Dozens feared dead after truck strikes crowd in Nice, France

[Thundercrack85]

I don't know how you just arrest and hold people for being related to other people. With no evidence of criminal activity. Unless you are going to lie like Guantanamo Bay.

Hey, we've proven that that works. Well, the detaining people without due process. Not so much anything good coming out of that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hey, we've proven that that works. Well, the detaining people without due process. Not so much anything good coming out of that.

Yep. Sorry for torturing you guy who did nothing wrong, we got some bad intel from another guy we tortured.

 

[Victarion]

I don't know how you just arrest and hold people for being related to other people. With no evidence of criminal activity. Unless you are going to lie like Guantanamo Bay.

I wouldn't lie outright, but arrest isn't the right word. Arrest brings to mind bottlenecks of people looking to see what's going on, news anchors jockeying for a position to get the scoop on what's going on. Instead, make it stealthy extraction. In terms of wording it all, I would suggest wording that makes it all very flexible, massaging the truth as needs be. However, since these people are likely innocent, I wouldn't want them kept in Gitmo-like conditions. That's flat-out appalling to even consider it for people that haven't done anything.

 

[moviedoors]

They have to care about something. That's the only thing that comes to mind.

It's hard to threaten people that venerate death and martyrdom.

 

[Donner]

Trump and Clinton just called in to Bill O'Reilly's show and all three agree that we are in a World War scenario and it's time to act.

Horrible thing to say. Playing right into the hands of these cowards. World war my ass.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wouldn't lie outright, but arrest isn't the right word. Arrest brings to mind bottlenecks of people looking to see what's going on, news anchors jockeying for a position to get the scoop on what's going on. Instead, make it stealthy extraction. In terms of wording it all, I would suggest wording that makes it all very flexible, massaging the truth as needs be. However, since these people are likely innocent, I wouldn't want them kept in Gitmo-like conditions. That's flat-out appalling to even consider it for people that haven't done anything.

If you are taking them against their will and holding them, that is an arrest. Also blows my mind that you suggest that for people you believe are probably innocent.

 

[Sithborg]

Jesus H Crackers.

What people are actually advocating in here is insane. The internment of the Japanese Americans was not right. Arresting/kidnapping from another nation innocents whose only crime would be to be related to a suspected terrorist is wrong.

 

[Donner]

Guys. Keep your heads. I'm not saying that France should sit idly by. Destroy ISIS. But making grand public statements about war turns cowards into soldiers and brings people to their cause. Extremism is one thing. War is another.

If it were me, I would pubicly make a statement about cowardice and the cost of such (like being bombed into oblivion), but I would not say anything about going to war. This isn't a war. France and any other Western country would destroy ISIS if it ever came to army vs. army. It's not even a question. ISIS followers are not soldiers. They have no code. No honour. They're pathetic weasels who use innocent lives as a means to incite war. Don't take the bait. It's one thing I'll say about Putin. He says few words but carpet bombs the **** out of the bastards. That is what is needed.

 

[terry78]

Nothing like an attack before an election to get your numbers up.

 

[Victarion]

This is a unique threat that needs rubbing out. I would keep it to targeting the individuals responsible. But, they keep blowing themselves up/pulping themselves/insert creative death here themselves. You need to give them a healthy fear for something that they care about if you want to combat them without a guns a-blazing approach. Its a bitter pill, and I don't like it anymore than you (though I'm not arguing for an imposition of privation or abuse on the detained parties).

I would suggest capital punishment for the guilty parties, but they keep dying on us.

 

[Sithborg]

You take away their recruiting pool. Which going after innocents won't do.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Jesus H Crackers.

What people are actually advocating in here is insane. The internment of the Japanese Americans was not right. Arresting/kidnapping from another nation innocents whose only crime would be to be related to a suspected terrorist is wrong.

Japanese Americans weren't bringing down buildings, blowing up concerts, shooting hundreds of people, and plowing into crowds on a regular basis.

Radical Islam is a real threat to the West.

