Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - Part 23

[spideyboy_1111]

The new deal allows for that stuff, sure. Fox doesn't have the new deal. They have a twenty year old deal that probably didn't stipulate that they would automatically get a character that was created as a villain for a S.H.I.E.L.D. focused event comic just because she happens to be from Latveria. She's not terribly unlike Victoria Hand in the sense that a big part of her character is tied to a major component of a franchise Marvel doesn't have the rights too, but she's from a Marvel Universe event first and foremost. Marvel has Victoria Hand, so...

Theres no reason marvel wouldnt own Victoria Hand. She first appeared in iron man, has no major ties to any fox property, and her most notable story was in dark avengers... of course they have her rights.

Lucia first appeared in secret war, which was heavily tied into doom and latveria, its a major part of her character. She also has strong ties with 2 other fantastic four villains... the mad tinkerer and red ghost. Theres no way fox doesnt own her, especially if they have viper. .. and post deal characters count... x-men got ink , angel s, azaezel, and darwin

 

[Dasher10]

The new deal allows for that stuff, sure. Fox doesn't have the new deal. They have a twenty year old deal that probably didn't stipulate that they would automatically get a character that was created as a villain for a S.H.I.E.L.D. focused event comic just because she happens to be from Latveria. She's not terribly unlike Victoria Hand in the sense that a big part of her character is tied to a major component of a franchise Marvel doesn't have the rights too, but she's from a Marvel Universe event first and foremost. Marvel has Victoria Hand, so...

Victoria Hand was created within the pages of Iron Man. There is no way Marvel wouldn't own here. That's not even up for debate.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Fox should give Marvel the right to make an in-universe FF based on the 616 version. They just can't make a movie about them kinda like the Hulk.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

SWORD was probably part of the Nick Fury and SHIELD rights (hoping Marvel has Abigail Brand)

Kree were probably packed with both Ms Marvel and Inhumans instead of FF. Mostly since you can't do Ms Marvel or Inhumans without the Kree.

Skrulls are also tied to Hulk so I can see why those are split.

Inhumans I'm a bit surprised about but I'm guessing that they were either sold back by Fox or were bundled as their own property and sold to another studio before reverting to Marvel. They've also had their own series on plenty of occasions.

Scorch was a New Warriors villain despite being a mutant. Kind of like how Marvel has Scarlet Witch since she's an Avenger and Whirlwind is probably over with Ant-Man and Wasp.

Raina is a completely different character than the Raina from the comics. She shares a name but she's a completely original character to the MCU.

Personally, if I were Marvel, I'd try to get access to Viper since I don't get why she's part of the X-Men rights as opposed to the Captain America rights.

Raina is clearly based off or inspired by comic raina, down to the reptillian appearance and sillouette. They just altered and expanded on a very minor character. Plus, marvel likely has the savage land, and her race of dino people (who evolved from reptiles) shes not a mutant, nor one of magnetos mutates in the comics. Just because you appear in a properties comic, doesnt mean they are packaged with the parent comic.

Fox just likely has sauron and the mutates created by magneto. Though, its possible they just own the mutates, and not sauron

 

[Eddie]

Victoria Hand was created within the pages of Iron Man. There is no way Marvel wouldn't own here. That's not even up for debate.

Not really my point (though frankly you kinda supported my point as von Bardas was NOT created for the FF book, she was in Secret War). That said, it would be hilarious if it was that simple. Marvel would have Wolverine, Rogue, Mystique, Sabertooth...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Not really my point (though frankly you kinda supported my point as von Bardas was NOT created for the FF book, she was in Secret War). That said, it would be hilarious if it was that simple. Marvel would have Wolverine, Rogue, Mystique, Sabertooth...

Its more about their ties and stories over where they appeared. Which is why fox likely has lucia, but did not get the kree or the savage land. Its quite possible sauron is packed with kazaar since hes like his main villain

 

[Dasher10]

Fox should give Marvel the right to make an in-universe FF based on the 616 version. They just can't make a movie about them kinda like the Hulk.

It depends on the reception to this film. If it bombs hard enough that there is no way things could be fixed in a sequel, then the rights should revert. Much like Spider-Man, if the reboot doesn't win people over, then there is nowhere left to go.

And if the rights do revert, I still hold that this should be the Marvel Studios FF.

Matthew Mcconaughey - Reed
Emily Blunt - Sue
Cam Gigandet - Johnny
Seth Rogan - Ben
Sergej Trifunovic - Victor

I'd also skip the origin entirely and just show flashbacks like in The Incredible Hulk. Start in the middle, make reference to, "the accident" and then show flashbacks which would be a combination of the 616 and Ultimate origins. The FF have just adjusted to their new powers. They just secured several floors of the Baxter Building in Four Freedoms Plaza for a new organization called the Future Foundation. They also just ordered new uniforms which should allow them to better contain their powers which are matching colors. Reed would be blaming himself for the accident, Ben just blames Johnny for not being an astronaut, having no background in science, only being chosen for the mission because he was Reed's brother-in-law and he also caused the experiment to go wrong once the space shuttle entered the Negative Zone. Johnny was only chosen because Doctor Bentley Wittman got sick the day of and Reed's entire team got removed from the mission at the last second so they stole the shuttle so Reed could get a Nobel Prize.

