"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, when the rules that have existed for decades don't work for your candidate, and when the majority dont support your candidate go vote for the person that thinks your preferred candidate is a "commie". Vote for the guy that has the polar opposite goals and agenda of your candidate. Cause that makes sense.

Look, if those people want to vote for Trump, because in their uninformed minds they think there is a evil grand conspiracy so be it. I can live with us losing because we wouldn't give into their senseless tantrums, stupidity, and spite.

Having said that, while a small portion will vote for Trump out of childish spite, I think most will vote for Hillary or Stein before they ever vote for Trump.

For people who are suppose to be fighting for what is right and fair, they sure do whine a lot about stuff they clearly have no knowledge of. They are so immature, it is painful.

 

[Victarion]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/bernie-sanders-campaign-last-days-224041

Apparently it started to go off-rails after Michigan; there seems to have been some division within Bernie's camp once he started steering the ship.

 

[SV Fan]

At this point if Bernie really wants to make a difference he should put all of his focus on Colorado

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...s-will-put-single-payer-health-care-to-a-vote

Coloradans Will Put Single-Payer Health Care To A Vote

The group ColoradoCareYES gathered enough signatures — more than 100,000 — to put a single-payer health system on the ballot next fall.

Under the plan, Coloradans would still pick their own providers of health care, but the new system would pick up all the bills. There would be no deductibles and fewer and smaller copays.

If getting single payer Healthcare is one of your big goals your best chance of doing it is find one state to be the first to prove it can work. If it does work, you will see other states adopt similar policies.

 

[Marvolo]

At this point if Bernie really wants to make a difference he should put all of his focus on Colorado

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...s-will-put-single-payer-health-care-to-a-vote



If getting single payer Healthcare is one of your big goals your best chance of doing it is find one state to be the first to prove it can work. If it does work, you will see other states adopt similar policies.

The problem is if Colorado mishandles it and it fails because of incompetence the GOP will use their failure as "evidence" that a single payer system is "teh satan".

Other countries have shown that single payer can work. We just need some time and trial and error to adapt it so it works in America, but any trial and error will be used as a weapon by the GOP.

 

[BatLobster]

You know the Bernie movement has completely jumped the shark when at the start of primary season it was all about the superdelegates unfairly "appointing" Clinton, and now literally the only straw left to grasp are those superdelegates, which he'd need to take the vast majority of despite Clinton winning the popular vote, and pledged delegate count fair and square. How would that be reflecting the will of the people?

What Bernie and his supporters seem to be unable to grasp is that by his very staying in the election, he is influencing those general election polls. If he had gotten out of the race a month or two ago like he should have and focused on uniting the party and allowed it to sink in nationally that Clinton IS the nominee, I have no doubt that her numbers would go up because the reality of the election being Clinton vs. Trump would have time to set in- and I'd like to believe that enough of Bernie's supporters aren't immature "Bernie or Bust" cry-babies.

Clinton is now being hailed as the fist female Presidential nominee. That cat is out of the bag, I don't think too many superdelegates are going to want to yank that huge moment of progress away even if they do see Sanders as the stronger candidate against Trump. It just seems like such a pointless charade to continue, unless Bernie is that drunk on his on Kool-Aid. The sooner the party can unite, the more comfortable the chances of victory are for Clinton.

 

[Slushy]

You know the Bernie movement has completely jumped the shark when at the start of primary season it was all about the superdelegates unfairly "appointing" Clinton

[YT]vgCK2GY9gE4[/YT]

At the Nevada convention, the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place.

Among other things:

The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.

The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.

The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.

The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.

- Bernie's "forgotten" to put on the DC ballot.

Hillary was going to beat Bernie regardless. I just would've preferred she did without using blatant electoral fraud, but hey, its Hillary.

 

[Handsome Rob]

The problem is if Colorado mishandles it and it fails because of incompetence the GOP will use their failure as "evidence" that a single payer system is "teh satan".

Other countries have shown that single payer can work. We just need some time and trial and error to adapt it so it works in America, but any trial and error will be used as a weapon by the GOP.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...health-plan/VTAEZFGpWvTen0QFahW0pO/story.html

Well, they can add it to Vermont's (solidly blue Vermont) failed attempt at single-payer. Long story short: It would cost too much. An 11.5% assessment on payroll (higher taxes on businesses) would be levied (on top of the 7.65% Social Security/Medicare taxes. Further, it would charge premiums that might be up to 9.5% of an individual's income depending on his or her income level (higher taxes on individuals). That's in addition to Vermont's state income tax rate of 3.55% to 8.95%, depending on income. Not only that, but according to the governor's financial report, it would nearly double Vermont's budget in the first year alone.

Even with those taxes, they predicted the program would run a deficit of $82 million by 2020 and $142 million by 2021. This would likely lead to eventual further tax increases.

That doesn't exactly sound like a workable plan. Maybe Colorado would be different. Maybe it would be successful . . . but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

 

[hippie_hunter]

At this point if Bernie really wants to make a difference he should put all of his focus on Colorado

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...s-will-put-single-payer-health-care-to-a-vote



If getting single payer Healthcare is one of your big goals your best chance of doing it is find one state to be the first to prove it can work. If it does work, you will see other states adopt similar policies.

Vermont already tried it, it failed miserably. States do not have enough money to run a single payer system. Only the Federal government has the finances to do so.

