Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - Part 23

[Paradox1]

Why not? It benefits the work in the end, and is the very reason dc has had trouble with anyone whos not batman. Marvel found a way to balance it all and let the characters speak for themselves. DC really should learn from this, and try to even further improve upon it. Not ttry to reinvent their characters, and break whats not broken. Its a dated concept. Fox should be learning as well.. but all Sony, Fox, and WB seem to have gotten out of what Marvel accomplished is "cross-overs make money". WB is now rushing into a dccu jumping head first into jla without crafting the established universe (and is something that could very well bite them in the end, FOX just now started to map out xmen films ahead of time rather than one film at a time, and sony tried to force it on a character who didnt need that perspective and tainted him because of it

Why not? You'd essentially kill this run of comic films years before it's time. Even if the general audience loves comic films now if they were all the same. It would become stale and less and less people would go see them. Then they'd go away for a while like Mob movies, westerns, and etc.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Should every writer of plays write like William Shakespeare? No other studio or film should try to be like Marvel. Every one should create their own identity. It allows what Marvel does to be stay fresh and distinct to them.

If someone makes a movie that they want to call Hamlet and they want to get money from people who want to see a Hamlet film, they should make a $&^%$# Hamlet film.

Not make whatever they want and slap the Hamlet name on it to try to trick people into seeing it.

How has Fox done with that whole 'fresh and distinct' thing? except for X-Men every other Marvel film they've done has sucked.

People talk about Fox's 'artistic freedom' as if they've accomplished something without Bryan Singer and have earned the right to give us their vision instead of what we want to see. They haven't earned it.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Then they should learn to accept opposing viewpoints like every other forum.

How many times do you have to be told to discuss the film instead of how other people post? Your constant instigating is growing tedious.

Yeah so what if they left? Maybe in their hearts they knew that the "negativity" was true otherwise why wouldn't they stand up for their thoughts. If people have strong feelings about completely changing the visual style of a franchise that they grew up with they are more than welcome here just the same as the people blowing rainbows up this movies ass.

 

[moviedoors]

Yeah, I don't want to settle on one formula for comic book movies. I like diversity. I like hearing a filmmaker's unique voice. I want a range of approaches, and styles, and tones. If one doesn't work, eh, big deal. Give it a decade and they'll try it again anyway.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Why not? You'd essentially kill this run of comic films years before it's time. Even if the general audience loves comic films now if they were all the same. It would become stale and less and less people would go see them. Then they'd go away for a while like Mob movies, westerns, and etc.

You are being far too black and white, one way or another, about it. Every comic character exists in a different genre than another... batman is a crime drama, she-hulk is an awkward comedy, spider-man is a romance soap.. they are all these genres combined with superhero films. Its not as simple as you may think. Let the characters speak for themselves, dont reinvent a wheel that isnt broken. Improve on what works and what doesnt to keep things fresh.

You cant always retell the same version of Shakespeare because its been done a billion times.. and the general public knows it quite well. They do not know the fantastic four on that level. Do something correctly before reinventing it.

 

[Dasher10]

The MCU works because it avoids being grim while also avoiding camp. Not to say that darker properties like Captain America and Daredevil don't exist but the tone and genre vary depending on the IP. Doctor Strange will presumably be a horror movie. Captain Marvel will be equal parts alien abduction film and war movie.

The FF are sci-fi. That's what this film is getting right. What it's getting wrong is the sense of unity and the team dynamic which seem to be absent. That and the celebrity angle. That's what I can tell from the costumes. Much like Man of Steel, Fox has already greenlit a sequel and love it or hate it, this is the FF we're getting for the forseeable future.

Again, if this works, it'll be like Tim Burton's Batman which wasn't faithful but it was still a great Batman. (IMO, the best Batman adaptations were Batman: The Animated Series, the Nolan films and the Arkham games since they were the closest to the comics.)

I'm just hoping that going forward, Fox listens to the fans and decides to have a confident post-origin FF with matching uniforms for the sequel.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, I don't want to settle on one formula for comic book movies. I like diversity. I like hearing a filmmaker's unique voice. I want a range of approaches, and styles, and tones. If one doesn't work, eh, big deal. Give it a decade and they'll try it again anyway.

And by all means, you can have that. But that said voice, should compliment said property, not distract from it.

 

[moviedoors]

And by all means, you can have that. But that said voice, should compliment said property, not distract from it.

