Eddie brock's character arc

[WolfCypher]

In a perfect, hypothetical world, Lance Bannon would have been Venom. Or maybe Venom would have been some vengeful woman. And Marvel still would have overused and destroyed Venom.



Fact is, Venom's origins and Eddie's motivations is not what ruined Venom. Many classic villains started off with bad origins and weak reasonings, but what was done with the villains in further stories is what made them legendary.



Dr. Doom, for instance, has a very corny background and reason for hating Reed. Come to think of it, isn't Doom's hatred for Reed just as irrational as Eddie hating Spider-Man in the comics? Doom's experiment bows up in his face due to his own mistake, and he puts that blame on Reed Richards. His origin is convoluted (involving devils and sorcery and family betrayal) and his hatred for Reed is laughable, but what makes Doom badass is that over the years, he was handled well.



Dr. Doom came from a bad origin and became a killer villain.



So I understand when the Venom anti-fans express disdain for Venom. Trust me, I do. I just hate it when people say "Venom sucks because his origins and motivations are lame". No, that is not what made Venom bad. A character is only as good as how the writers make him. No one cared that Venom's motivations were 'weak' during the late 80s-early 90s, because the stories were good. What made Venom bad was what writers established later & did to him, and how Marvel decided to use him. If Venom had retained his classic style, he would be better perceived now.

Had to repost that. I'm not saying Venom's history wasn't bad, or his motivations weren't good (though I and Airwolf both agree that while you can say Eddie hating someone for his own problems is dumb, it IS real). What I'm asm saying is this:

People need to get past that.

Venom could have had the stupidest origins in history, and if his writig and stories had stayed good for many, many years, people would love him.

Same with the people saying "Venom shoulda been that pregnant chick/the symbiote should have left Eddie like planned"...we still don't know how well liked Venom would have been among the fans, or how Marvel would have handled the character. Venom in any form could have still sucked. That's a hypothetical thought, there's no way to know if the road not taken almost twenty years ago would have been better or worse.

Personally, the how "Spider-Man killed my husband and made me miscarriage" angle the female Venom would have been driven by is just as good or just as bad as Eddie blaming Spider-Man on his ruined career and lost of everything. Both characters would have been last minute introductions, with neither character having any history with Spider-Man. And David Michelinie said madness would have kept female's Venom's hatred going; same with Eddie.

I also find it funny how people say that it would have been better if Michelinie did kill off Brock and kept the symbiote alive for later stories like he had wanted (I agree, ONLY because of what was in store for Venom later on by keeping him alive...Marvel deconstruction of his character). It's funny because these are the same people who don't like Gargan/Venom...we have a new Venom, and Brock is on death's door, and you guys aren't happy. So would you really had been happy with Brock's death and a new Venom back in the early 90s like planned?

Anyway, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking "Venom's origins in the comics were perfect", just that "a bad origin does not automatically mean the character is bad." Bad writing and bad handling, years & years of this, is what made Venom bad.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Anyway, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking "Venom's origins in the comics were perfect", just that "a bad origin does not automatically mean the character is bad." Bad writing and bad handling, years & years of this, is what made Venom bad.

You got a valid point there.

 

[The Joker]

Anyway, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking "Venom's origins in the comics were perfect", just that "a bad origin does not automatically mean the character is bad." Bad writing and bad handling, years & years of this, is what made Venom bad.

Yes, but remember that the origin was the entire foundation for his hatred for Spidey. So, the fact is was based on delusional BS didn't help.

The best kind of personal conflicts between characters are those between characters who have a real connection, and a real basis for a feud. That's why I like Brock in this cartoon. He and Peter are connected, so we know their feud will be based on something real.

 

[Arcturus]

^

Well said.

 

[Arcturus]

Well, to get back on topic. Like I said many times before, this Eddie Brock is really a vast improvement on previous incarnations and it works. His friendship with Peter Parker, the development this character has had is working just fine. Yes, Eddie has been absent for a few episodes, but I'm sure he'll reappear again because he is an important aspect to the whole venom saga anyways. Greg Weisman knows this obviously, I wonder what he's got in store for Eddie.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well, to get back on topic. Like I said many times before, this Eddie Brock is really a vast improvement on previous incarnations and it works. His friendship with Peter Parker, the development this character has had is working just fine. Yes, Eddie has been absent for a few episodes, but I'm sure he'll reappear again because he is an important aspect to the whole venom saga anyways. Greg Weisman knows this obviously, I wonder what he's got in store for Eddie.

