Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - Part 37

[TeeKay]

Because Doombots at this point is a rehash of Avengers:Age of Ultron.

One of the early rumors about the script were that Doombots would be featured, but the promos for the Avengers sequel clearly showed them fighting an army of Ultrons.

Doombots would have certainly made this movie look extremely derivative.

Theres always ways yo make the battles creative and none repeatitive. I know Doom is a powerful villain capable of taking the team on his own. However, Isn't the Doom vs FF derivative as well? It doesn't seem all that different from the '05 film at all. Bleh.

 

[Kelly]

Stan Lee on MBJ as The Torch...

As the indefatigable 92-year-old superhero conjurer and Marvel Comics chairman emeritus sees it, fan backlash up until this point hasn’t so much been spurred on by racism as much as unyielding fealty to the source material. “They’re outraged not because of any personal prejudice,” Lee says. “They’re outraged because they hate to see any change made on a series and characters they had gotten familiar with. In Spider-Man, when they got a new actor, that bothered them, even though it was a white actor. I don’t think it had to do with racial prejudice as much as they don’t like things changed.”
He adds: “But I think they’re gonna get to love this character. So I’m not the least bit worried about it. I always tried to pepper these groups with as much racial diversity as possible because that’s the way the world is.”

 

[wobbly]

Because Doombots at this point is a rehash of Avengers:Age of Ultron.

One of the early rumors about the script were that Doombots would be featured, but the promos for the Avengers sequel clearly showed them fighting an army of Ultrons.

Doombots would have certainly made this movie look extremely derivative.

I might be wrong but I think the 'Doombots' rumored to appear were gonna be like the UFF drone things. Nasty little insect like robots, rather than the 616 type.

Traditional (Old school 616) Doombots (not the ones that look like Doom) are basically like human sized old school Sentinels (Similar designs).

Agreed though that after AOU a repeat of robots being smashed up for fun would be a rehash.

 

[Zarex]

Stan Lee on MBJ as The Torch...

It's not hard to see why these articles are being written so close to the Fant4stic release date. And many, many months after the issue of Jordan's controversial casting was raised and largely dropped. I wouldn't be surprised if "Support Diversity! See Fant4stic in Theaters!" Joins the series of lame motivational posters.

But thanks to the article at least we know that ZackosaurusRex has an issue with diversity. I had long suspected that was the case with Ol' ZR.

 

[Kelly]

It's not hard to see why these articles are being written so close to the Fant4stic release date. And many, many months after the issue of Jordan's controversial casting was raised and largely dropped. I wouldn't be surprised if "Support Diversity! See Fant4stic in Theaters!" Joins the series of lame motivational posters.

But thanks to the article at least we know that ZackosaurusRex has an issue with diversity. I had long suspected that was the case with Ol' ZR.

Actually I posted it because of Stan Lee's take on the issue. I think he hit the bullseye with his comments. I could really care less of Zackowhatever thinks.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

There are certainly other stories and conflicts you can tell with Doom versus the FF, unfortunately the 2 Story films already covered the whole

"Doom eliminates each member individually, but they come together to defeat him in the end"

"Doom steals the power of the Silver Surfer and goes on a tear across the globe"

This movie looks to be of the nature that Doom is threatening the Earth and the FF need to stop him.

 

[Nemeres]

I'm glad Stan Lee thinks so this time, but it's a little different from his Spidey tune from just a while ago.

I wouldn’t mind, if Peter Parker had originally been black, a Latino, an Indian or anything else, that he stay that way. But we originally made him white. I don’t see any reason to change that. / It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that. Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself.

Make up your mind, cheerleader Stan. If it's ok with Human Torch, it should be ok with Spidey too.

 

[YourFewcha]

it's cool for stan to publicly support MBJ as the HT but i get the feeling he supports anything involving marvel films from any studio

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm glad Stan Lee thinks so this time, but it's a little different from his Spidey tune from just a while ago.



Make up your mind, cheerleader Stan. If it's ok with Human Torch, it should be ok with Spidey too.

Both statements are perfectly consistent. He and the fans don't like arbitrary changes, but he and the fans can get over it.

The only people who haven't gotten over it at this point are people who are trying to use the whole thing as a promotional device.

 

[Quasar]

I don't believe I'm familiar with these groups that Stan Lee peppered with diversity. Do we have any examples?

 

[Boom]

The filmmakers are still harping on the race change?

Seems to me most everybody else has moved on.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't believe I'm familiar with these groups that Stan Lee peppered with diversity. Do we have any examples?

The Avengers and X-Men were reasonably diverse. The FF had a Native American as best friend. I think the Marvel Universe is fairly diverse. I don't know if it statistically matches the racial make-up of the time, but the racial make-up of the time was different than it is now.

 

[VictorDomashev]

Perhaps Stan is trying to get on Fox's good side for more cameo spots ? Either way Stan Lee seems to happily forget what he said about Spidey. Perhaps someone should remind him ?

 

[Nemeres]

Both statements are perfectly consistent. He and the fans don't like arbitrary changes, but he and the fans can get over it.

The only people who haven't gotten over it at this point are people who are trying to use the whole thing as a promotional device.

They're really not. If it's something that easy to get over of and accept, there's no reason he should be arguing in instance A against the very thing he now says he's excited about in instance B, diversity reflective of the real world.

 

[Val_Zod]

Changing the ethnicity of a character isn't as dire as these news outlets make it out to be. Will Smith as Deadshot, Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One, and Ben Kingsley(Before we learned of the twist) see little to no negative feedback. The Johnny Storm casting would have been the same if everything else we saw was great. Heck even lmore so if Sue was cast with an african american as well.