Of course, which is all in the eye of the beholder, which is why I'm sick of people suggesting I have "low expectations" or that I'm flat out about being dishonest about my positive attitude towards this property.

 

[Flint Marko]

actually.. spidey does work for that... he's had plenty of dark stories (kraven's last hunt, death of gwen, death in the family, torment, etc... he and batman are characters that should and can walk in and out of the light. it just shouldn't be the complete tone for a spidey franchise. I always say keep it simple.. dark and gritty works for street level heroes.. not so much for superhero teams

He's had plenty of dark stories, but he is not a dark character. That's my main point. He can walk in and out of the light, like you have said, and a dark Spider-man movie could be made, but it would have to be in the right context for it to ring true to the character IMO.

If someone makes a movie that they want to call Hamlet and they want to get money from people who want to see a Hamlet film, they should make a $&^%$# Hamlet film.

Not make whatever they want and slap the Hamlet name on it to try to trick people into seeing it.

How has Fox done with that whole 'fresh and distinct' thing? except for X-Men every other Marvel film they've done has sucked.

People talk about Fox's 'artistic freedom' as if they've accomplished something without Bryan Singer and have earned the right to give us their vision instead of what we want to see. They haven't earned it.

Fox has yet to succeed without Singer involved in some capacity.

Man of Steel is considered a failure I think but that had great marketing

On what planet is MoS considered a failure? I was disappointed in the movie, and it failed to impress me, but it made $700 million dollars and kickstarted a cinematic universe.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

A well-done Fantastic Four film would be different than anything that's come before because they're different characters with different villains, different motivations etc. etc. etc.

Also, we have not yet seen a superhero film that has reached the potential of what these films could be.

The way to set yourself apart from Marvel. Do it BETTER than them. Don't just make a cheap film that throws out all the things that make FF unique and replace them with the cliche's we saw in the trailer.

Hire a great director, give him a great script and give him the resources he needs to do it right.

It's very possible to make a great film that includes elements that made the FF great, but Fox doesn't seem to have a clue how to do that and/or doesn't want to spend the money required to do that.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Of course, which is all in the eye of the beholder, which is why I'm sick of people suggesting I have "low expectations" or that I'm flat out about being dishonest about my positive attitude towards this property.

here's the thing... you can't look at just one story arc. you have to look at the entire run of a comic franchise (in DC's case, your choice of continuity) and that's what you get an "average vibe" or "feel" for when depicting a mood or style for a film based on said property. There's absolutely no denying that "the Fantastic Four" are not a "dark and gritty" comic book. they are a family who travels through the wonder of other worlds. and lands of science... AND STILL as a family (often even taking there children with them) it's all very much a "doctor who" vibe. It's not grim and gritty...

this is the exact reverse (and just as extreme) as schumacher making a light and campy set of batman films influenced by the 60s films... that's not the general or favorable tone of the batman franchise. Just as "dark and gritty" is not the favorable tone of the Fantastic Four

 

[Dasher10]

Speaking of original takes on Shakespeare...

[YT]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8Z9Ismh1elM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YT]

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Imagine for a moment Dr. Doom done right.

That would be AMAZING. That would be like nothing we've ever seen. That would have Sony, DC and Marvel all wondering how they could compete with that.

Now imagine Dr. Doom dressed in a garbage bag.

Artistic vision my a$$.

 

[Dasher10]

Wow, the forum won't let me link to the Last Action Hero Hamlet. Lame.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Wow, the forum won't let me link to the Last Action Hero Hamlet. Lame.

Here, does this one work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JQ8yF04y9o

 

[Dasher10]

Here, does this one work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JQ8yF04y9o

Works for me.

 

[Paradox1]

If someone makes a movie that they want to call Hamlet and they want to get money from people who want to see a Hamlet film, they should make a $&^%$# Hamlet film.

Not make whatever they want and slap the Hamlet name on it to try to trick people into seeing it.

How has Fox done with that whole 'fresh and distinct' thing? except for X-Men every other Marvel film they've done has sucked.

People talk about Fox's 'artistic freedom' as if they've accomplished something without Bryan Singer and have earned the right to give us their vision instead of what we want to see. They haven't earned it.

Wrong example as Hamlet has been adopted in various ways. Some that in no shape or form resemble what was originally performed. Sometimes Hamlet is performed without those original costumes, dialogue or original tones.

