Fant4stic Fantastic Four Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 5

[Spiderine]

Even Jackman wanted Wolverine to tussle in the MCU. Its exciting to see these characters interact.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Daaaammmn...it's like a hornet's nest went OFF in here. Stingers are OUT.

You guys and gals should ease up a bit on X-Maniac--he's just stating his perception of things like the rest of us. I'm sure no harm or foul to us as a board was intended.

I think I may have over-reacted partly because we've had two years of people with 'X-Men' based user-names and avatars popping in here and posting complete nonsense such as "it's all about race" or "you wouldn't be complaining about these things if it was Marvel" instead of addressing the real concerns and issues we've been seeing and discussing. X-Maniac probably got more than his/her share of frustration that has built up related to a large class of Hype posters who seem to see insults to Trank and company as insults to the X-men.

 

[Spiderine]

People came hard on the J. Hnny casting but lets be real. None of the casting in this film generated excitement and anticipation especially for me. Thats the first thing that gets the buzz after the director who also got mixed reaction mainly negative. None of them appeared to embody the characters at all.


Bridges cast as a villain hell yeah
Spider cast as Ultron. Hell yeah
Rourke as a villain hell yeah
Kinsley as the Mandarin. Hell yeah

No matter how badly u may think they ****ed some characters they generated positive buzz and excitement for those films. Thats important.

I would invite anyone here to tell us they were overjoyed with the initial casting in the beginning. It will be very few.

 

[SyntaxError]

So Kevin Feige has earned independence from the penny-pinching Ike Perlmutter and has even more control over Marvel Studios over at Disney now.

Does that increase the probability of a deal with Fox happening? I should hope so.

 

[InCali]

So Kevin Feige has earned independence from the penny-pinching Ike Perlmutter and has even more control over Marvel Studios over at Disney now.

Does that increase the probability of a deal with Fox happening? I should hope so.

What's the story on that? That would be smart move on Disney's part. I had heard the opposite.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So Kevin Feige has earned independence from the penny-pinching Ike Perlmutter and has even more control over Marvel Studios over at Disney now.

Does that increase the probability of a deal with Fox happening? I should hope so.

I think any change at Fox or Marvel at this point is a positive sign related to the very specific topic of FF rights. And since we know there was particular bad-blood between Perlmutter and Fox, this might not only open a door, but could indicate something is happening behind the scenes related to FF rights.

Some of you may not remember but back when Steve Jobs owned Pixar and Michael Eisner was CEO of Disney and the two of them didn't like each other. When Disney's 'lease' on Pixar expired, Jobs and Eisner couldn't come to an agreement and, for a brief time, Pixar and Disney were two completely separate entities. Shortly after that, Eisner was booted (partly because of his mis-handling of Pixar) and then Disney bought Pixar.

So there is precedent within this industry of bad-blood between managers getting in the way of deals and changes in management creating roads for new co-operation.

 

[Demileto]

What's the story on that? That would be smart move on Disney's part. I had heard the opposite.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/marvel-shake-up-film-chief-819205

 

[X-Maniac]

I think I may have over-reacted partly because we've had two years of people with 'X-Men' based user-names and avatars popping in here and posting complete nonsense such as "it's all about race" or "you wouldn't be complaining about these things if it was Marvel" instead of addressing the real concerns and issues we've been seeing and discussing. X-Maniac probably got more than his/her share of frustration that has built up related to a large class of Hype posters who seem to see insults to Trank and company as insults to the X-men.

I talked about perceptions on forums and social media in my original post, then you ranted on about the perceptions in this section of SHH. I was talking primarily about stuff in my Facebook feed, and in comic book forums on Facebook, and mostly what I read in the comments rather than the articles that were posted. The comic book fans on Facebook did seem to zoom in on the black Torch casting and not really mention much else.

This section of SHH became such a cesspool of hatred and negativity that many people stayed away so I am not aware of all the discussion that went on in here.

