"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 2

[Paradoxium]

Main point? A chunk of Bernie supporters are going to retaliate against Clinton by voting Trump.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Latinos are only like around 10 percent of the voters. They are not the biggest bloc. Maybe the fastest growing, but not the biggest.

And his article did imply that Bernie was racist, along with all white male progressives. Way too much singling out just white people.

Bernie is right though. We already win the female and non whites. If were going to expand we got one place left to go.

Except the author isn't doing that. He isn't calling white male progressives who support change for disaffected groups sexist or racists, he's just saying that they're not the ones who can effectively lead the movement. And that's because even though they are admirably sympathetic to the cause, they're not the ones who are being affected by economic and social discrimination. And it doesn't help when many of these white male progressives act like they deserve a free pass for their own behavior or pretend that they're down with the brothas.

And the Sanders campaign deserves a lot of criticism for the way they allowed the Bernouts to act. While you could make a strong argument that Sanders would be the best candidate for blacks, the Bernouts acted like Sanders was entitled to their vote and that black people should know their place. The Sanders campaign was very tone deaf on how to approach the black community, treating the problems associated with the black community as mere trivial matters to his overall agenda. And Bernouts like to conveniently ignore Sanders's moments of racial insensitivity because marching with MLK apparently makes it all okay.

 

[DDS]

I got my vote by mail ballot today. If this had been, say, February, I probably would have bubbled in next to Bernie's name.

I did not do that because it is May and he has already lost.

 

[TheBat812]

That makes so little sense to me. If it's a foregone conclusion, then just don't vote? To me it still is important to vote in the direction you feel, to remind the DNC of what it's party actually believes rather than put votes towards somebody you don't believe in.

Also, I'm not at all personally offended by the term Bernouts, but I wonder what people think it accomplishes to demean people for their views with 'witty' antagonistic names? All it does is greaten the political divide and incite emotionally charged counter attacks. Same goes with Bernie supporters doing the same to others. It's childish and unproductive.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Because Bernie Bros. is a little too restrictive to just men when there are female Bernie supporters who are also just as extreme. It's also hard to take people seriously when they complain about a system that they have no idea what they're talking about. The same logic applies to the Tea Baggers on the right.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Also their behavior is just as bad as the Tea Baggers and they can't comprehend when Bernie loses.

Hell, I had an argument when someone tried to say that Bernie was the real winner in my home state of New York, even though Hillary had more than 60% of the vote. Apparently, elections aren't won by votes, they're won by how many square miles you win and that Downstate and NYC aren't a part of New York.

 

[DDS]

That makes so little sense to me. If it's a foregone conclusion, then just don't vote? To me it still is important to vote in the direction you feel, to remind the DNC of what it's party actually believes rather than put votes towards somebody you don't believe in.

It's wasn't pointless to vote because:
1. There were downticket races on the ballot I still wanted to participate in, including a school board election that features a candidate who is an old friend and whose campaign I am actually a paid employee for leading up to the primary. Are you suggesting I do those but not the one for president if they're all right there on the same piece of paper?
2. It is a forgone conclusion that Hillary will be the nominee, but it is not a foregone conclusion that uniting the party against Trump won't be messy. A swift victory for Hillary in California, where I am a registered voter, might do a lot to quiet the Bernouts who don't care about ****ing up the general and possibly giving this thing to Trump. All that REALLY matters, IMO, is that a Dem gets into the White House and gets to pick the SCOTUS nominees, and that they defeat the GOP candidate. The person who is the best candidate to defeat Trump is indeed Hillary, and the primary results are much more substantial evidence of this than general election matchup polls for Bernie conducted half a year away from the actual general election.
3. I should have said in my post that while Hillary clearly winning is the biggest factor in my voting for her, it isn't the ONLY factor. In February, Bernie was still a guy I could see myself voting for, but things that have happened in the primary since then have made me less confident in his ability to govern. He hasn't handled losing the primary well, he is fracturing the party some over ideological purity when there's way too much at stake, he has been hypocritical on things like his flip-flopping stance on superdelegates, and he's had some pretty big gaffes, such as basically all of his New York Daily News interview. All of this PLUS his huge lagging behind Hillary means I was running out of reasons to confidently vote for him.

IMO, it's basically never pointless to exercise your right to vote, even if an election does feel one-sided or like a forgone conclusion.

 

[Matt]

Samantha Bee Destroys Bernie Bros

 

[DDS]

Samantha Bee Destroys Bernie Bros

Oh man.

Her show kicks ass.

 

[Marvolo]

Bernie is requesting a recount in Kentucky.

Id love it if the recount resulted in Hillary getting more delegates.

 

[Victarion]

Bee's report on Bernie's performance is night and day from what I saw in the S4P subreddit.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Main point? A chunk of Bernie supporters are going to retaliate against Clinton by voting Trump.

You're absolutely insane if you think that. They may sit at home but would never support somebody like Trump. You make me laugh damn near every single time you post in the politics section.

 

[DDS]

A "chunk" of Bernie supporters won't go for Trump, but a small sliver that were never progressives to begin with might, and they probably won't make an impact.

I'd be more worried about Bernie or Busters writing in his name or going Green Party, just like with Nader and Gore in 2000. Jill Stein has already begun courting this crowd, and will continue to do so for the next six months.

