The Dark Knight Rises Do you see TDKR's reputation growing in future years?

[Travesty]

That pic of Bane from BTAS always makes me laugh.

 

[shauner111]

He is still a lot closer to comic book Bane than Nolan's Bane. He is essentially everything Nolan's Bane should have been. Still has everything from the comics that people loved about Bane, but also fits perfectly in with the mercenary/militaristic tone Nolan was going for.

Correct. Origins Bane is way closer to comic bane but still has Nolan's influences.

 

[shauner111]

That pic of Bane from BTAS always makes me laugh.

Me too, he's got dem' raging hemroids to go with dem' steroids!

 

[shauner111]

I don't think Dini wrote BTAS Bane, at all. I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with it. So no, that can't be it.

Most of the characters in the Arkham games, save for Origins, were written poorly. Not just Bane (who was just a big, dumb, video game boss essentially). Even Joker in the end gets downgraded to a simple boss fight villain. Gameplay was what was essential to those games, not the story. That's why Origins' gameplay is criticized as a knock off while it's storytelling is praised.

Agreed.

 

[milost]

Compared to the comics, he doesn't have as much depth.

Agreed.

Finally, we agree on something! Good!

Well except this small quibble,

Dini or whoever wrote him in the 90s and in the video games. Whoever it is, their interpretation sucks.

Joker doesn't suck because he can't be a mass murdering, psychopathic clown. Two-Face doesn't suck since they can only push the Big Bad Harv psychosis so far with kids watching. Batman himself doesn't suck, even if we never saw his parents get gunned down in coldblood.

Bane, for what he was in a television show watched by children, was fine. Perfectly acceptable. He was smart (captured Robin, planned to betray Thorne and run the city) and strong (destroyed the Batmobile with his bare hands). Not much else they could have done unless you think the prison origin would have been appropriate back in the day.

But hey, atleast he wasn't a cliched suicide bomber doing it for a little girl and her father that hated him!

Correct. Origins Bane is way closer to comic bane but still has Nolan's leather jacket

Fixed, agreed.

 

[DACrowe]

Other than a black jacket, you have nothing. Not the mask, not the accent, not the build, not the costume, not the characterization.

You really can't be this far in denial, can you?

Other than his mask and Venom dispenser (which are very much from the comics), his costume his HEAVILY influenced by Rises.

Beyond the jacket (BTW I notice you intentionally picked the wrong one for your comparison):

[/img]

He is wearing military gear and a military styled vest in the above pictures not unlike this:

Now as you astutely point out Bane in the comics dresses like this:
The black vest has always been there. So have the gloves (and venom).

[/quote]

That ain't no black vest. That is the spandexed costume of a luchadore or pro wrestler. Or:

The level of denial in this thread is staggering when you cannot tell the difference between a vest and a pro-wrestler's V-shirt, uni-pants tights.

That mask should rule out any inspiration or influence you seem to think TDKR had. It's more of a luchador/assassin type mask from Arkham Asylum and BTAS with the eyes and mouth holes than that ridiculous tarantula mask from the movie.

Yes the mask is based on the comic book look. Though it now at least gives him eyes and a mouth. Making it a superior design, in my opinion, to the comics.

Man, you're just not reading what the Joker is posting.


Bane in the Animated Series is a cartoon character created for ALL audiences, including children. You're kidding yourself if you think the writers could have given Bane his prison origin where he smashes the brains out of rats as a child, or leads bloody prison riots, or breaks the hero's back in two. He had to be "watered down". Just like the Joker, just like Two-Face, etc. They couldn't kill, they were lucky if they could hold/shoot a gun or gas people to give them a rictus grin. Joker can talk about smashing Batman's face in with a cyanide pie all he wants, when it comes to Christmas with the Joker and Batman gets tricked, NOTHING can happen to him, certainly not a disfigured and melting face.

So it's not a double standard. The Joker is clearly weighing what an Animated Series 90s Bane can do vs. what a 2012 film interpretation can do.


Funny how you left things out like, I don't know, Bane ripping Croc apart, or smashing Batman's car in with his bare hands. Bane's overall plan to kill Thorne and take control of Thorne's criminal empire once Batman is eliminated. The capturing of Robin as a boy hostage. Candice was a little trick, and it was implied that Bane was gonna try and get a piece. That's pretty impressive for a television show that aired on Fox and Cartoon Network. It doesn't matter what Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, or any of the other writers or talents involved wanted, the sky wasn't the limit. It has nothing to do with them wanting to do it or not. It wasn't even written by them either. I believe it was written by Mitch Brian who did a fine job.


