Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - Part 23

[Dasher10]

I don't think this movie will be any different. It's a talky movie i.e. character driven with CGI environments (negative zone) and characters getting to know their powers.

You won't be seeing things go boom boom in this movie. Even after shooting more action to make the existing set piece longer, I doubt it will still be enough.

Bottom line, the movie has nowhere the amount of big and spectacle heavy action set pieces comic book movies nowadays have. I can guarantee this will be the biggest issue for audience. It can get pretty boring if they have to sit for 1.5 hrs of talky stuff to get to the action.

That's why fox is nervous as hell. But then again rise of the planet of the apes was similar and that turned out fine. Only difference being it was a little over 100 minutes long. Maybe they should edit this down to a fast pace 100 minutes if the movie is too boring.

So if the characters work, it'll be like Unbreakable, if they don't, it'll be like Superman Returns?

If the cast don't work as who they're playing and don't come across as the characters we all know and love, I expect this film to go down as the longest two hours of my life.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Hey guys, just wanted to say I loved the trailer and have high hopes for this movie. Really, really looking forward to this!

 

[Snikt]

Hey guys, just wanted to say I loved the trailer and have high hopes for this movie. Really, really looking forward to this!

RUN!!! Run while you can! Forget all you've seen in this forum .

 

[Flint Marko]

How does that expression go. Identical is the spice of life? - wait that doesn't sound right.

How does that expression go. If it ain't broke, fix it? - wait that doesn't sound right.

 

[Dasher10]

How does that expression go. If it ain't broke, fix it? - wait that doesn't sound right.

But it WAS broken. The Metascores for both previous films were 40 and 45 respectively. Since both films hurt the brand, the comics stopped selling with only Hickman's run doing well. That's not the sign of a healthy franchise.

 

[Flint Marko]

But it WAS broken. The Metascores for both previous films were 40 and 45 respectively. Since both films hurt the brand, the comics stopped selling with only Hickman's run doing well. That's not the sign of a healthy franchise.

Are you kidding me? The franchise started the marvel universe and went along fine for decades, there's nothing "broken" about that. In terms of the previous films, they were poorly made garbage; that had nothing to do with the IP itself and everything to do with the studio handling the property. Fox dug it's own grave, it wasn't the FF and the source material that did it.
To pretend that the franchise needed a drastic change to work properly is completely disingenuous. I can't believe you are seriously going to try and claim that, especially when we live in a day and age where movies that feel exactly like a comic book are raking in billions worldwide. You can't argue that and expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Dasher10]

Are you kidding me? The franchise started the marvel universe and went along fine for decades, there's nothing "broken" about that. In terms of the previous films, they were poorly made garbage; that had nothing to do with the IP itself and everything to do with the studio handling the property. Fox dug it's own grave, it wasn't the FF and the source material that did it.
To pretend that the franchise needed a drastic change to work properly is completely disingenuous. I can't believe you are seriously going to try and claim that, especially when we live in a day and age where movies that feel exactly like a comic book are raking in billions worldwide. You can't argue that and expect to be taken seriously.

I didn't argue that. I argued that Fox's handling of the IP in the past was to blame and they would be dumb to redo the exact same films. The comics are no longer popular because people associate the brand with the Tim Story films.

 

[Flint Marko]

I didn't argue that. I argued that Fox's handling of the IP in the past was to blame and they would be dumb to redo the exact same films. The comics are no longer popular because people associate the brand with the Tim Story films.

So basically if Fox made a FF movie that was accurate to the source material it would be stupid, because they would basically be redoing the Story films?
You see the flaw in that logic?

 

[nogolf33]

Because the Thing is not wearing any pants?

Well, they could be going the Watchmen route and CGI a thong on him. You wouldn't see it from the angle in the trailer.

 

[pavlov]

So basically if Fox made a FF movie that was accurate to the source material it would be stupid, because they would basically be redoing the Story films?
You see the flaw in that logic?

Calling out flaws in logic now?

 

[Flint Marko]

Calling out flaws in logic now?

Yup. Care to offer a decent rebuttal, or are you going to dip in and out of the conversation at your convenience?

 

[pavlov]

Dasher was being perfectly clear with his point then you twisted and misinterpreted it to suit your argument.

 

[Flint Marko]

Dasher was being perfectly clear with his point then you twisted and misinterpreted it to suit your argument.

Lol no, his point was that the franchise is apparently "broken" and needed fixing.
I pointed out that the franchise not only has been fine for over 40 years, but that it kickstarted the Marvel universe as we know it. That is not the sign of a franchise that needs retooling, that is not the sign of characters that need revamping to make them work. Yet here he is arguing otherwise.
He then pointed to the previous films and saying that since they failed so bad, it's time to throw out everything we know and love about the FF and start over. That is, again, completely wrongheaded because we live in a time where the Avengers grossed 1.5 billion by sticking close to it's comic book roots. There's no longer a need for "dark and gritty" superhero movies (the executive producer of this movie said so himself, look at my signature) or a need to turn Galactus into a cloud; you can very clearly do the comics justice and people will flock to go see it, if your film is good and worth seeing.
The problems with the previous two installments weren't the source material, it's that they were not good movies. To stray further away from what made the characters popular and beloved for decades is the completely wrong approach.
Anything else?