Interning Muslims is just not a realistic proposition. And unless you intend to expel them from Europe Reconquista style, really not going to make much of a difference int he long run.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is a unique threat that needs rubbing out. I would keep it to targeting the individuals responsible. But, they keep blowing themselves up/pulping themselves/insert creative death here themselves. You need to give them a healthy fear for something that they care about if you want to combat them without a guns a-blazing approach. Its a bitter pill, and I don't like it anymore than you (though I'm not arguing for an imposition of privation or abuse on the detained parties).

I would suggest capital punishment for the guilty parties, but they keep dying on us.

Its not a bitter pill. It is downright wrong. It is like saying Japanese interment were a good idea. It also is counterproductive, as it basically justifies their holy war.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You solve nothing by harming innocent people. Is the death of these poor people not the perfect example of that?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I have mixed views on this. I know a lot of good people who are Muslim (though they would probably be in trouble back in the Middle East for not being religious enough). But I cannot pretend this isn't a religious issue.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have mixed views on this. I know a lot of good people who are Muslim (though they would probably be in trouble back in the Middle East for not being religious enough). But I cannot pretend this isn't a religious issue.

It is a "holy war", of course it is a religious thing. It is things like this that gives me my disdain for religion. It is used to justify the most horrible acts.

 

[Victarion]

War makes the situation less objective and more subjective. They already seem to have their justification - otherwise I don't think you'd see incidents like this one, or the prior ones we've heard about this year. I would say use your intel to figure out where these groups have their bases situated - the places they run back to when you uproot them from a given location; then do a mass airstrike that bombs each of these bases at the same time to throw them off balance.

However, you have to consider the civilian casualties that could come from this, and that makes it a much less palatable solution for me (so the detainment becomes the "good" choice, if you want to keep viewing this through a simple mindset). I think Hillary might see the value in it though, given the stances she put forth in one of her earlier debates with Bernie - and that's why I'm backing her. At the end of the day, I'm playing armchair general. Hillary has the experience to know what needs doing, and behaviors that some have criticizes as "warhawkish" may be the best course in dealing with this thread.

 

[childeroland]

These people are already killing many of their own kind. They're not going to stop if you lock up their families, and targeting innocent people will only increase their recruiting pool. Anyway, we kill families now with drone strikes, and that doesn't seem to slow them down.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Trump does not want to get into a war debate with Hilary. She is the definition of a Warhawk.

 

[Thundercrack85]

There is no way to stop this without violating civil liberties and profiling. That is just a reality.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There is no way to stop this without violating civil liberties and profiling. That is just a reality.

There is another way. Actual war. You send hundreds of thousands of legit troops to where we know they are, and you fight. Our soldiers, our tech, we'd destroy them. Would we lose lives? Yes, quite a few. We also wouldn't snuff out all terrorist attacks. But in an actual war, we'd destroy them, rather quickly really.

 

[Sundancer]

Watchmen. Just as relevant today as when it first came out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Watchmen. Just as relevant today as when it first came out.

The comic, not the movie. Snyder kind of missed the point, but yeah.

 

[Donner]

Just don't call it war. I don't understand people. Obama could send thousands of troops to Syria and Iraq and all but squash ISIS, but unless he makes public declarations about going to war with Radical Islam, no one will care about his actual actions.

People are dumb. Hunt the bastards. Make them pay. But for God's sake, choose your words carefully in public.

 

[Thundercrack85]

There is another way. Actual war. You send hundreds of thousands of legit troops to where we know they are, and you fight. Our soldiers, our tech, we'd destroy them. Would we lose lives? Yes, quite a few. We also wouldn't snuff out all terrorist attacks. But in an actual war, we'd destroy them, rather quickly really.

The Paris and Brussels attacks were carried out by Muslims born in Europe. The San Bernardino and Orlando shooters was born in America (well, the wife was from Saudi Arabia). This guy was a Tunisian. How is a war going to stop these radicals already in our midst?