TDKR had potential, they could have pushed the boundaries as far as they could have gone, but they didn't. Nolan made him a lackey, a suicidal psycho that wants to die in the name of a man that despised him. All your post revolution, "Occupy Gotham" drivel is for naught. That wasn't Bane's motivation. Leveling the city was. Had it actually been about revolution, you might have been on to something. Had Bane been that prisoner, born to life in hell because of his father's sins, you might have been onto something. Had he escaped himself and built himself up as this sort of conqueror of the city with actual aspirations and honor, you might have been on to something. In the end, it was all a ruse. A twist to get Marion Cotillard to be the twist villain. This interpretation of Bane has no depth. Instead, we have another post 9/11 allegory character that goes on the cliched "I'm GOING TO BOMB THE CITY" tirade. We never got Che Guevara, we got a South Park terrorist in a funny mask.

Do you really think it was Occupy Gotham? You do know TDKR was shooting BEFORE Occupy Wall Street or did you know that and just decided to exaggerate to boost your point?

And yes, when I can say that I prefer TAS version of Joker and Catwoman to Burton, and you are clearly prefer TAS version of Bane to Nolan's, then yes we can get into specifics.

And I never once brought up Bane's origin. I brought up that Bane, in TAS, much like AA and AC, was made to look like a putz. Yes, a putz. He broke a car and beat up Croc, who was always a second-stringer on TAS? In TDKR he broke Batman, stole Batman's car(s) and enslaved a city to his will on it.

But that doesn't matter. At the end of the day, Bane is a lackey in TAS who goes down like a punk and is never brought back for a second episode, save for a dream sequence. He also (gasp!) took orders from a girl--though I will never understand why fanboys get so prissy about that. If you truly believer that is better, you are deluding yourself with hypocrisy and hate.

 

[BatLobster]

Stinger!!! WHOOOOOOO!

Nice post DA.

 

[shauner111]

I think BTAS Bane sucks, i dont like it. Just like you think TDKR sucks milost.

Yes, they could have done the prison origin. They dont need to get into the rats. But that doesn't even matter.

 

[DACrowe]

He is still a lot closer to comic book Bane than Nolan's Bane. He is essentially everything Nolan's Bane should have been. Still has everything from the comics that people loved about Bane, but also fits perfectly in with the mercenary/militaristic tone Nolan was going for.

Thank you!

You see, I know we strongly disagree on the movie, but goddamit if I couldn't hug you for just pointing out what I've been saying for several days and been attacked for with intense fan hate.

It takes from both. The mask, the venom, the voice, are all from the comics. But the militaristic approach, which is also appearing now in the comics, is clearly inspired in part by the Nolan film.

I feel better now.

 

[milost]

You really can't be this far in denial, can you?

Beyond the jacket (BTW I notice you intentionally picked the wrong one for your comparison):

We've already seen your posts with the leather jacket comparisons. Read what I typed. THAT. IS. ALL. YOU. HAVE.

I'm not in denial and didn't intentionally do anything. You have the leather jacket, that's all. I simply posted another look that each character takes on . . . and the two of them look NOTHING alike.

Other than his mask and Venom dispenser (which are very much from the comics), his costume his HEAVILY influenced by Rises.

Where's the black shoulder pad on TDKR Bane? How come TDKR Bane has brown and greens while Origins Bane is the traditional silver and black?

Where are Hardy's venom tubes protruding out of his collar bone? Where are those canisters on Hardy's belt? Where are Hardy's steel knuckled gloves? Where are Hardy's straps for the VENOM TANK on his back? Hmmmmm.

So what is the similarity? Straps. Lots and lots of "tactical" straps.

Well, this stupid biggin has em too,

Look at that. Straps on his belt, straps on his torso, straps on his shoulder. Even has the rustic colors, no?

He is wearing military gear and a military styled vest in the above pictures not unlike this.

Now as you astutely point out Bane in the comics dresses like this:
The black vest has always been there. So have the gloves (and venom).

That ain't no black vest. That is the spandexed costume of a luchadore or pro wrestler. Or:

It's a black vest, just like this is a black vest.