But it's quite clear that you all seem to gang up on anyone who doesn't spew bile and trash the movie in some sort of crazy temper tantrum.

People are entitled to like the movie, defend the movie, and (as I did) present some other perceptions and thoughts. People in here are DESPERATE for Fox to pull the movie from cinemas, they are utterly and totally desperate for that to happen. I added in the more realistic view that Fox would milk the movie for all it was worth, leaving it in cinemas as long as they can to try to get back as much budget as possible, and then I was attacked over saying that. I mentioned that Ant-Man had finished at my nearest cinema and someone went berserk over that as though that somehow amounted to support for the F4. WTF?!

You all need to stop being so hateful towards those who offer a different - and probably far more realistic - perspective. This pitchfork mentality is ridiculous.

This is just a geek bubble at the end of the day. Real life is going on unchanged.

 

[InCali]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/marvel-shake-up-film-chief-819205

Thanks for that. Man, this Perlmutter guy sounds like a real tool. I don't know a lot of these people. I just want to see a good movie, but that sounds like very good news. Feige has, rightfully, built up a good cache of influence.

Perlmutter: Hey, press guy!! That's your second soda! You're only allowed one!

Press Guy: Shut the frell up you cheap SOB and get me a freakin' martini.

 

[Flint Marko]

A deal between Fox and Marvel isn't looking any more likely if you ask me. Fox is the problem, a shake-up at Disney won't change their pettiness. They've turned down offers from Marvel out of spite before, I have no doubt they'd do it again.

 

[InCali]

I talked about perceptions on forums and social media in my original post, then you ranted on about the perceptions in this section of SHH. I was talking primarily about stuff in my Facebook feed, and in comic book forums on Facebook, and mostly what I read in the comments rather than the articles that were posted. The comic book fans on Facebook did seem to zoom in on the black Torch casting and not really mention much else.

This section of SHH became such a cesspool of hatred and negativity that many people stayed away so I am not aware of all the discussion that went on in here.

But it's quite clear that you all seem to gang up on anyone who doesn't spew bile and trash the movie in some sort of crazy temper tantrum.

People are entitled to like the movie, defend the movie, and (as I did) present some other perceptions and thoughts. People in here are DESPERATE for Fox to pull the movie from cinemas, they are utterly and totally desperate for that to happen. I added in the more realistic view that Fox would milk the movie for all it was worth, leaving it in cinemas as long as they can to try to get back as much budget as possible, and then I was attacked over saying that. I mentioned that Ant-Man had finished at my nearest cinema and someone went berserk over that as though that somehow amounted to support for the F4. WTF?!

You all need to stop being so hateful towards those who offer a different - and probably far more realistic - perspective. This pitchfork mentality is ridiculous.

This is just a geek bubble at the end of the day. Real life is going on unchanged.

I'm always amused when people put their perceptions on other people. I can only speak for myself. The word "desperate" with regard to wanting the FF to get pulled from theaters isn't close to how I feel because they could expand it and all that would happen is that we'd see an increase in almost empty theaters. Given my perception of the movie (which I haven't seen and don't think I need to), I'm glad it failed miserably and the more miserably, the better in my book. Leaving the theaters early is part of that failure and the more failures the merrier.

Hate?? No. I want this movie to fail like a cold fusion device because I want to see a good FF movie and I think Fox has proven they can't deliver. Up until the last week before opening, I was holding out hope that the movie might be good and planned to see it opening day. Then, with the embargo and reviews, I decided not to spend my money to see it. I don't have to jump off a building to figure out what will happen if I do.

 

[Flint Marko]

I talked about perceptions on forums and social media in my original post, then you ranted on about the perceptions in this section of SHH. I was talking primarily about stuff in my Facebook feed, and in comic book forums on Facebook, and mostly what I read in the comments rather than the articles that were posted. The comic book fans on Facebook did seem to zoom in on the black Torch casting and not really mention much else.