The main issue now is that a certain dictator who made a breakthrough in robotics and artificial intelligence is kind of angry that he DIDN'T get a Nobel when Reed Richards broke the law to do so and got a full pardon. (Never mind that Doom makes his own laws and rules by decree.) He's now out to the FF to destroy the Future Foundation as his vengeance.

And I just wrote a better treatment than what we're actually getting, regardless of how it turns out.

 

[Eddie]

Theres no reason marvel wouldnt own Victoria Hand. She first appeared in iron man, has no major ties to any fox property, and her most notable story was in dark avengers... of course they have her rights.

Lucia first appeared in secret war, which was heavily tied into doom and latveria, its a major part of her character. She also has strong ties with 2 other fantastic four villains... the mad tinkerer and red ghost. Theres no way fox doesnt own her, especially if they have viper. .. and post deal characters count... x-men got ink , angel s, azaezel, and darwin

Viper is likely shared. That or Fox pulled a fast one as "Viper" is a common word and their character was an INO version with actual snake powers.

Anyway, here are more fun examples: Quake was created for the same book as von Bardas. She's owned by Marvel. Adam Warlock originally appeared in FF. He's with Marvel. Kingpin is originally a Spidey villain. He's part of the Daredevil package.

I have never seen ANY solid evidence that Fox owns Lucia von Bardas. These licensing deals are way more complicated than "Latveria=Fantastic Four". Hell, the video game rights once granted one company exclusive rights to the Hulk, but not Bruce Banner (that's why Banner showed up in Ultimate Alliance but Hulk wasn't added until dlc made after the rights reverted).

 

[Dasher10]

Raina is clearly based off or inspired by comic raina, down to the reptillian appearance and sillouette. They just altered and expanded on a very minor character. Plus, marvel likely has the savage land, and her race of dino people (who evolved from reptiles) shes not a mutant, nor one of magnetos mutates in the comics. Just because you appear in a properties comic, doesnt mean they are packaged with the parent comic.

Fox just likely has sauron and the mutates created by magneto. Though, its possible they just own the mutates, and not sauron

Either you're right about Raina in which case, the Savage Land is shared or totally Marvel's due to the Ka-Zar rights, in which case, Fox probably only owns Sauron and Vertigo or I'm right and she just has the same name but is a completely new character since you can't trademark a generic first name.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Id vote for a younger more motherly sue for once... plus, theres a good chance blunt is captain marvel still.


And this film is already getting made fun of as being intersteller like... cam i like, but id still prefer a younger johnny..

If we went older sure, but then id want everyone older... charlize as sue, and tom hanks as reed.

But i think we will get a 20something johnny, a late 20s/ early 30s sue. And a 40s or early 50s reed and ben.

Reed and ben should be about the same age as ironman, strange, and banner. Johnny should be spideys age, if not only a few years older. Sue, should be between johnny and reeds ages

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Margot robbie, while is younger than she appears, would also be a fantastic sue

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Viper is likely shared. That or Fox pulled a fast one as "Viper" is a common word and their character was an INO version with actual snake powers.

Anyway, here are more fun examples: Quake was created for the same book as von Bardas. She's owned by Marvel. Adam Warlock originally appeared in FF. He's with Marvel. Kingpin is originally a Spidey villain. He's part of the Daredevil package.

I have never seen ANY solid evidence that Fox owns Lucia von Bardas. These licensing deals are way more complicated than "Latveria=Fantastic Four". Hell, the video game rights once granted one company exclusive rights to the Hulk, but not Bruce Banner (that's why Banner showed up in Ultimate Alliance but Hulk wasn't added until dlc made after the rights reverted).

Again, its never been about where they appeared or why they're created... its about who they are connected with and their stories. Or else kingpin and punisher would be with spidey... and the fanastic four would probably have half the mu

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Also, marvel likely can use "madame hydra" but not the title viper, and vice-versa

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Either you're right about Raina in which case, the Savage Land is shared or totally Marvel's due to the Ka-Zar rights, in which case, Fox probably only owns Sauron and Vertigo or I'm right and she just has the same name but is a completely new character since you can't trademark a generic first name.

Problem is, you also cant make "obvious" similar knock offs either. Or else the other studio can sue.

Fox definitely has viper, and it was definitely suppose to be the viper from the story the film was based. Its just likely shared rights like the twins.

 

[Dasher10]

Viper is likely shared. That or Fox pulled a fast one as "Viper" is a common word and their character was an INO version with actual snake powers.

Anyway, here are more fun examples: Quake was created for the same book as von Bardas. She's owned by Marvel. Adam Warlock originally appeared in FF. He's with Marvel. Kingpin is originally a Spidey villain. He's part of the Daredevil package.