 

[Victarion]

Does Gary Johnson's platform have anything to offer Bernie's supporters?

 

[Matt]

Does Gary Johnson's platform have anything to offer Bernie's supporters?

No. Gary Johnson is a libertarian. Bernie Sanders is a socialist. If libertarian philosophy is followed through perfectly then there would essentially be no government and the individual or private company would have full autonomy to behave as altruistically or greedily as they see fit. Society and the market would regulate all behavior, set all norms, and maintain quality of life. Meanwhile, in ideal socialism, the government (comprised of the people) would control all business and wealth and distribute it equally among all citizens. There would be no private sector. In very simple terms, libertarianism is all about the individual where as socialism is all about the collective. They are diametrically opposite ideologies.

That said, I do expect some Sanders supporters (a good portion even) to jump on the Johnson bandwagon. Why? Because this portion is the same portion that supported Ron Paul (a libertarian) in 2008 and 2012...because he was the trendy Twitter candidate. Despite his libertarian views, a portion of his supporters are those are the same people who supported Nader (socialist-lite) in 2004 and 2000. What I am getting at is there are those who support Bernie because he is the trendy, non-mainstream candidate. These same people will look for the next trendy, non-conformist candidate, no matter what their ideology may be.

 

[DDS]

Like Matt said, Johnson will pick up the Bernie supporters who are anti-establishment for the sake of being anti-establishment. Or they just want legal weed.

I have one good friend who happens to be a pretty big stoner and supports Bernie now, but will probably do exactly that with Johnson for the general instead of voting for Hillary. He supported Johnson in 2012.

 

[Marvolo]

Kentucky Declares Clinton Democratic Primary Winner After Recanvass

A recanvass of Kentucky’s Democratic presidential primary results found Hillary Clinton won the contest by 1,911 votes, Kentucky Secretary of State Alison Grimes said on Thursday.

Clinton’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Bernie Sanders, had requested a recount in the razor-close contest earlier this week. Grimes, in posts on Twitter, said the results of the recanvass would be certified by the state’s Board of Elections on May 31?

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57473789e4b055bb117187f0

 

[craigdbfan]

BREAKING:Donald Trump vs Bernie Sanders Debate: ALL NETWORKS VYING TO HOLD DEBATE!

"Both campaigns have contacted each other and are trying to reach a deal."


- Donald Trump and Weaver (Bernie Campaign manager)

 

[Schlosser85]

Why should Bernie get to debate Trump at this point?

The only person who should be debating the presumptive Republican nominee is the presumptive Democratic nominee.

 

[Kelly]

I wasn't sure if Bernie was in this for himself....this cements it for me. He wants his 15 minutes and Trump in all of his narcissistic weirdness might just give it to him. The networks aren't fighting over it for the political, intellectual value of it.....they want the ratings...$$$$$ Trump is turning this whole thing into another reality idiot show, and Sanders is falling right into the trap......as I said before, they are simply two sides of the same coin.

 

[Matt]

This is brilliant for Trump. Sanders, pure narcissism.

Trump gets the benefit of a practice debate. Further, and more importantly, he gets to be the rational one in this. He will undoubtedly debate Sanders from the middle, knowing that Sanders will cling to the left. Trump now gets to come off as the rational candidate running against a party of socialists. This will bolster his credentials in the middle, which are the voters who will decide this election.

And none of that speaks to the fact that Sanders is a terrible debater. His performance in these debates have been awful. He will come across as a screaming, spitting, senile old man. This debate allows Trump to, on national television, repaint his image as the rational business man standing between America and the party that is split between a crook and a commie.

 

[chaseter]

It is genius. I'm genuinely surprised at how effective the man can hold the spotlight and craft his campaign.

 

[Kelly]

This is brilliant for Trump. Sanders, pure narcissism.

Trump gets the benefit of a practice debate. Further, and more importantly, he gets to be the rational one in this. He will undoubtedly debate Sanders from the middle, knowing that Sanders will cling to the left. Trump now gets to come off as the rational candidate running against a party of socialists. This will bolster his credentials in the middle, which are the voters who will decide this election.

And none of that speaks to the fact that Sanders is a terrible debater. His performance in these debates have been awful. He will come across as a screaming, spitting, senile old man. This debate allows Trump to, on national television, repaint his image as the rational business man standing between America and the party that is split between a crook and a commie.

If this is what Trump will do, then you are correct it is brilliant and if he isn't planning on doing that, he needs to.

 

[Frodo]

If this is what Trump will do, then you are correct it is brilliant and if he isn't planning on doing that, he needs to.

Yeah. As a democrat, I think its foolish for Bernie to get into a debate with Trump. The cable press is gonna set the bar so low for Trump that he'll "win" by being able to go toe to toe with Bernie. He'll either use Bernie as a tool to attack Hillary or he'll hit Bernie with low blows and zingers and get under his skin real fast.

By the same token, Hillary could consider Bernie a sacrificial lamb to get slaughtered by Trump in a debate and to be discredited as a viable candidate to run against Trump in a general election.

If anything, I'm stunned so many liberals are rooting for this to happen.

 

[chaseter]

These are the same liberals rioting at Trump rallies. It's the lowest common denominator protesting against the other lowest common denominators.