Agreed, though I love the original incranation of Eddie Brock as well. Anyway, this Eddie Brock seems happy on the outside, as I have said, but on the inside there seems to be a volcano and we all know what happens with volcanos, they erupt. so, I think the next time we do see Brock, he won't be like he was when we first saw him in the first episode. Last time we saw him, he seemed calm/happy/angry. Remember the look he gave Peter at the dance? He defenitley looked angry at Peter. He also seems to be fed up with Peter ever since "Natural Selection". Even though they talked in "Marketing Forces", they didn't talk much since then. Now, I think Brock might just go nuts on Peter becuase it seems as though Peter is sort of deviating from Gwen, in Brock's mind atleast. Could this be the cause of Brock's rage? I guess we'll find out real soon.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Well, to get back on topic. Like I said many times before, this Eddie Brock is really a vast improvement on previous incarnations and it works. His friendship with Peter Parker, the development this character has had is working just fine. Yes, Eddie has been absent for a few episodes, but I'm sure he'll reappear again because he is an important aspect to the whole venom saga anyways. Greg Weisman knows this obviously, I wonder what he's got in store for Eddie.

Yes he is a major upgrade from his comic counterpart. Honestly, I prefer this Eddie over the original, he just have the right stuff and his relationship with Peter is what I especially admire and it is what allows me to feel for the guy. Venom and Spidey fight will be more of an emotional conflict if they follow the natural rhythm of the chain of events.

 

[Don Yoyo]

He's either got anger issues, or thinks of Gwen as more than just a little sister type.

Well, the way I see it, he thinks of her like a little sister... but as an over-protective brother, the kind who can get violent if someone hurts her, even if the someone didn't want to hurt her (here, Peter, who is simply obnoxious of her feelings toward him and can't see her as someone else than his best friend...). The way he looked at Harry and Peter clearly showed that he really didn't like that attitude from them

but his hatred should be of spiderman, not peter. This should then reflect on the fact that spiderman IS peter parker which adds to it.

Well, this show mixes 616, Ultimate, movies and TAS influences for the origin of its characters, so it would not be that surprising that Eddie would get bad feelings toward Peter as his Utimate counterpart. Well, except that the two characters are nothink alike : Ultimate one is a "loser" while the one from the show seems quite the man : gifted in science, sport, got quite the nerve and courage without acting too much like a "hero" (even if I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's got some suicidal tendencies...).

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

If TAS could pull off Brock hating Spidey in like 2 stories, I don't see why SSM can't do a spectacular job with around 3. Especially since Brock will have a bigger part in this arc than he did in the TAS version of why he began to hate Spidey.

Of course, in this version it's Peter he hates not Spider-Man.

er, they started eddie's hatred for spidey from the very first episode and it was heavily developed until venom showed up...

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Ok, eddie wasn't even in the last episode...and spidey's donning the black suit next week, what gives?

Are people seriously happy that eddie's brock current development into venom solely consists of

running out to scoop a story
not replying to gwen's prom request

that's seriously a big joke. In 9 eps, that's all they have so far?

It wouldn't make sense for eddie's hatred to come out of anything the symbiote influenced spidey did because he'd be influenced hatred and not a genuine detest.

That sounds weak...

 

[Webhead2006]

there is 3 episodes before eddie becomes venom so he is bound to be an important part within the arc and his hatred for peter and spidey can easily grow more.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

but it's clear his hatred will be of a symbiote infected parker/spiderman

don't you think it makes the venom character.....hypocritical considering how the symbiote affects him.

the venom character is supposed to be a complete symbiosis of characters with equal hatred of both aspects of peter parker/spiderman making them more deadly as a whole.

if eddie hates parker/spiderman based on actions under the influence of the symbiote, it further dilutes him even more.

it's like Jonah hating masked men and then donning one himself.

 

[Webhead2006]

well we dont know how things are going to play out so we should just wait and see.

 

[DACrowe]

I'd agree. While there has been very little Brock since the Rhino episode, which disappoints me, they have three episodes to build him up, which if Harry's arc is any indication it can be a lot. While TAS may have developed him up more to the Symbiote Saga to become Venom, SSM is taking three episodes instead of two to tell the symbiote side of things.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

I'm not worry as to how the will play up Eddie's hate. I just can't wait to see it. In the cast & crews own words, things are going to get "dark" in this last story arc.

