"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 1

[souvlaki]

Apparently Sanders left his press corp behind in PA and flew back to Vermont tonight for a conference call too. I think it's potentially over next week.

 

[Victarion]

Do you have a clip of it?

What are the odds Bernie could endear himself enough to Hillary to get a spot as VP? I don't necessarily like the guy, but if he wants to keep his movement going strong, it seems like angling for a position that would let him make change from within would be the best bet.

 

[childeroland]

She'll probably pick someone like Thomas Perez. Someone adored by the left without the baggage.

 

[souvlaki]

Do you have a clip of it?

edit: direct link. No You Tube clip that I can find yet:

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/1757302

 

[DDS]

Do you have a clip of it?

What are the odds Bernie could endear himself enough to Hillary to get a spot as VP? I don't necessarily like the guy, but if he wants to keep his movement going strong, it seems like angling for a position that would let him make change from within would be the best bet.

I'd love that but it won't happen with how hard they've been hitting each other now.

 

[Marvolo]

The name I keep seeing thrown around for Hillary's VP is Julian Castro.

 

[Marvolo]

edit: direct link. No You Tube clip that I can find yet:

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/1757302

That man is in hardcore denial.

 

[redhawk23]

I noticed that as well and nobody called him out on it. I was like dang I would have liked to pay that tax rate. Here he is talking about raising my taxes (I make around $60,000 as a single filer) and he's paying a less percentage than me while making over 200k? Sorry, that's a scumbag.

Show me again where the 60,000 tax bracket faces tax hikes?

 

[souvlaki]

Double post

 

[souvlaki]

That man is in hardcore denial.

The entire Sanders campaign is. I figured the rhetoric would lighten up and the first thing I heard on my drive to work this morning is Sanders talking about disenfranchised voters in New York and him having a path to the nomination. I'm not debating there were a few odd things that had nothing to do with Clinton in regards to vote registration but by bringing it up as a rationale to continue his campaign its implying (maybe not outright so) Clinton is rigging the system which is harmful for bringing the party together. Meanwhile, his campaign manager is discussing flipping super delegates even if Clinton is leading in delegates in July which way worse than any inevitable glitches in state run elections. I really had no problem with Bernie up until a month or so ago as while I thought his goals were unrealistic he was pushing Hillary to the left, and started a discussion ehich I think she needed. As soon as he went negative and flat out delusional about how he was going to win though it really turned me off big time.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Ive been getting told Im an uneducated minority since the Sanders campaign started gaining steam

it's doubling down now

 

[Matt]

Do you have a clip of it?

What are the odds Bernie could endear himself enough to Hillary to get a spot as VP? I don't necessarily like the guy, but if he wants to keep his movement going strong, it seems like angling for a position that would let him make change from within would be the best bet.

Not high. Any chance Sanders had of being chosen (which was small to begin with as he doesn't balance the ticket at all, if anything he hurts it) was washed away when his campaign embraced vitriol filled tirades. He has painted Clinton as a right of Reagan Republican in Democrat clothing, who is at best corrupt and power hungry and at worst is a criminal. His rhetoric has gotten far too intense to move away from. There is no way to bring him on the ticket.

She'll probably pick someone like Thomas Perez. Someone adored by the left without the baggage.

He's possible, but I don't think she'll go that way. I think if she goes Latino, it will be Julian Castro as he is better situated to become the face of the party than Perez.

I think if she goes liberal in an attempt to catch the Bernie crowd, she will go Senator Sherrod Brown. He has more liberal credentials than Bernie but is also a loyal party guy. He has been incredibly effective in Congress. Plus, being a very popular Senator in a key swing state certainly doesn't hurt his prospects. And, cynical though it may sound, she probably does need a white man on the ticket. In fact, that is why I don't think Clinton will go for Castro or Perez. I think she needs a white man (especially if Trump is planning to run a campaign of xenophobia and misogyny).

