Justice League Ezra Miller Is The Flash - Part 2

[Matt Parker]

I don't want to be an a$$hole and rain on the parade here, but I'm not thrilled with The Flash so far. Most of his jokes have fallen flat for me, and he just feels cringe. Plus, I just don't like his suit design at all. It doesn't look immediately recognizable as the Flash in the same way that the tv suit (especially the revamped Season 4 one) does.
Again, I'm not crapping on those who are enjoying this take, just stating my opinion.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I don't want to be an a$$hole and rain on the parade here, but I'm not thrilled with The Flash so far. Most of his jokes have fallen flat for me, and he just feels cringe. Plus, I just don't like his suit design at all. It doesn't look immediately recognizable as the Flash in the same way that the tv suit (especially the revamped Season 4 one) does.
Again, I'm not crapping on those who are enjoying this take, just stating my opinion.

Why so afraid?? When did it become a bad thing to criticize something you don't like?? It's all cool.

You are always free to express your opinion. The difference in opinion is what all the discussions so much fun, innit?? It's an open forum so fire away.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I don't want to be an a$$hole and rain on the parade here, but I'm not thrilled with The Flash so far. Most of his jokes have fallen flat for me, and he just feels cringe. Plus, I just don't like his suit design at all. It doesn't look immediately recognizable as the Flash in the same way that the tv suit (especially the revamped Season 4 one) does.
Again, I'm not crapping on those who are enjoying this take, just stating my opinion.

Ehhhhhhhhh I don't know about that

 

[Spider-jedi]

Why so afraid?? When did it become a bad thing to criticize something you don't like?? It's all cool.

You are always free to express your opinion. The difference in opinion is what all the discussions so much fun, innit?? It's an open forum so fire away.

i criticize back in the part 1 of the thread and i was crucified for it. the fact is some people cant stand when you don't see things their way. that been said, i as well dont like the look of the suit. it looks busy for the sake of busy IMO. still not a fan of the lighting been blue and not yellow. I know ezra is a decent actor and i can tell hes having fun with the role but please that suit needs to go away far. i hate it as much as the captain america suit from the first avenger movie

this is all my opinion. Don't start calling me names people

 

[Consona]

 

[Blitzkrieg]

i criticize back in the part 1 of the thread and i was crucified for it. the fact is some people cant stand when you don't see things their way. that been said, i as well dont like the look of the suit. it looks busy for the sake of busy IMO. still not a fan of the lighting been blue and not yellow. I know ezra is a decent actor and i can tell hes having fun with the role but please that suit needs to go away far. i hate it as much as the captain america suit from the first avenger movie

this is all my opinion. Don't start calling me names people

You can state all of your opinions. Whether it's good, bad or indifferent doesn't matter, just feel free to share your thoughts. Plus, when you post something it is already implied that it's your opinion and you aren't trying to force it on anyone. But as it's an open forum, other posters can also pick your posts and counter your points. It can lead to insightful and cogent arguments.

So don't feel bad if someone disagrees with you because it's nothing personal. We are all passionate fans and even if we vehemently disagree on some topic, we can still remain friendly and co-opeartive.

BTdubz, I hated the suit in the beginning when the first poster was released during SDCC '16. I didn't like it at all. But I have come to terms with it and understand the mechanics behind this particular design choice. The suit is busy and cluttered and it doesn't look very good in close-shots. But in some of the footage and clips, it's looked gorgeous to me. So, I'm still 50/50 on it. I can only hope it looks amazing on the big screen and iirc, there is gonna be a new Flash suit in JL. Maybe a gift from Bruce Wayne. Anyway, I hope Flash does some awesome stuff in the movie.

 

[ironman29758]

Silver Age Barry Allen was often written to be a fairly funny guy with a bit of a soft spot for heroism. He sort of wore his heart on his sleeve a bit, and had fun being a hero. Not surprisingly, that's where Geoff Johns has gotten a lot of his inspiration over the years. And that's found it's way here as well.

In many ways, this is basically a younger take on that. Does the character have elements that comic books fans traditionally associate with Wally West?

To a point, but "being funny sometimes" and "hero worship" are not traits that are unique to Wally West in the least.

The Flash is probably the closest major character that the DC Universe has to Marvels Spider-Man. If there's someone cracking wise and having fun doing what he does, it's him. He can afford to much of the time, and he genuinely enjoys what he gets to do. Maybe even more than Superman.

Barry isn't using one kind of humor in the clips we've seen, either. He's just an all around charming guy, which naturally translates into some humor in the interactions he has. I very much doubt, based on his room full of tech, that that is ALL he will be. He's clearly very intelligent, capable, and driven. He seems to have some angst, as well.