This section of SHH became such a cesspool of hatred and negativity that many people stayed away so I am not aware of all the discussion that went on in here.

But it's quite clear that you all seem to gang up on anyone who doesn't spew bile and trash the movie in some sort of crazy temper tantrum.

People are entitled to like the movie, defend the movie, and (as I did) present some other perceptions and thoughts. People in here are DESPERATE for Fox to pull the movie from cinemas, they are utterly and totally desperate for that to happen. I added in the more realistic view that Fox would milk the movie for all it was worth, leaving it in cinemas as long as they can to try to get back as much budget as possible, and then I was attacked over saying that. I mentioned that Ant-Man had finished at my nearest cinema and someone went berserk over that as though that somehow amounted to support for the F4. WTF?!

You all need to stop being so hateful towards those who offer a different - and probably far more realistic - perspective. This pitchfork mentality is ridiculous.

This is just a geek bubble at the end of the day. Real life is going on unchanged.

You also argued that no one knew how the movie would turn out before we saw it. That is demonstrably incorrect.
And, again, who here was arguing that Fox wasn't going to milk it for all it was worth? Where's the desperation you speak of?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I talked about perceptions on forums and social media in my original post, then you ranted on about the perceptions in this section of SHH. I was talking primarily about stuff in my Facebook feed, and in comic book forums on Facebook, and mostly what I read in the comments rather than the articles that were posted. The comic book fans on Facebook did seem to zoom in on the black Torch casting and not really mention much else.

This section of SHH became such a cesspool of hatred and negativity that many people stayed away so I am not aware of all the discussion that went on in here.

But it's quite clear that you all seem to gang up on anyone who doesn't spew bile and trash the movie in some sort of crazy temper tantrum.

People are entitled to like the movie, defend the movie, and (as I did) present some other perceptions and thoughts. People in here are DESPERATE for Fox to pull the movie from cinemas, they are utterly and totally desperate for that to happen. I added in the more realistic view that Fox would milk the movie for all it was worth, leaving it in cinemas as long as they can to try to get back as much budget as possible, and then I was attacked over saying that. I mentioned that Ant-Man had finished at my nearest cinema and someone went berserk over that as though that somehow amounted to support for the F4. WTF?!

You all need to stop being so hateful towards those who offer a different - and probably far more realistic - perspective. This pitchfork mentality is ridiculous.

This is just a geek bubble at the end of the day. Real life is going on unchanged.

I'm glad you posted this because I was afraid that I had over-reacted initially.

But now I see that you really do have nothing to say and aren't worth my time.

 

[InCali]

A deal between Fox and Marvel isn't looking any more likely if you ask me. Fox is the problem, a shake-up at Disney won't change their pettiness. They've turned down offers from Marvel out of spite before, I have no doubt they'd do it again.

Personal issues can get in the way of deals. I used to negotiate substantial labor contracts with the University of California and personal clashes can definitely derail negotiations. Let's hope this is a positive sign.

Here's a memorable example of an exchange between chief negotiators; one for the Union and the other for the University.

UC Negotiator: Look LS (name changed to protect the funny), this isn't my first rodeo. I've negotiated first contracts before.

LS: Oh yeah. I heard about that one. The difference here is that we aren't going to get married after these negotiations are over.

I almost blew out my sinuses trying to stifle a laugh.

 

[X-Maniac]

You also argued that no one knew how the movie would turn out before we saw it. That is demonstrably incorrect.
And, again, who here was arguing that Fox wasn't going to milk it for all it was worth? Where's the desperation you speak of?

Well, it is true that no one KNEW how the movie would turn out.

In here, you all stacked up the various bits of info and rumours and decided it was almost certainly going to be a stinker, and that's fair enough. Judgments were made. But no one KNEW for sure.

For those who feel vindicated that their assessment was the right one, that's great. No one is knocking that.

But not everyone felt the same.