(with that stupid pump on the front . . . WITH STRAPS)





In those comics, Batman isn't wearing "spandex". There are numerous explanations of what goes on behind that standard, leotard. Kevlar, fire resistant fabric, plating, etc. Essentially what ever the story calls for. In some comics, Superman isn't wearing "spandex" or a strongman duds. It's the material from his home planet, Krypton.

That simplified look makes them easier to draw and more identifiable. They're not REALISTIC, 3D characters made by a video game company using a highly detailed engine. Unless you're Rob Liefeld (who was obsessed with frivolous "tactical" straps and ammo belts) in the comic field, you STRIP down your character. Even now, Batman's "armor" or Superman's "armor" is represented with simple lines. LINES.

Bane? Bane in that story is not a freaking wrestler just like Batman isn't a ballerina wearing ridiculous underwear outside his pants. They're anatomically perfect, idealized, 2D characters on a page. That look with the mask, the simple vest, the boots, is Bane's character model. Inspired by those wrestlers, perhaps but in the comic world, he's the Arkham Origins one, sans jacket.



More recent comics? Here is your damn TDKR influence,

Same color scheme (no longer black and silver). Same shaped brown and silver chest armor. There you go. He's even reaching out to you for you to take him away. Go on.

The level of denial in this thread is staggering when you cannot tell the difference between a vest and a pro-wrestler's V-shirt, uni-pants tights.

Are we in denial or are you just obsessed with Nolan and looking for anything you can to say, "oh hey, that great interpretation sorta, kinda borrowed from TDKR. Hardy Bane must be good too".

Let's say everything you say is true and WB Montreal ran out of theaters in 2012, and were like, "WE ARE INSPIRED, WE MUST ADAPT NOLAN'S FANTASTIC BANE".

Still doesn't change the fact that Origins Bane is closer to his comic counterpart that has a better characterization. It still doesn't change the fact that ALL the characters in Arkham Origins are completely revamped in characterization and character design from their Rocksteady counterparts. Joker isn't a Ledger Joker rip off. Hell, Harley, Barbara and other characters who Nolan didn't even touch are improved.


You can have the alternate "Dark Knight" black suit skin in the game. You can have the fact that it looks like a helmet just like the TDK suit. You can have the little pop up Batsuit armory vault. Hell, I'll even give you the stupid waterfall in the batcave (which wasn't even a first). You're not getting Bane though, other than the jacket.

Do you really think it was Occupy Gotham? You do know TDKR was shooting BEFORE Occupy Wall Street or did you know that and just decided to lie to boost your point?

That's how I refer to it. YES DACrowe, I know that was one of the things the almighty Christopher Nolan thought up first. Yes, I know TDKR was scripted and such before 1% vs 99% occurred. Yes I knew that Anne Hathaway was amongst them.

That's all I referred to it as.

Bane's "revolution" still never lived up to all those propaganda props that were scattered across New York and Pittsburgh. Or the maps. Or the Tale of Two City quotes. Or the the advertisements and promotion of the movie. Maybe if that "western civilization" crap Bane was spewing actually revolved around a real motive that wasn't, "I'M GOING TO BLOW MYSELF UP WITH THE CITY SO YOU FEEL THE FIRE BATMEN", then it might have been compelling. It wasn't.

And yes, when I can say that I prefer TAS version of Joker and Catwoman to Burton, and you are clearly prefer TAS version of Bane to Nolan's, then yes we can get into specifics.

I'm sure you do.

I definitely think the animated series Bane, for what it was, compared to Nolan's Bane, for what it was, is better. Nolan Bane is simply a poorly defined allegory, a suicide bomber with a terrible motive just as Burton's Catwoman is simply "a fed up secretary turned supernatural zombie with 9 lives".

Still, I'd say BTAS Joker, Catwoman and Penguin have more in common with their film counter parts (Jack Napier, Blond, Duck riding mutant) than Origins Bane has with Nolan's Mr. Clean.

And I never once brought up Bane's origin. I brought up that Bane, in TAS, much like AA and AC, was made to look like a putz. Yes, a putz. He broke a car and beat up Croc, who was always a second-stringer on TAS?

In an animated series primarily watched by children . . .

- had the prison origin (only man to escape for 25+ years)
- frightened Batman, Robin and Alfred

- all the other things I mentioned


Superficial and childish? Sure. But how much should one expect from the animated series, for a then new comic book character? It's a solid adaptation for what it was. What it wasn't was a feature length film like,

In TDKR he broke Batman, stole Batman's car(s) and enslaved a city to his will on it.