 

[Arcturus]

Well I went to Greg Weisman's website and posted a few questions regarding the whereabouts of Brock. Hopefully, he answers soon.

But as I've said, I really like how Brock has been handled so far. And I can't wait to see further developments.

 

[Webzpinner]

No word or hints yet of Gwen getting killed, which rather surprises me. I was almost positive Goblin was going to do something that would end with Gwen getting the old "X.x" eyes...

I'm almost certain though, that Brock's final turn to the dark side will be due to Pete's careless adolescent behavior towards Gwen. Brock may not have a lot of lines in the cartoons, but his pissed glances speak volumes. He cares for Gwen tremendously (probably as a little sister) and I'm sure we'll learn the exact nature of their relationship before too long.

If it is Gwen's death that galvanizes Brock's hatred, then I can actually see a perfectly legit reason for the hatred towards both Peter and Spider-Man, and one you add the emotion-magnifying symbiote, Brock will be a serious character... It would basically give Venom the Jackal's motivation.

My only hopes are they don't kill him (which they haven't killed a character yet), and they don't EVER bring about Carnage.

 

[Venom 1988]

No word or hints yet of Gwen getting killed, which rather surprises me. I was almost positive Goblin was going to do something that would end with Gwen getting the old "X.x" eyes...

I'm almost certain though, that Brock's final turn to the dark side will be due to Pete's careless adolescent behavior towards Gwen. Brock may not have a lot of lines in the cartoons, but his pissed glances speak volumes. He cares for Gwen tremendously (probably as a little sister) and I'm sure we'll learn the exact nature of their relationship before too long.

If it is Gwen's death that galvanizes Brock's hatred, then I can actually see a perfectly legit reason for the hatred towards both Peter and Spider-Man, and one you add the emotion-magnifying symbiote, Brock will be a serious character...

My only hopes are they don't kill him (which they haven't killed a character yet), and they don't EVER bring about Carnage.

Im not expecting Gwen to die until the straight to DVDs at least, and that wont be until after the 5th season

 

[Anwar]

Yep, she isn't going to die in this series. Not until the DVD movies anyways.

And if she does die there, it'll likely not matter much to Eddie by that point because he'll either have been killed off or too insane to care about his old life anymore.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Yep, she isn't going to die in this series. Not until the DVD movies anyways.

And if she does die there, it'll likely not matter much to Eddie by that point because he'll either have been killed off or too insane to care about his old life anymore.

Quiet right. But even if they did want to kill Gwen off, could do they really do that on Tv? Isn't there some sort of restriction or anything to show actual death?

Seeing as how they have handled pretty much every episode well, I have no doubt that they could muster up something much more believable for Eddie.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

death is fine, characters have died on legion of superheroes and also The batman, good/bad and innocent characters...

 

[November Rain]

Alright one ep to go till venom shows up at the end so far we have this....

He was annoyed at pete for taking pictures of his boss while in sticky situation twice.

once with lizard and another time with the symbiote.

That seems to be the be and and end all of harry's motivations.

He feels betrayed that the person he's 'looked' after doesnt have any moral fibre.

Now pete hasn't been directly responsible or influenced eddie's life in any way. He hasn't gotten him sacked or attacked or hurt or ruined his career or rep or embarassed him at all. neither has spidey.

Is eddie seeing peter as an opportunist enough to carry his half of venom?

or is the symbiote going to take its hatred and basically make eddie seem like he hates parker more.

I always assumed the hatred was fairly 50/50 but I can't see it here and feel they should have given eddie something more substantial, especially with his comic history already showing it wasn't anything big to turn him.

 

[AIRWOLF]

He definitely needs more reason to become a full-fledged Venom. Although next episode is about Pete fighting the alien, it can't be for full 20 minutes. There needs to be more Eddie in the next and not just quick glimpses of him.

 

[Anwar]

Maybe they'd have been better off making Eddie a semi-friendly rival of Peter's instead of a close friend (that was Harry's schtick) so the animosity would more naturally flow.

 

[AIRWOLF]

What I think they're trying to do is make Eddie into an Anti-Hero, imo. It is very much possible that this new Venom may not even want to kill Spider-Man, just see him as a criminal. But than that wouldn't really work out too well in the long run.

Yes, that would have been nice, making him a friendly rival. But they wanted to make him to be much more closer to Peter so to make the conflict that much more emotional. Eddie's reason for being angry at Peter are justified but his reasons for being Venom are still left out in the dark.