That said, Brown is pretty old. Clinton/Brown would not have much by way of energy or excitement. That is why I still think Clinton will go with Martin Heinrich, the junior Senator of New Mexico. He is a rising star in the party. He was one of Clinton's first major endorsers (he started working for her, behind the scenes, as early as 2014). He is energetic, smart, young, handsome, and charismatic. He is been in the public eye long enough to be vetted. And he is moderate enough to balance the ticket so that Clinton can continue her shift to the left without being accused of flip-flopping by making a sudden play to the center.

 

[Matt]

The entire Sanders campaign is. I figured the rhetoric would lighten up and the first thing I heard on my drive to work this morning is Sanders talking about disenfranchised voters in New York and him having a path to the nomination. I'm not debating there were a few odd things that had nothing to do with Clinton in regards to vote registration but by bringing it up as a rationale to continue his campaign its implying (maybe not outright so) Clinton is rigging the system which is harmful for bringing the party together. Meanwhile, his campaign manager is discussing flipping super delegates even if Clinton is leading in delegates in July which way worse than any inevitable glitches in state run elections. I really had no problem with Bernie up until a month or so ago as while I thought his goals were unrealistic he was pushing Hillary to the left, and started a discussion ehich I think she needed. As soon as he went negative and flat out delusional about how he was going to win though it really turned me off big time.

As I said in the other thread, its really time for Sanders to call it quits. With every loss and bit of bad news, his campaign becomes all the more vile and desperate. This past week especially, the way he behaved cuts against his message.

With that desperation comes hypocrisy to boot. It is mathematically impossible for him to win the nomination. So what is his answer? Target super delegates. This stinks of hypocrisy because since the beginning the Sanders camp has criticized the super delegate system as a subversion of democracy that goes against the will of the people.

So in other words, the guy who claims to be the champion of the people and has spent nearly a year saying that the super delegates should bend to the will of the people is no saying "they should overrule the people because I am more electable." Putting aside the fact that Sanders' seems to believe that losing an election to a person somehow makes you more electable than the person who beat you, the hypocrisy of all of it is apparent. This hypocrisy undercuts his message and makes him come off as no different from any other politician. He will do and say anything to gain power. So much for that revolution and him being different.

Sanders has reached the point where he his coming off as a petulant child, constantly screaming conspiracy theories and then plugging his ears, closing his eyes, and stomping his feet while shouting "BLAH BLAH BLAH! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" to anyone who calls him out on anything from the non-viability of his platform to the mathematical improbability of him winning the race. Then, despite all of the hypocrisy he has shown and venom he has spewed, he has the nerve to talk down to others and lecture them about the exact stunts he is pulling...all while condescending anyone who disagrees with, calling them naive. He has essentially become the worst type of Bernie Bro.

 

[summerteeth]

Show me again where the 60,000 tax bracket faces tax hikes?

Everyone will face a 2.2% premium tax for "Medicare for All". Considering I already have 100% paid for medical coverage from my employer this would be an additional cost for me and a full 2.2% tax increase for me. It's one of the reasons why I chose this job over some others.

I really don't know how you don't know this. There would also be a 6.2% tax increase on employers to pay for the Medicare for All and a .2% tax for family leave. So I doubt I would be getting a raise since they have to pay an additional tax as well.

 

[redhawk23]

Everyone will face a 2.2% premium tax for "Medicare for All". Considering I already have 100% paid for medical coverage from my employer this would be an additional cost for me and a full 2.2% tax increase for me. It's one of the reasons why I chose this job over some others.

I really don't know how you don't know this. There would also be a 6.2% tax increase on employers to pay for the Medicare for All and a .2% tax for family leave. So I doubt I would be getting a raise since they have to pay an additional tax as well.

This ignores the off set of having to pay for health insurance or alternatively the fee for not having health insurance which the Supreme court justified as a tax.

 

[Marvolo]

Clinton now has 502 super delegates. Bernie now has a whopping 38.

 

[Matt]

Clinton now has 502 super delegates. Bernie now has a whopping 38.

That's alright! He is going to steal those super delegates away by arguing that losing by twenty point deficits in key battleground states somehow makes him the more electable of the two.