 

[chaseter]

Single payer is never successful in the long run. It runs the debt up for every country. You can't fully cover the healthcare of everyone. It's sad and unfortunate but true. The focus needs to be on cost. People here are trying to put the cart before the horse. That's why Obamacare is running deficits.

 

[Matt]

I love hearing Bernie Sanders say how he is going to fight for the superdelegates to overturn the results of the election.

How ****ing tone deaf is this guy? He claims to be leading a "populist revolution." Yet he wants a group of primarily old, white men to steal the nomination from the first female winner of the Democratic Primary, against the will of the people who voted for her.

 

[Schlosser85]

I love hearing Bernie Sanders say how he is going to fight for the superdelegates to overturn the results of the election.

How ****ing tone deaf is this guy? He claims to be leading a "populist revolution." Yet he wants a group of primarily old, white men to steal the nomination from the first female winner of the Democratic Primary, against the will of the people who voted for her.

Why would they do that?

 

[chaseter]

Super delegates aren't technically the will of the people. Neither are delegates (Gore v Bush).

 

[Matt]

Super delegates aren't technically the will of the people. Neither are delegates (Gore v Bush).

No, they aren't. But as their creator, Governor Jim Hunt explained, they should only be used when there is not a clear mandate from the people or when circumstances that could not be foreseen require them to intervene (the example he was speaking of was Lyndon Johnson's sudden decision to not seek reelection). It wasn't meant to be a system designed to overrule the people who gave a clear mandate (as has happened here) or serve as check on the will of the people (unlike the electoral college, which was designed for that precise purpose).

 

[Victarion]

Wouldn't last night's results reflect the will of the people?

 

[Schlosser85]

No, they aren't. But as their creator, Governor Jim Hunt explained, they should only be used when there is not a clear mandate from the people or when circumstances that could not be foreseen require them to intervene (the example he was speaking of was Lyndon Johnson's sudden decision to not seek reelection). It wasn't meant to be a system designed to overrule the people who gave a clear mandate (as has happened here) or serve as check on the will of the people (unlike the electoral college, which was designed for that precise purpose).

But....but....TEH ELECKTURAL FRAWD!!1111

 

[Matt]

Wouldn't last night's results reflect the will of the people?

The election as a whole reflects the will of the people. Clinton has won 2,184 pledged delegates, nearly 400 more than Sanders. She has won 33 of the primaries/caucuses, 10 more than Sanders. She has won 56 % of the popular vote, beating Sanders by almost 4 million votes.

The mandate is clear. Short of an indictment, there is no conceivable reason for the superdelegates to go against the will of the people.

 

[Schlosser85]

The election as a whole reflects the will of the people. Clinton has won 2,184 pledged delegates, nearly 400 more than Sanders. She has won 33 of the primaries/caucuses, 10 more than Sanders. She has won 56 % of the popular vote, beating Sanders by almost 4 million votes.

The mandate is clear. Short of an indictment, there is no conceivable reason for the superdelegates to go against the will of the people.

But....but....there is rampant, blatant electoral fraud, Matt! Even though there is no proven case of it.

And Hillary is gonna be indicted any day now! Even though she's been investigated pretty much for years at this point.

 

[Matt]

But....but....there is rampant, blatant electoral fraud, Matt! Even though there is no proven case of it.

And Hillary is gonna be indicted any day now! Even though she's been investigated pretty much for years at this point.

How silly of me to forget. Damn the Clintons. They are capable of rigging a national election (but can't keep a blow job hidden).

 

[Victarion]

What if I told you Trump was one of the Clintons' toadies?

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if the Dems voting process reflected the will of their voters in the same way the Republican one did ie the party more or less falling in line once they saw that Trump kept winning the popular vote.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Lily Adler]

Prepares for Bernie to announce he's running as an Independent and attempting to Ross Perot Hilary:

 

[TheBat812]

I love Bernie and I still think he would be the best candidate to push our country in the direction I'd like to see. Having said that, he really should concede at this point and work with Hillary to beat Trump. He can keep pushing forward his message in other ways, but I'm incredibly grateful that he was able to get Americans to rethink our priorities and broken systems. I truly hope he doesn't go independent, that would be a disaster if the goal truly is to beat Trump.

I still think it's funny that in the US, Bernie is far left and Hillary is to the left, when in Europe/most other first world countries, Bernie is center left and Hillary is center right. Hillary definitely doesn't appear to be the candidate who will push progressive ideas, but who knows, it's really hard to get a handle on what she actually believes since she's always switching it up to fit the popular idea of the day.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Single payer is never successful in the long run. It runs the debt up for every country. You can't fully cover the healthcare of everyone. It's sad and unfortunate but true. The focus needs to be on cost. People here are trying to put the cart before the horse. That's why Obamacare is running deficits.

Thank you! That's what people don't seem to understand, the healthcare cost in this country is out of control. It matters not how many folks are insured when procedures that cost 5 grand or less in tons of other countries routinely run over $50k here. You have hospitals giving folks $300 Advils and $75 bandaids. until somebody gets that nonsense under control everything else is pointless.

 

[Victarion]

What's the rationale behind these costs - production, R&D...?

 

[Matt]

Prepares for Bernie to announce he's running as an Independent and attempting to Ross Perot Hilary:

He can't. Basically every state has sore loser provisions that prevent a candidate from making an independent run after losing a primary. And although these provisions often do not apply to presidential races, the deadline to get on the ballot as an independent is past in most states.