 

[Nemeres]

Batan Returns - to this day - is still the best Batman movie ever made

It's a mess with a sloppy story.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's a mess with a sloppy story.

I've never loved Batman returns...

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

It's a mess with a sloppy story.

I was talking about Batman Returns, not The Dark Knight Rises

 

[pavlov]

Lol no, his point was that the franchise is apparently "broken" and needed fixing.
I pointed out that the franchise not only has been fine for over 40 years, but that it kickstarted the Marvel universe as we know it. That is not the sign of a franchise that needs retooling, that is not the sign of characters that need revamping to make them work. Yet here he is arguing otherwise.
He then pointed to the previous films and saying that since they failed so bad, it's time to throw out everything we know and love about the FF and start over. That is, again, completely wrongheaded because we live in a time where the Avengers grossed 1.5 billion by sticking close to it's comic book roots. There's no longer a need for "dark and gritty" superhero movies (the executive producer of this movie said so himself, look at my signature) or a need to turn Galactus into a cloud; you can very clearly do the comics justice and people will flock to go see it, if your film is good and worth seeing.
The problems with the previous two installments weren't the source material, it's that they were not good movies. To stray further away from what made the characters popular and beloved for decades is the completely wrong approach.
Anything else?

The comicbook is being cancelled due to poor sales. The last movies that were similar to the comics in tone were critical and box office failures. So failures in both fronts.

As a studio, why would Fox want to sell something in the same packaging as the previous failed products?

 

[Flint Marko]

I was talking about Batman Returns, not The Dark Knight Rises

Lol. Love the sig btw.

 

[Tony Stark]

I didn't argue that. I argued that Fox's handling of the IP in the past was to blame and they would be dumb to redo the exact same films. The comics are no longer popular because people associate the brand with the Tim Story films.

Batman '89 and Batman Begins share alot of the same elements, yet they are vastly different films. You can use the source material in a different way without doing a 180.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

The last movies that were similar to the comics in tone were critical and box office failures.

They were failures not because they were similar in tone to the comics, they were failures because they were bad movies

 

[Flint Marko]

The comicbook is being cancelled due to poor sales. The last movies that were similar to the comics in tone were critical and box office failures. So failures in both fronts.

Again, the last several movies were failures because they were not well made. How many damn times do I have to say that? Do you still not get it? It has nothing to do with the source material.
And the comics being cancelled does not say much about the properties appeal since said characters have lasted for 50 some odd years.
Also I'm not convinced they were being cancelled due to poor sales numbers (although the numbers have been down), but due to the ever-growing rift between Fox and Marvel.

As a studio, why would Fox want to sell something in the same packaging as the previous failed products?

"Failed products". Lol.
Again, you can sell something regardless of the "packaging" if it is worth selling. Just because your previous movie did not work does not mean you can't retool it and figure out what went wrong, and then peddle it to the masses again, without making a complete 180 and doing something that is not true to the characters.
Or maybe you didn't hear of a little movie called amazing spider-man? It largely told the same story that had been told ten years earlier, but still made over $700 million. They didn't radically shift the tone or the characters to make them unrecognizable from what had come before, but it seemed to work out just fine for them in that first installment.
Again, nothing you are saying is adding up. There is no dying need for Fox to completely change everything about the FF to make it work.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Lol. Love the sig btw.

thanks

 

[Paradox1]

Again, the last several movies were failures because they were not well made. How many damn times do I have to say that? Do you still not get it? It has nothing to do with the source material.
And the comics being cancelled does not say much about the properties appeal since said characters have lasted for 50 some odd years.
Also I'm not convinced they were being cancelled due to poor sales numbers (although the numbers have been down), but due to the ever-growing rift between Fox and Marvel.


"Failed products". Lol.
Again, you can sell something regardless of the "packaging" if it is worth selling. Just because your previous movie did not work does not mean you can't retool it and figure out what went wrong, and then peddle it to the masses again, without making a complete 180 and doing something that is not true to the characters.
Or maybe you didn't hear of a little movie called amazing spider-man? It largely told the same story that had been told ten years earlier, but still made over $700 million. They didn't radically shift the tone or the characters to make them unrecognizable from what had come before, but it seemed to work out just fine for them in that first installment.
Again, nothing you are saying is adding up. There is no dying need for Fox to completely change everything about the FF to make it work.

Wait, so the first two films were bad not because of the tone but because they were bad films. Hmmmm I wonder how you can apply that logic to this film?

 

[Flint Marko]

Wait, so the first two films were bad not because of the tone but because they were bad films. Hmmmm I wonder how you can apply that logic to this film?

I've said before, both here and elsewhere, that this could end up being a well made movie. It just won't end up being a good FF movie, which is what I want more than anything at the end of the day.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Wait, so the first two films were bad not because of the tone but because they were bad films. Hmmmm I wonder how you can apply that logic to this film?

this movie will be bad because of both, don't getting the tone right AND being a bad movie. so it's actually worse than the last efforts