But ask yourself: Whether this is spot on to what the character Barry Allen has traditionally been...does the portrayal serve the character, and make sense for what a man with the monikor of "The Flash" should be?

I very much think it does, from the slightly manic speech pattern, a touch of absentmindedness, and rapid changes in focus and mood (which make perfect sense for a man living life faster than everyone else) to his very earnest nature. The earnestness is what I'm noticing more than the inherent humor in the lines actually, and that's pretty much pure Barry.

Every Justice League member's humor seems informed by their nature. Barry's humor comes from his sort of fanboy earnestness...Bruce's comes from his stocism and being a man of few words, Aquaman's seems to rely on subverting his seemingly regal, stoic and badass nature, etc.

it sort of barry in name only. he's more like the wally west flash from JL and JLU cartoon.

I honestly disagree with the whole "Ezra is Barry in Name Only". While Ezra Barry serves the same purpose of JL Wally(the rookie/comedic role), He definitely seems like he is playing on the core Barry characteristics in a Ezra fashion(how Barry is always fashionable late in the scene with Commissioner Gordon, his fanboy/comic loving persona, the absentmindness, the scientist, and his everyman nature).

I think it's always interesting in Barry is depicted as having a sense of humor, they assumed they take that element from Wally(I can see elements like the overeating, or speed force since that is specifically objects created during Wally's time, but they seem to act like Barry is a character completely devoid of humor, as opposed to creators taking some of Barry's elements and finding new ways to modernize/expand on his character). I always keep getting reminded of this quote by Greg Weisman:
While a good description of Barry's personality and his sense of humor would be this:

"For Barry, I think it's VERY safe to say that the Wally West of JL and JLU had pretty much NO influence on us. Cuz, you know, we were doing WALLY in the show too.
But Cary Bates, who wrote a huge chunk of Barry's adventures before Crisis on Infinite Earths, is one of my best friends, and he always made Barry a little goofy. A little bit of the boy scout, who still had that Flash fanboy in him, i.e. the guy who was inspired by Jay Garrick. We made that literal in our series... and we extended it into his personality. He likes catchphrases, even if he knows they make his wife and friends groan. He's a goody-two shoes and a happily married man and a scientist and a forensics expert and generally this slow, methodical but deeply honest guy, who likes his life and so is pretty at ease with his own sappiness.
He's NOT a smart-ass, which of course, Wally can be at times. And personally I don't think we portrayed him AT ALL like Wally.
But it's out there. If that's what you saw, we'll just have to agree to disagree."
-Greg Weisman

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=18093

While I do agree not every scene hit like Ezra intended, and can feel forced(I did groan at the bat signal scene but loved the "I'm in/I need friends" and the scene with Commissioner Gordon), I think it is Ezra more imbuing himself in the role if anything. I can't see Wally in cartoon or comics, being the first to eagerly join the Justice League simply because he needs friends, or being the last to run off feeling that League running off without saying a word is "rude". The sense of humor might be similar, but the personality behind it is completely different.

You can state all of your opinions. Whether it's good, bad or indifferent doesn't matter, just feel free to share your thoughts. Plus, when you post something it is already implied that it's your opinion and you aren't trying to force it on anyone. But as it's an open forum, other posters can also pick your posts and counter your points. It can lead to insightful and cogent arguments.

So don't feel bad if someone disagrees with you because it's nothing personal. We are all passionate fans and even if we vehemently disagree on some topic, we can still remain friendly and co-opeartive.

BTdubz, I hated the suit in the beginning when the first poster was released during SDCC '16. I didn't like it at all. But I have come to terms with it and understand the mechanics behind this particular design choice. The suit is busy and cluttered and it doesn't look very good in close-shots. But in some of the footage and clips, it's looked gorgeous to me. So, I'm still 50/50 on it. I can only hope it looks amazing on the big screen and iirc, there is gonna be a new Flash suit in JL. Maybe a gift from Bruce Wayne. Anyway, I hope Flash does some awesome stuff in the movie.

I agree with the above post, despite all the arguing and disagreeing with each other, there should be no reason we should at least be amicable and not result to belittling each other in order to get our points across. We all care about the material the companies in order to create these adaptions. We may agree or disagree if the adaption is warranted, but at the end of the day, the discussion always makes it fun to talk about.

Honestly I think the costume works, especially after seeing it in action with the trailers and clips. I feel like just like the Flash tv series costume, it takes the New 52 costume (and in some sense the Injustice look) as the basis for it's design and tried to build on the ideas and look created there. While the tv show took the look and adapted in one way using a more leather design, Zack decided to flesh out the idea that Manapul and Buccellato started that Barry used multiple metal plates in order to conduct the Speed Force energy that the Flash costume is composed of. (Only with metal used by NASA space shuttle and high-tensile wires to conduct the electricity).