I have never seen ANY solid evidence that Fox owns Lucia von Bardas. These licensing deals are way more complicated than "Latveria=Fantastic Four". Hell, the video game rights once granted one company exclusive rights to the Hulk, but not Bruce Banner (that's why Banner showed up in Ultimate Alliance but Hulk wasn't added until dlc made after the rights reverted).

Lots of things originated in the pages of Fantastic Four which are now owned by Marvel. Adam Warlock was probably part of the Infinity Watch rights (which evolved into the present day Guardians), Black Panther got tied to the Avengers as well as became his own hero in the 70s, Inhumans also became their own thing in the 70s and those rights were probably sold seperately, the Kree were probably sold with the Inhumans and Ms Marvel rights back in the late 90s, Multiple Man is part of the X-Men rights, etc.

But even if FF reverted, there are some things over at Fox which Marvel should try to get back, like Viper, the Shi'Ar, the Brood and Fox's cut of merch revenue. Marvel got more back with the sharing agreement with Sony with regard to other properties than they would get with the FF since Spider-Man allows for Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers with Shocker, Mach, Sandman, Green Goblin and Scorpion as well as the Daily Bugle.

But on the plus side, Marvel would get Annihilus, Super Skrull and the Badoon back to use in Guardians sequels and Black Panther could face off against Doctor Doom.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Lots of things originated in the pages of Fantastic Four which are now owned by Marvel. Adam Warlock was probably part of the Infinity Watch rights (which evolved into the present day Guardians), Black Panther got tied to the Avengers as well as became his own hero in the 70s, Inhumans also became their own thing in the 70s and those rights were probably sold seperately, the Kree were probably sold with the Inhumans and Ms Marvel rights back in the late 90s, Multiple Man is part of the X-Men rights, etc.

But even if FF reverted, there are some things over at Fox which Marvel should try to get back, like Viper, the Shi'Ar, the Brood and Fox's cut of merch revenue. Marvel got more back with the sharing agreement with Sony with regard to other properties than they would get with the FF since Spider-Man allows for Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers with Shocker, Mach, Sandman, Green Goblin and Scorpion as well as the Daily Bugle.

But on the plus side, Marvel would get Annihilus, Super Skrull and the Badoon back to use in Guardians sequels and Black Panther could face off against Doctor Doom.

Again, i follow merch very closely, ive been a toy collector for 20 years. The fox merch rights are worthless. Marvel would get the f4 film merch rights back with the f4 film rights. And then at least make those worth something when they do their own films.

but until then they're worthless.

The brood would be good, as would the shiar. I doubt fox will use them anyway. The biggest shocker was the badoon. Im still shocked fox has them

 

[Eddie]

Character rights don't work the way some of you folks think they do. Spider-Ham isn't part of the Spidey film package, and he is a version of Spidey. Marvel doesn't have him either as he's considered "frozen" (nobody can use him). Granted, any Spidey example is null and void after the deal in all likelihood, but it still gives insight into the way these things work. Maybe Lucia is "frozen". She was conceived as a S.H.I.E.L.D. villain, though, not a FF villain, regardless of country of origin. If vague connections were all it took (it isn't, contracts are more specific than that) the MCU would look wildly different. First appearances aren't everything, as has been established, but when your first appearance comes a decade after the film rights are sold, you're the villain in a story Marvel Studios has drawn from, including the use of another new character from that book, and you're best known for battling a Nick Fury recruited group that doesn't even feature the FF, you're probably not exclusive to the FF.

Basically those fans that want Bardas, Namor, and a crossover film actually want the FF rights to revert. And that's hilarious, given their stated preference for that to not happen.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Ham was frozen like spider-woman. They were likely at marvel, but tooook similar to spidey to be used. Ip confusion and what not.

bardas is either frozen likey you said, or shes at fox for all her ties to the f4 universe (doom, latveria, red ghost, tinkerer)

It has to be one of those two

 

[spideyboy_1111]

But you would have thought the badoon and viper would have been the same. Viper has farrrrr more ties ro shield. My only guess is fox asked to use her. Marvel said sure, but only in this way/altercations

 

[C. Lee]

I already said this to you... but Universal never released a Namor film... so imo it was an easy transfer for Marvel to get Namor back... though the distribution is another thing.

[BLACKOUT][/BLACKOUT]

 

[spideyboy_1111]

[BLACKOUT][/BLACKOUT]

Fan made? Or actual 1940s serial movie?

 

[C. Lee]

Fan made.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Boo

Lol. I know of the cap serial, and while torch looked fake, namor looks good. Hoped their were more

 

[Urich Leeds]

Fox should give Marvel the right to make an in-universe FF based on the 616 version. They just can't make a movie about them kinda like the Hulk.

Hulk is a different beast. Marvel owns Hulk's production rights (otherwise, he couldn't be in a film). They just don't own his distribution rights, which are held by Universal (who wants compensation for distributing).

So they can only use him in team films. So if any deal is worked out for FF, it'll be full rights reversion, or a shared rights deal, ala the Spidey deal.

 

[C. Lee]

Boo

Lol. I know of the cap serial, and while torch looked fake, namor looks good. Hoped their were more