- wasn't sentenced to hell for a crime his mercenary father committed
- murky backstory
- didn't have the strength to escape the pit
- had to be saved
- utilized as simply a plot device to trick the audience into a pointless twist
- no honor, morals
- another cliched, "EVIL" (or in this case, "necessary evil"), mustache twirling villain
- no plans for a real revolution, something that would actually be compelling. He really wants to blow himself up with the city
- a suicide bomber that is doing this for the little girl and her father that despised him
- cries and goes out with a whimper when he puts a SHOTGUN to Batman's head
- quipped and made light of when he's literally thrown aside, out of the story
- sounds hilarious (we can say all we want about "luchador masks" and wrestling get ups. Atleast whatever Bane "sounded" like in our heads was better than Hardy's hammy, razzie worthy performance

But that doesn't matter. At the end of the day, Bane is a lackey in TAS who goes down like a punk and is never brought back for a second episode, save for a dream sequence. If you truly believer that is better, you are deluding yourself with hypocrisy and hate.

Maybe just as good.

Still, the crux of the argument was Comic Bane (Knightfall, Vengeance of Bane) and Origins Bane which are a helluva lot better than TDKR Bane.

 

[BatLobster]

You try to speak for everyone by taking a dump on Hardy's performance and saying things like "sounded better in OUR heads". But even guys like The Joker and Shika, who agree with you about the characterization don't go that far and seem to actually enjoy Hardy's portrayal, just not the writing choices for his backstory and motivation.

I don't see why this always has to be such a black and white "us vs them" type of thing. The funny thing about TDKR is that when you get right down to it even its critics don't agree with each other about a bunch of stuff. But that all gets swept under the rug for the most part because of a shared hatred/disgust/frustration/whatever you want to call it with of the movie.

So yeah, I think sometimes "us vs them" mentality often ends up being highly reductive and detrimental to the discussion.

And razzie worthy...le sigh.

 

[Travesty]

"Tactical straps"

 

[The Joker]

I was going to respond to DACrowe's post, but milost has beaten me to it

More recent comics? Here is your damn TDKR influence,

Same color scheme (no longer black and silver). Same shaped brown and silver chest armor. There you go. He's even reaching out to you for you to take him away. Go on.

 

[DACrowe]

You try to speak for everyone by taking a dump on Hardy's performance and saying things like "sounded better in OUR heads". But even guys like The Joker and Shika, who agree with you about the characterization don't go that far and seem to actually enjoy Hardy's portrayal, just not the writing choices for his backstory and motivation.

I don't see why this always has to be such a black and white "us vs them" type of thing. The funny thing about TDKR is that when you get right down to it even its critics don't agree with each other about a bunch of stuff. But that all gets swept under the rug for the most part because of a shared hatred/disgust/frustration/whatever you want to call it with of the movie.

So yeah, I think sometimes "us vs them" mentality often ends up being highly reductive and detrimental to the discussion.

And razzie worthy...le sigh.

I don't know why I try sometimes. It is like running your head into a wall. But I cannot help but walk into it when some posters can reliably spew nothing but vitriolic hate every day of the week for years about a movie they purportedly do not care for, yet cannot resist going 24 hours without obsessing over. I am sure I will be taking my crazy pills again in a little bit, but at this point, when reading about razzes and a troll stating his opinion as the majority about a movie with universal critical acclaim and massive general audience fandom, all I can say is that the bottle feels empty at this point.

 

[milost]

I don't know why I try sometimes. It is like running your head into a wall. But I cannot help but walk into it when some posters can reliably spew nothing but vitriolic hate every day of the week for years about a movie they purportedly do not care for, yet cannot resist going 24 hours without obsessing over. I am sure I will be taking my crazy pills again in a little bit, but at this point, when reading about razzes and a troll stating his opinion as the majority about a movie with universal critical acclaim and massive general audience fandom, all I can say is that the bottle feels empty at this point.

 

[shauner111]

Milost's obsession with hating this movie is actually a little creepy

It really is a 24/7 obsession month in, month out. Im sure he'll continue for years when new posters/defenders are here to defend the movie.

Atleast whatever Bane "sounded" like in our heads was better than Hardy's hammy, razzie worthy performance

And that's a razzie worthy performance? No other actor expresses themselves with their eyes like Mr. Hardy.