 

[summerteeth]

This ignores the off set of having to pay for health insurance or alternatively the fee for not having health insurance which the Supreme court justified as a tax.

Right...but like I said I have health insurance and don't pay a dime towards it so it is a tax increase for me.

 

[Marvolo]

That's alright! He is going to steal those super delegates away by arguing that losing by twenty point deficits in key battleground states somehow makes him the more electable of the two.

Is that before or after he wins the rest of the north east and takes half the delegates in California?

Keep hope alive.

 

[Marvolo]

Right...but like I said I have health insurance and don't pay a dime towards it so it is a tax increase for me.

If we had government provided medicare for all, I think most employers would stop providing health insurance and they sure as **** wouldnt pay for their employees health insurance so you wouldnt have free health insurance anymore even from your employer.

And even if we dont get medicare for all there is no guarantee your employer will always pay for your health insurance or that you will always have that job. At least with medicaire for all your access to medical care isnt tied up in your employment. Id pay 2.2% out of my paycheck if it guaranteed I wouldnt lose my health insurance if I were laid off or fired or had to quit my job.

 

[summerteeth]

If we had gocwrnment provided medicare for all, most employers would stop providing health insurance and they sure as **** wouldnt pay for their employees health insurance so you wouldnt have free health insurance anymore even from your employer.

Yes...I realize...this that's why a 2.2% tax would cost me money. Not sure what you are getting at here. I'd be paying over 1,000 for a product I currently pay zero for...

 

[Kelly]

I'd love that but it won't happen with how hard they've been hitting each other now.

That doesn't always matter, ie Reagan and Bush, there was certainly no love loss there....but it would be a mistake to go with Bernie, she needs someone that can bring in more of the independent voters that tend to be right of center. She doesn't need to bring in someone for the far left, they are going to vote for whomever the candidate is that has a (D) next to their name....they want to keep the White House so they will vote. But she has to pull in those just right of center people that are looking at Cruz and Trump and cringing...she can get those votes if she picks the right VP, and a far left liberal will not do that....

 

[Marvolo]

Yes...I realize...this that's why a 2.2% tax would cost me money. Not sure what you are getting at here. I'd be paying over 1,000 for a product I currently pay zero for...

There is no guarantee your employer will always pay for your health insurance or that you will always have that job. At least with medicaire for all your access to medical care isnt tied up in your employment. Id pay 2.2% out of my paycheck if it guaranteed I wouldnt lose my health insurance if I were laid off or fired or had to quit my job.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

That doesn't always matter, ie Reagan and Bush, there was certainly no love loss there....but it would be a mistake to go with Bernie, she needs someone that can bring in more of the independent voters that tend to be right of center. She doesn't need to bring in someone for the far left, they are going to vote for whomever the candidate is that has a (D) next to their name....they want to keep the White House so they will vote. But she has to pull in those just right of center people that are looking at Cruz and Trump and cringing...she can get those votes if she picks the right VP, and a far left liberal will not do that....

If there is one thing Hillary knows how to do it's play the game. Bernie really needs to just drop out now. It's kind of sad and once he started trying to play dirty (way too late I might add) then I pretty much lost the respect I had for him. If he was going to do that he should have hit her hard from the beginning but only doing so after the writing was on the wall was just stupid.

 

[souvlaki]

If there is one thing Hillary knows how to do it's play the game. Bernie really needs to just drop out now. It's kind of sad and once he started trying to play dirty (way too late I might add) then I pretty much lost the respect I had for him. If he was going to do that he should have hit her hard from the beginning but only doing so after the writing was on the wall was just stupid.

Yeah, I had no serious issues with him until he went on the attack long past the time it was clear he wouldn't win. People like to throw out that Clinton did the same thing eight years ago but I hated her then for it too. For some reason I expected Sanders to drop out or at least hold back the attacks after it was obvious tge delegate math wasn't in his favor. The desperation during the NY primary lowered my opinion of him significantly.