Let's just hope Fox and the F4 team learn a lesson.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm glad you posted this because I was afraid that I had over-reacted initially.

But now I see that you really do have nothing to say and aren't worth my time.

You did overreact somewhat. Put down the pitchfork and try to be a bit more realistic.

Perhaps when you get a shocking personal tragedy / family bereavement to deal with, as I have, it will also realign your warped perspective and stop you from unfairly targeting anyone who doesn't follow your exact way of thinking. Here's hoping.

 

[Eddie]

Give me a break. Most of the people here are adults. Adults have personal tragedies in their life. It's a sad fact of life. Don't stir the pot and try to hide behind that when things don't go your way. It's been the same nonsense over and over again from fans of a single property that want to stir **** up in the Fantastic Four forum.

 

[InCali]

Well, it is true that no one KNEW how the movie would turn out.

In here, you all stacked up the various bits of info and rumours and decided it was almost certainly going to be a stinker, and that's fair enough. Judgments were made. But no one KNEW for sure.

For those who feel vindicated that their assessment was the right one, that's great. No one is knocking that.

But not everyone felt the same.

Let's just hope Fox and the F4 team learn a lesson.

Wulllllll......let's just erase the word "KNEW" from our entire vocabulary since no one ever really "KNEW" anything since we've been on earth as a species. I didn't "KNOW" that the sun would rise today.

I'm personally sorry that you have recently suffered a personal loss. Most of us (I think) have and that's the part of life that sucks. What I find most annoying is that you seem comfortable using words like Hate and Desperate to describe people's feelings when they haven't used those words themselves. I try to go by what people say and not what I think they think because I don't KNOW what's going on inside their head.

Most people on this thread seem to have wanted FF to fail because the movie looked like it was going to suck and if it did and still made money, we'd be in line for a crappy sequel. Some wanted it to fail period. I'm not entirely sure why and I'll let them speak for themselves, but maybe they want to see FF in a movie with The Avengers fighting Thanos or something along those lines (yeah, I know that ain't happening) and know that won't happen as long as Fox has FF rights.

 

[Suzanne78]

Garfield is also saying he wanted the films to be in the MCU. Kebbell already said he wanted to fight Thor. Even the actors understand Marvel's characters are intended to coexist...

This really does make me sad, that Garfield will miss out playing Spidey with Marvel Studios, and yet, he was part of the franchise directly responsible in bringing Spidey home. Kebbell is a talented actor who seemed to be super jazzed about Doom and what Doom's role in the greater Marvel Universe should've been. And both of them were screwed over big time, by creative decisions/studio mishaps/etc.

I still cannot believe Fox managed to give us a worse FF movie than the duology. And that Chris Evans is the definitive Johnny Storm. Damn.

 

[Suzanne78]

So Kevin Feige has earned independence from the penny-pinching Ike Perlmutter and has even more control over Marvel Studios over at Disney now.

Does that increase the probability of a deal with Fox happening? I should hope so.

That was my first reaction to the news. There's got to be some BTS negotiations happening.

 

[InCali]

This really does make me sad, that Garfield will miss out playing Spidey with Marvel Studios, and yet, he was part of the franchise directly responsible in bringing Spidey home. Kebbell is a talented actor who seemed to be super jazzed about Doom and what Doom's role in the greater Marvel Universe should've been. And both of them were screwed over big time, by creative decisions/studio mishaps/etc.

I still cannot believe Fox managed to give us a worse FF movie than the duology. And that Chris Evans is the definitive Johnny Storm. Damn.

I really liked Chris at HT and wish he'd been on my hall when I lived at UC Santa Cruz. Woulda been a hoot. Hell, it was fun anyway.

 

[Erzengel]

We've had over 18 years in this modern comic book era, if you start it off with Blade.

We've had misses with GL, Elektra, Catwoman, Wolverine Origins etc.

We've had hits with Avengers, TDK, DOFP, etc.