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I agree with the above post, despite all the arguing and disagreeing with each other, there should be no reason we should at least be amicable and not result to belittling each other in order to get our points across. We all care about the material the companies in order to create these adaptions. We may agree or disagree if the adaption is warranted, but at the end of the day, the discussion always makes it fun to talk about.

Honestly I think the costume works, especially after seeing it in action with the trailers and clips. I feel like just like the Flash tv series costume, it takes the New 52 costume (and in some sense the Injustice look) as the basis for it's design and tried to build on the ideas and look created there. While the tv show took the look and adapted in one way using a more leather design, Zack decided to flesh out the idea that Manapul and Buccellato started that Barry used multiple metal plates in order to conduct the Speed Force energy that the Flash costume is composed of. (Only with metal used by NASA space shuttle and high-tensile wires to conduct the electricity).

There is a method to this madness. I quite like the idea that Barry created a suit out of spare parts from NASA's space shuttle. It's not supposed to look like a finished job. I like the contrast how he's a the only one with a makeshift costume among the League members. The idea of using the conducting wires is an interesting one and while the hard science behind it may make a whole lot of sense, I do think the aesthetic Snyder & Co decided to go with will find many detractors. I was one of them and I still am to an extent. But I can't deny that Zack is using some fascinating ideas here.

I remember someone working behind the scenes talk about red-shifts and blue-shifts with regards to Flash. I wonder how the Doppler effect will come in to play.

 

[ironman29758]

There is a method to this madness. I quite like the idea that Barry created a suit out of spare parts from NASA's space shuttle. It's not supposed to look like a finished job. I like the contrast how he's a the only one with a makeshift costume among the League members. The idea of using the conducting wires is an interesting one and while the hard science behind it may make a whole lot of sense, I do think the aesthetic Snyder & Co decided to go with will find many detractors. I was one of them and I still am to an extent. But I can't deny that Zack is using some fascinating ideas here.

I remember someone working behind the scenes talk about red-shifts and blue-shifts with regards to Flash. I wonder how the Doppler effect will come in to play.

I remember that. It was Chris Terrio by the way

“I have written Justice League Part One, but I won’t necessarily write ‘Part Two.’ This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life. For Batman v Superman, I wanted to really dig into everything from ideas about American power to the structure of revenge tragedies to the huge canon of DC Comics to Amazon mythology. For Justice League, I could be reading in the same day about red- and blueshifts in physics, Diodorus of Sicily and his account of the war between Amazons and Atlanteans, or deep-sea biology and what kind of life plausibly might be in the Mariana Trench. If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would say you were crazy. But I do think fans deserve that. I felt I owed the fan base all of my body and soul for two years because anything less wouldn’t have been appreciating the opportunity I had.”

http://www.superherohype.com/news/3...k-says-all-the-dc-movies-will-happen#/slide/1

I feel as if the Doppler effect will come into play when Barry actually hits the speed force

I understand that the Justice League Flash armor does have it's share of detractors, some of the arguments are reasonable. But it seems like every superhero movie Zack has done, he really tries to put a lot of real world thinking in the fantastical elements he adapts and elements he borrows from (Not to mention really taking the Knights of the Round Table idea and going full force with it). Honestly I can't wait to see the full visual goodness of this Flash and how future directors take it and evolve the look and the feel from here.

 

[Micromind]

There is a method to this madness. I quite like the idea that Barry created a suit out of spare parts from NASA's space shuttle. It's not supposed to look like a finished job. I like the contrast how he's a the only one with a makeshift costume among the League members. The idea of using the conducting wires is an interesting one and while the hard science behind it may make a whole lot of sense, I do think the aesthetic Snyder & Co decided to go with will find many detractors. I was one of them and I still am to an extent. But I can't deny that Zack is using some fascinating ideas here.

I remember someone working behind the scenes talk about red-shifts and blue-shifts with regards to Flash. I wonder how the Doppler effect will come in to play.

That was Chris Terrio in his interview talking about Flash. I think they can show the Doppler shifts when Barry moves very fast, so that we can only see his lightning effects.

If he is approaching towards the viewer from a distance, we will see more of Indigo-Blue lightning and when Flash moves away from us, his lightning will be of Orange-Red color.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Thanks guys, I forgot it was Terrio.

I have abandoned all I knew about Electromagnetic Physics and the visible light spectrum. I may hafta go back and read some stuff even if I don't really want to.