 

[milost]

No other actor expresses themselves with their eyes like Mr. Hardy.

*takes another gulp of my Vitriolic Haterade*

He has a big stupid tarantula jock strap on his face. I would certainly hope he could emote something like looking left and right and getting wide eyed with that thing!

 

[Travesty]

 

[shauner111]

*takes another gulp of my Vitriolic Haterade*

He has a big stupid tarantula jock strap on his face. I would certainly hope he could emote something like looking left and right and getting wide eyed with that thing!

If that's all you think he does, then you don't know a single thing about acting. Or maybe you simply need to watch more of his work. Im sure you can ask anybody in the business, and they'll tell you that Tom is all about the expressions in the eyes and his body language. This is why Nolan didn't cast some muscular guy for the role. He cast Hardy because he had a mask strapped to his face and needed an actor who can express himself through his eyes and voice of course.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I enjoyed Hardy's performance for the most part, especially when he was hamming it up on top of the camo Tumbler:

"BEHIND YOU stands a symbol of oppression."

"....The Peeeople....."

 

[Travesty]

"Dur purple"

 

[milost]

If that's all you think he does, then you don't know a single thing about acting.

I KNEW you'd post that. t:

Tell me, what do you know about acting, friend?

Or maybe you simply need to watch more of his work.

I have.

Bane is far from his best work, not with the likes of Bronson or Warrior under his belt. THOSE were great performances. For Bane, he practically pulled his Star Trek performance out of his arse and did it with a dumb mask on his head. Being a brit then changing your British accent to a more over the top one is hardly "nuanced". I'm not even insulting "Mr. Hardy". I'm sure he can live with someone out there, on a message board, riffing on his performance as that over the top, comic book villain he was. I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank. He doesn't need some TDKR fanboys to come to his rescue, I think he'll live.

Besides, if I look it at TDKR Bane in a different light (a more comical one), I DO get legitimate entertainment out of it. There's no doubt that he's highly quotable with "OV CAWSE" and "DA FIRA RISEZ".

Sure you can ask anybody in the business, and they'll tell you that Tom is all about the expressions in the eyes and his body language. This is why Nolan didn't cast some muscular guy for the role. He cast Hardy because he had a mask strapped to his face and needed an actor who can express himself through his eyes and voice of course.

The Rock could have done what he did with that mask and those eyes. Have Sean Connery come in for a little ADR session and it's basically the same.

I love how you seem to think this TDKR Bane is some high brow art. That's half the reason some of us come in here and continue to "hate". There are two sides to everything. You think this movie and the character of Bane are out of this world . . . and we don't. Now maybe my little tirades (which have been in jest for most of today) are a bit much. But there is always going to be the flip side of that where you guys will make your long essays about how brilliant this all is. Ying and Yang and all that. When can we just agree that it's just a movie and we're all going to have varying opinions on the subject. As long as we're all here, we're going to have to put up with each other.

 

[The Joker]

*takes another gulp of my Vitriolic Haterade*

He has a big stupid tarantula jock strap on his face. I would certainly hope he could emote something like looking left and right and getting wide eyed with that thing!

Oh milost you are a tonic around here. Not only are your posts insightful and well written, but they are hilarious, too.

 

[milost]

I enjoyed Hardy's performance for the most part, especially when he was hamming it up on top of the camo Tumbler:

"BEHIND YOU stands a symbol of oppression."

"....The Peeeople....."

Out of the entire movie, that's my favorite scene with Bane. I mean, I hate the plot/story of it (him reading the letter) but his gestures and speech are funny as hell.

"and we give tem tew u, da peeeeepl"

*head bobs*

"Gotham is yaaawss"

That image of him on top of the Tumbler in the coat is the one that was most impressionable to me. That's why I find that coat so iconic. I was legitimately excited back in the day too when we saw it was a Harvey Dent photo that he was ripping to shreds. I remember those pics leaking of him in Pittsburgh where he was waving to the couple that just got married. Now every time I see that, and the performance, I can picture them off to the side, waving.

 

[milost]

Oh milost you are a tonic around here. Not only are your posts insightful and well written, but they are hilarious, too.

There's got to be a balance.

I felt pretty depressed/disgusted with myself going on and on about vests and jackets you know? I just sat back and thought, "man, what am I doing". Occasionally, we've got to lighten the mood in here.