having people from different racial and ethnic backgrounds in the room making the decisions is important. Me being Black, I'm sure I missed out on a ton of things while watching Parasite or The Farewell that were culturally important to the Asian populations those movies highlighted.

 

[Sithborg]

 

[Teelie]

Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Sithborg]

So, an RPG maker decided to kick up a hornets nest...

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Facts are controversial these days I guess.

You can love his work all you want... Doesn't change that, yes, Lovecraft was an emotionally stunted bigot.

I actually LOVE the novel BATTLEFIELD EARTH. It is a rip roaring pulpy old school sci fi story that is miles better than that movie. That doesn't change that L. Ron Hubbard was the founder of an insidious cult.

 

[Sithborg]

Facts are controversial these days I guess.

You can love his work all you want... Doesn't change that, yes, Lovecraft was an emotionally stunted bigot.

I actually LOVE the novel BATTLEFIELD EARTH. It is a rip roaring pulpy old school sci fi story that is miles better than that movie. That doesn't change that L. Ron Hubbard was the founder of an insidious con.

Scientology is all about the grift. So, about the same as various other "christian" organizations.

 

[RockSP]

And another one. Professor Musical Chairs should be his new Internet Racist name, maybe? #sittingwhileblack
A student refused to move seats, so a professor called the cops on him - CNN

 

[Sithborg]

The hell?

 

[Sithborg]

So, what will be the British version of the Klan?

Norwich residents hold anti-racism protest at 'Brexit day' poster

 

[DeadPresident]

Not that a bit of unnecessary fear mongering isn’t great and all but the article implies that was aimed at Eastern Europeans do angling for the “racism on the rise, British KKK!” line doesn’t really seem accurate.

Xenophobic? Sure. Racist? Not sure.