But I'm happy to know that Terrio researches all these things. I love it when writers and directors are thorough and methodical.

 

[Spider-jedi]

although i'm not a fan of the suit, i do like the statues of the suit. the movie makes it look red and black but the statues have a two tone red which i believe makes the suit look better.

I also appreciate the science angle their adding to the suit with the plates. but i don't like the idea of the lighting been a hazard to everyone and everything around him. i think that's the reason for the conductive metal wires round the suit.

 

[Consona]

I really like his suit, it looks nice aesthetically while feeling there's some deliberate practical functionality to the design.

And it's great they're trying to put some physics into the whole speedster thing. In X-men and MCU, those guys had just some blurry streak behind them which feels very "10 years old invented this superpower". This feels much more like they've actually put some thought into that superpower, which is something I love.

 

[Polux]

I honestly disagree with the whole "Ezra is Barry in Name Only". While Ezra Barry serves the same purpose of JL Wally(the rookie/comedic role), He definitely seems like he is playing on the core Barry characteristics in a Ezra fashion(how Barry is always fashionable late in the scene with Commissioner Gordon, his fanboy/comic loving persona, the absentmindness, the scientist, and his everyman nature).

I think it's always interesting in Barry is depicted as having a sense of humor, they assumed they take that element from Wally(I can see elements like the overeating, or speed force since that is specifically objects created during Wally's time, but they seem to act like Barry is a character completely devoid of humor, as opposed to creators taking some of Barry's elements and finding new ways to modernize/expand on his character). I always keep getting reminded of this quote by Greg Weisman:
While a good description of Barry's personality and his sense of humor would be this:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=18093

While I do agree not every scene hit like Ezra intended, and can feel forced(I did groan at the bat signal scene but loved the "I'm in/I need friends" and the scene with Commissioner Gordon), I think it is Ezra more imbuing himself in the role if anything. I can't see Wally in cartoon or comics, being the first to eagerly join the Justice League simply because he needs friends, or being the last to run off feeling that League running off without saying a word is "rude". The sense of humor might be similar, but the personality behind it is completely different.



I agree with the above post, despite all the arguing and disagreeing with each other, there should be no reason we should at least be amicable and not result to belittling each other in order to get our points across. We all care about the material the companies in order to create these adaptions. We may agree or disagree if the adaption is warranted, but at the end of the day, the discussion always makes it fun to talk about.

Honestly I think the costume works, especially after seeing it in action with the trailers and clips. I feel like just like the Flash tv series costume, it takes the New 52 costume (and in some sense the Injustice look) as the basis for it's design and tried to build on the ideas and look created there. While the tv show took the look and adapted in one way using a more leather design, Zack decided to flesh out the idea that Manapul and Buccellato started that Barry used multiple metal plates in order to conduct the Speed Force energy that the Flash costume is composed of. (Only with metal used by NASA space shuttle and high-tensile wires to conduct the electricity).

To put it in very simplistic terms, Wally is more like "cocky, smartass" type of funny, while Barry is "awkward, goofy" funny and Ezra seems to be doing a lot more of the second than the first one.

 

[Polux]

I really like his suit, it looks nice aesthetically while feeling there's some deliberate practical functionality to the design.

And it's great they're trying to put some physics into the whole speedster thing. In X-men and MCU, those guys had just some blurry streak behind them which feels very "10 years old invented this superpower". This feels much more like they've actually put some thought into that superpower, which is something I love.

Yeap, when I as younger dreaming of seeing these characters in the big screen, I wanted to see them extrapolated to a more tangible, "realistic" world, reason why I loved seeing the political ramifications of Superman's presence in our world and the scientific research that goes into giving a certain level of verisimilitude to these powers.

 

[The Guard]

One thing to consider about Ezra's Barry...he's not just being funny. His jokes inform the struggles he's going through. He uses humor much like people do in real life, to cover when he's uncomfortable or insecure.

"I need...friends." is about his isolation, his feeling that he's the only one with his specific burdens.

"I've never done battle, just pushed some people" is his insecurity over his effectiveness in physical combat. His worries about the scale of what he's found himself in.

And so on and so forth. I think it's an interesting way to reveal character traits that they'll probably build on moving forward.

 

[Iceman]

I don't want to be an a$$hole and rain on the parade here, but I'm not thrilled with The Flash so far. Most of his jokes have fallen flat for me, and he just feels cringe. Plus, I just don't like his suit design at all. It doesn't look immediately recognizable as the Flash in the same way that the tv suit (especially the revamped Season 4 one) does.
Again, I'm not crapping on those who are enjoying this take, just stating my opinion.