And we've had stuff in the middle. I'd say like 90% of time, because we've had over at least 60 CBMs, you can pretty much gauge how a movie is going to be like.

I was wrong about DOFP, I know a bunch of people here were wrong about Guardians of the Galaxy. But, I think most of the time you can see the writing on the wall.

 

[TeeKay]

You know what X-Maniac? Since you admitted you hadn't been following the production of this flick. You really have no idea what you're talking about to be honest. Having a differing opinion is well and good. You're allowed to have that. But don't question the people here who are huge FF fans and have been following this film since it was announced and everything that ensued after. Because everything we feared about this film, came out true.

To come and say "nobody KNEW how the film would turn out" is naivety at its best considering what we knew so far. So let me break it down for you. This post I made in 2014..
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29630033&postcount=126

Several things worry me about the film: Trank lied SEVERAL times about the production/casting, Completely mixed messages from Fox/Kinberg (one minute it's connected to X Men, next it's not. Millar brought on board to help out, now it's Kinberg's job.), Jordan basically admitting that their making it up as they go along Cheap cast, Trank deleting his twitter, Shoestring budget, Little to ZERO on location shooting, The movie obviously being made with the sole purpose of keeping the rights (a la TASM). Not to mention Fox keeping the movie far as **** away from the X Men franchise the moment it became successful again (originally they dangled the crossover thing frequently, in an attempt to get Avengers buzz). ZERO presence at either of the last comic cons. No 'official' synopsis. Not even a logo.

All of that^^ doesn't inspire any confidence at all. Not to mention that they won't even be called the Fantastic Four in the film. Not having even name the team is such weak and cowardly ******** to say the least.

Then Bleeding cool broke the story that Frank had been fired and Fox wanted to replace him. People called ******** that of course and the funny thing is, that turned out to be true after all. Then you had Josh Frank being fired from Star Wars and being locked out of the FF editing room. Again all these were confirmed to be true. Then you had Kinberg and Frank lie about the reshoots which basically reshot the entire 3rd act of the film. All of this confirmed. Kinberg then went on to say the film was not a "disaster" lol Of course then you had the embargo being put a day before release. Now several trades broke that embargo right away and everything we had predicted came true. The film was Rilped apart by critics and the final nail in the coffin, Trank burnt bridges with Fox. Then it was all down hill from there. So to say nobody knew? We all knew, some won't admit it of course but we knew that this was gonna suck. I probably Missed a few other red flags from this train wreck but yeah, I'll speak for myself and the FF fans. WE SAW THIS COMING.

You weren't even in these forums to really know what went down as you admitted. So yeah you're gonna be treated as such because at this point I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. I remember another poster who came in here and basically do what you're doing herw when he hadn't been following the film either. I don't think you get the what most of us went through over the past couple of months.

 

[Zarex]

You did overreact somewhat. Put down the pitchfork and try to be a bit more realistic.

Perhaps when you get a shocking personal tragedy / family bereavement to deal with, as I have, it will also realign your warped perspective and stop you from unfairly targeting anyone who doesn't follow your exact way of thinking. Here's hoping.

Here's hoping that you grow the hell up and come to realize that you are not the only person on this board who has ever suffered a loss.

Luckily, you have a safe haven over on the X-boards. Where no one is ever unfairly targeted for not following the standard way of thinking.

 

[X-Maniac]

That's all well and good, but leaping on people who have other perspectives isn't cool.

To be honest, I'm glad i wasn't following all that stuff. I had a few worries about the movie, wondered if they really could botch it up so much (in a time without Rothman and just after DoFP), then saw it, thought it was a misfire, and that was about it.

I then came in here to see what the latest rumours etc were about the future of the franchise. Yes, I'm debating in here and chiming in with my perceptions about social media, and my suspicion that Fox will leave it in cinemas as long as possible and not cut their losses immediately, but mostly I'm wondering how they screwed it up and what they will do next.