Those other marvel movies were done over ten years ago.Not only is there a different creative team, Fox itself is under different management. Which led them to the greatest single year in film that any studio has ever had commercially and critically. If this studio doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, nobody does.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Wrong example as Hamlet has been adopted in various ways. Some that in no shape or form resemble what was originally performed. Sometimes Hamlet is performed without those original costumes, dialogue or original tones.

Yeah, and when I see Gilligan doing it, I think: "Thank goodness somebody is doing this right."

And DOFP wasn't nearly good enough to make me say: "Ah, you finally figured it out Fox." And if it were, the FF trailer would have made me realize how foolish that assumption would have been.

 

[Zarex]

I'd say it's likely Fox will keep them until the next deadline. Pretty sure Marvel owns 100% X-Men comic merch and atleast majority movie merch rights already

What would be the point of playing keep away with the rights? Any desire to restrict the MCU's dominance went out the window with the Sony-Marvel deal. FOX will quietly trade the FF character family in for TV rights after FFINO flops.

I've seen new-ish members say the wish there was a negative thread so the main threads can be hospitable. They left the section eventually.

Members who don't have the courage of their convictions can continue to attack this thread on the X-Men boards.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Wrong example as Hamlet has been adopted in various ways. Some that in no shape or form resemble what was originally performed. Sometimes Hamlet is performed without those original costumes, dialogue or original tones.

Those other marvel movies were done over ten years ago.Not only is there a different creative team, Fox itself is under different management. Which led them to the greatest single year in film that any studio has ever had commercially and critically. If this studio doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, nobody does.

you still don't get it..

Shakespeare is nearly 400 years old.. has been retold BILLIONs of time.. what's even as old, if not older than shakespeare? Fairytales and folklore... which also has been told BILLIONS of times... these works and stories are ingrained in everyone across the worlds life, we know most of it like the back of our hand... (not saying recitable, but we know the story) Superheroes are still relatively new to the world.. not even 100 years old yet... many many heroes are still only known on a surface level to the general audience.. it's not time to re-tell those characters yet..

now.. 3 heroes who have had multiple films, and are now ingrained in our culture... are Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man.. these characters we can start playing with a little bit.. we know the origin, we know the concept.. the supporting cast, the love lives, you can play with it a little bit. We know what those characters about... that's how we got Smallville, Gotham, and how we will likely get a twist on the new spidey.. (no origin story).

the FANTASTIC FOUR has been no-where close to this level.. it's just on a very superficial level. it's not time to twist them and put as spin on there story.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, and when I see Gilligan doing it, I think: "Thank goodness somebody is doing this right."

And DOFP wasn't nearly good enough to make me say: "Ah, you finally figured it out Fox." And if it were, the FF trailer would have made me realize how foolish that assumption would have been.

yeah DOFP was more like "you're finally heading in the right direction FOX, not quite there, but getting better!"

Fant4stic is more like "omg what are you doing, you're veering off the road into a ditch"

 

[Paradox1]

Yeah, and when I see Gilligan doing it, I think: "Thank goodness somebody is doing this right."

And DOFP wasn't nearly good enough to make me say: "Ah, you finally figured it out Fox." And if it were, the FF trailer would have made me realize how foolish that assumption would have been.

Your thinking too small DOFP was one film they made last year. They released over 22 i believe and I think 19 were critical and financial successes. I think the studio made over 5billion dollars last year without one movie crossing over a billion(if someone wants to pull up the official numbers please do). To give perspective most big studios know their movies are going to be crap and take a hit financially. Which puts a huge emphasis on these tentpoles. Where they regroup most of their loses from all the failures they release.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Yeah, I don't want to settle on one formula for comic book movies. I like diversity. I like hearing a filmmaker's unique voice. I want a range of approaches, and styles, and tones. If one doesn't work, eh, big deal. Give it a decade and they'll try it again anyway.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of others coming with a lighter tone to scratch that itch

 

[Whiskey Tango]

"Plenty of others" means squat when what you specifically want is a proper FF movie.

 

[TeeKay]

It's especially jarring in light of the awesome A:AOU 3rd trailer. Way too "comicbooky", right Josh?

I put this on another thread:

A:AOU is a celebration of everything we love about the Avengers.

FFINO is a rejection of everything we love about the Fantastic Four.

Especially when we have shots like these...

Basically ripped off the pages of a comic book.

So Trank can go **** himself.