I guess you could say the TV suit is a bit more immediately recognisable due to the shape, even though the Ezra suit looks more expensive and better quality. I can see why some might cringe at some of the jokes.

 

[Polux]

One thing to consider about Ezra's Barry...he's not just being funny. His jokes inform the struggles he's going through. He uses humor much like people do in real life, to cover when he's uncomfortable or insecure.

"I need...friends." is about his isolation, his feeling that he's the only one with his specific burdens.

"I've never done battle, just pushed some people" is his insecurity over his effectiveness in physical combat. His worries about the scale of what he's found himself in.

And so on and so forth. I think it's an interesting way to reveal character traits that they'll probably build on moving forward.

This.

 

[Consona]

Yep, the use of humor in his case is very clever. Snyder + Terrio, nuff said.

 

[Consona]

 

[KillerWolf]

Yeah, I don't have problems with "I've never done battle" nor "I need friends" lines, as it's not him trying to be funny per se... his delivery makes it funny with the former and the context of Bruce trying to convince him to join only to have him accept it without any questions creates a situational humor with the latter.

His line with Gordon is the case of it being there only for the purpose of humor and as it happens it fell flat to me. I didn't like his delivery there either. I'm also not crazy about him being constantly awed by the batsignal, flying fox, etc.

So, I'll definitely have to wait and see his character in the film to come to the proper conclusion. If they don't show some depth to him, I might find him somewhat annoying.

 

[SgtRob]

It's...aiight...if film makers want to throw some science in there. Except that it is pseudoscience, with a tenuous base in reality at best.And more importantly, it doesn't really help these films. Story and character should be paramount.

I can imagine how terrible movies like Back to the Future and Star Wars would be if guys like Zack Snyder injected their 'realism' into them.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

It's...aiight...if film makers want to throw some science in there. Except that it is pseudoscience, with a tenuous base in reality at best.And more importantly, it doesn't really help these films. Story and character should be paramount.

I can imagine how terrible movies like Back to the Future and Star Wars would be if guys like Zack Snyder injected their 'realism' into them.

 

[ironman29758]

To put it in very simplistic terms, Wally is more like "cocky, smartass" type of funny, while Barry is "awkward, goofy" funny and Ezra seems to be doing a lot more of the second than the first one.

Pretty much.

One thing to consider about Ezra's Barry...he's not just being funny. His jokes inform the struggles he's going through. He uses humor much like people do in real life, to cover when he's uncomfortable or insecure.

"I need...friends." is about his isolation, his feeling that he's the only one with his specific burdens.

"I've never done battle, just pushed some people" is his insecurity over his effectiveness in physical combat. His worries about the scale of what he's found himself in.

And so on and so forth. I think it's an interesting way to reveal character traits that they'll probably build on moving forward.

That's a good way to put it, Ezra's humor and natural energy seems to inform the character and personality in every scene, which really kind of

I am really interested in how Cyborg and Flash interaction be handled, since I've seen or heard Barry interact with Bruce and to lesser extent Diana. But I just can't wait to see how you gives the younger brother vibe but still feels like Barry to me.

Yeap, when I as younger dreaming of seeing these characters in the big screen, I wanted to see them extrapolated to a more tangible, "realistic" world, reason why I loved seeing the political ramifications of Superman's presence in our world and the scientific research that goes into giving a certain level of verisimilitude to these powers.

I agree with this so much. It's enjoyable to examine ideas like that and see these characters would be like if they actually existed in the real world, or the film maker's idea of what that would if they existed in this world.

It's...aiight...if film makers want to throw some science in there. Except that it is pseudoscience, with a tenuous base in reality at best.And more importantly, it doesn't really help these films. Story and character should be paramount.

I can imagine how terrible movies like Back to the Future and Star Wars would be if guys like Zack Snyder injected their 'realism' into them.

I mean Flash has always been a character that utilized pseudoscience in his stories, especially in the silver age(The Flash Facts). What Zack does is no different from the other film directors who try to ground and examine these characters abilities to exist in this universe. The science, or trying to figure out the science of how their abilities work in the real world doesn't take away from telling the story or developing the characters imo.

 

[SgtRob]

Yeah I think trying to add science or realism can help make a movie great. I believe grounding Batman worked really well in Nolan's trilogy. My point is ZS seems to focus on it too much, at the expense of storytelling.

I don't think Snyder does well with narrative and characterizations.

I cant get past the Flash's lightning affecting things around him. Maybe I am wrong and it doesn't have an effect on his surroundings, but it definitely takes away his stealthiness (from moving to fast to be seen).