Sure there are people who don't want to see the film due to his casting and are outraged, but they are a vast minority of the sea of problems people have with this production.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here, let's try an experiment:

"I wouldn’t mind, if Peter Parker had originally been black, a Latino, an Indian or anything else, that he stay that way. But we originally made him white. I don’t see any reason to change that. / It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that. Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself."

When asked specifically about the fan's reaction to Michael B. Jordon playing Johnny Storm, Lee said this:

“They’re outraged not because of any personal prejudice. They’re outraged because they hate to see any change made on a series and characters they had gotten familiar with. In Spider-Man, when they got a new actor, that bothered them, even though it was a white actor. I don’t think it had to do with racial prejudice as much as they don’t like things changed.
But I think they’re gonna get to love this character. So I’m not the least bit worried about it. I always tried to pepper these groups with as much racial diversity as possible because that’s the way the world is.”

I can imagine both those statements coming directly from the same exact interview, and I don't see anything contradictory there.

 

[Dasher10]

The Avengers and X-Men were reasonably diverse. The FF had a Native American as best friend. I think the Marvel Universe is fairly diverse. I don't know if it statistically matches the racial make-up of the time, but the racial make-up of the time was different than it is now.

The Avengers and X-Men were always diverse teams.

The Avengers have War Machine, Falcon, Spectrum, Shang Chi, Silverclaw, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Blue Marvel and Blade.

The X-Men have Storm, Warpath, Dust, Bishop, Psylocke, Magma, Jubilee, Rictor, Sunspot, M, Surge, Armor, Greystone, Sunfire and Gateway.

That's always been the Marvel Universe as I've known it.

I can see why they'd change the Fantastic Four though since they're the only all-white team in the Marvel U. It wouldn't be an issue if Marvel approved a crossover with the X-Men before the film was cast or if the FF were part of the MCU but what's done is done. MBJ is a good actor and I don't see another reboot for a good, long time if this fails. Remember how long it was between Daredevil adaptations and how Marvel are in no rush to reboot Ghost Rider?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

lets also not pretend that Stan (as much as i love him) opinions matter either way.. the man "likes" and approves of everything in these films.. he never says anything negative... period.. he even spoke highly of the past Tim Story films, and even X3...

 

[Orba]

The Avengers and X-Men were always diverse teams.

The Avengers have War Machine, Falcon, Spectrum, Shang Chi, Silverclaw, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Blue Marvel and Blade.

The X-Men have Storm, Warpath, Dust, Bishop, Psylocke, Magma, Jubilee, Rictor, Sunspot, M, Surge, Armor, Greystone, Sunfire and Gateway.

That's always been the Marvel Universe as I've known it.

I can see why they'd change the Fantastic Four though since they're the only all-white team in the Marvel U. It wouldn't be an issue if Marvel approved a crossover with the X-Men before the film was cast or if the FF were part of the MCU but what's done is done. MBJ is a good actor and I don't see another reboot for a good, long time if this fails. Remember how long it was between Daredevil adaptations and how Marvel are in no rush to reboot Ghost Rider?

Don't forget that most of that diversity came after Stan Lee finished writing them.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

lets also not pretend that Stan (as much as i love him) opinions matter either way.. the man "likes" and approves of everything in these films.. he never says anything negative... period.. he even spoke highly of the past Tim Story films, and even X3...

Exactly. If you got him alone, over a beer, completely off the record, I suspect he'd give you an earful about what he thinks of what they're doing with FF and I'd bet he'd say some of the same things we've been saying.

But he's not going to crap all over a film a week and a half before release.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm sure if he had a few beers, he'd tell you that he did most of the heavy lifting in creating the Fantastic Four too.

 

[VictorDomashev]

Here, let's try an experiment:

"I wouldn’t mind, if Peter Parker had originally been black, a Latino, an Indian or anything else, that he stay that way. But we originally made him white. I don’t see any reason to change that. / It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that. Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself."

When asked specifically about the fan's reaction to Michael B. Jordon playing Johnny Storm, Lee said this:

“They’re outraged not because of any personal prejudice. They’re outraged because they hate to see any change made on a series and characters they had gotten familiar with. In Spider-Man, when they got a new actor, that bothered them, even though it was a white actor. I don’t think it had to do with racial prejudice as much as they don’t like things changed.
But I think they’re gonna get to love this character. So I’m not the least bit worried about it. I always tried to pepper these groups with as much racial diversity as possible because that’s the way the world is.”

I can imagine both those statements coming directly from the same exact interview, and I don't see anything contradictory there.

Saying one thing in one interview & saying get over the change in another interview is contradictory. He is basically saying he would not get over Peter Parker being anything but white. But he can get over Johnny Storm not being white. What makes Johnny Storm the exception here ?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm sure if he had a few beers, he'd tell you that he did most of the heavy lifting in creating the Fantastic Four too.

I wouldn't be surprised, but there certainly won't be much Jack Kirby or Stan Lee in this film.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Saying one thing in one interview & saying get over the change in another interview is contradictory. He is basically saying he would not get over Peter Parker being anything but white. But he can get over Johnny Storm not being white. What makes Johnny Storm the exception here ?

Let's not hang him on your interpretation of what he said. Let's look at what he actually said:

"I don’t see any reason to change that."

What specific statement in his recent comments contradict the idea: "I don't see any reason to change that." ?

 

[Flint Marko]

The filmmakers are still harping on the race change?

Seems to me most everybody else has moved on.

It's a nice deflection from the real issues. As it stands I see little to no complaining about it. I'm personally looking forward to MBJ in the role if I ever do get around to seeing this movie.