FF 2 Rate and Review Thread

[MrSinisterX3]

Saw it today, loved it to bits, Galactus, while probably would have benefited from a physical form, was visually stunning, the Surfer was genuinely sympathetic and the Four, Doom and Alicia were developed superbly from the first film. Looking forward to part 3 (if it's happening).

Depending how well thisone does. I think its more than likely. Just wondering who could be the next villian.

 

[Incrediblejeff]

I just came back from seeing the movie,and it was awesome.I'll have a full review sometime tommorow

 

[Kevin Roegele]

There was an old S-M TV show, and the costume was comic-accurate, but it looked goofy as hell.

As it's supposed to. Spider-Man himself would describe his costume as goofy. Stan Lee would describe it as goofy. The citizens of New York in the comics abuse Spidey and call his costume corny and goofy.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Going into the theatre to see FF2: RISE OF THE SILVER SURFER, I had been thinking about the first movie for a bit. The original FANTASTIC FOUR had some definate strengths, but also considerable weaknesses that kept it being average fare, fun superhero popcorn fluff with some chuckles but not much else. Mike Chiklis & Chris Evans were picture perfect as Ben & Johnny, respectively, and literally carried the film. Jessica Alba was woefully miscast as Sue Storm; she's more of a hot body/stuntwoman than an actress, and when her sequences involve her being invisible or not beating down people with fists & feet, things suffer (yeah, like anyone who saw INTO THE BLUE did it for the plot). Ioan Gruffudd's Reed was sort of average; not bad, but the movie depicted him more as an awkward bumbler geek than a genius, and as Reed never had the everyman appeal of Peter Parker, who does that better (and has Tobey Maguire to do it better), that was a poor angle to take. Perhaps the biggest flaws of the FF of 2005 was their portrayal of Dr. Doom. Julian McMahon was actually fine at playing Victor before the accident, as an arrogant, vindictive genius. But it was everything AFTER that which failed. Firstly, giving Dr. Doom powers completely ruins most of his appeal as a character; it is akin to giving Batman superpowers to explain some of his nearly-inhuman feats. Quite why a film that expects the audience to buy cosmic rays making someone elastic or combustable wouldn't be able to buy a man building a suit of armor is unknown. To top it off, Doom's origin was like a cheesier version of Green Goblin's from SPIDER-MAN, right down to throwing a doctor through a table in a lab when they don't get the results they like. The costume was actually impressive, but McMahon's voice isn't. He always sounded puny and pedestrian when Dr. Doom should sound intimidating. He was the base for Darth Vader. Every cartoon under the god damned sun has employed some metallic sound effect for him, but some 100+ million blockbuster from Hollywood can't even get that right? The action was pedestrian and everything just seemed amusing, but not inspiring. A ** star out of ***** effort. Not to say "average" movies can't be fun, but rarely are worth a rewatch. Dr. Doom was pedestrian in voice, origin, and direction, Reed a joke, Alba miscast; Johnny & Thing were essentially the main pro's. Perhaps had FANTASTIC FOUR debuted as Marvel's first modern flick in 2000, some of these flaws might not have been so apparent (the original X-MEN is hardly perfect, but was good enough for the time, barely 3 years after BATMAN & ROBIN, and 2 after BLADE pulled off a success). But after X2 and SPIDER-MAN 2, it just wasn't enough to make it beyond average entertainment.

The Fantastic Four have always been a difficult property. They come from a brighter era and usually are media darlings. Their powers and family-feel have been ripped off so many times since 1961 that they now seem generic, much as Superman has become since 1938. And they have to walk that fine line between sci-fi cliches and cheese and geniune drama. That doesn't mean it is impossible; STAR WARS and STAR TREK, or the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, succeeded at this. But I had my doubts as to the improvement of a sequal. Alba will always be who she is, and that will be that. Dr. Doom's origin can't be undone, but at best he could have a better plot or voice. And Reed could be written better. I fully expected Johnny & Thing to carry the film again, and they do. Silver Surfer, however, looked incredible, a marvel (pun intended) of special effects, and it got everyone's attention.

The plot actually takes some elements from the comics, as the last did. Reed & Sue want to get married, after some awkward romance last movie, but can't because a media circus or some experiment/disaster interupts them. Thing is still all craggy, but he's dating Alicia Masters (Kerry Washington), who has more airtime but still doesn't do a whole lot besides remove the Thing's self-loathing. Johnny is still a showboating, commercializing, skirt-chasing jerk. However, when the Silver Surfer shows up and starts mucking with the weather and drilling massive holes into the earth's surface, he gets the attention of the U.S. military and the Four, who assemble to stop him. Turns out he's naturally "the janiter to the apocalypse" as The Tick was to Omnipotus, but before the Four can figure out whether the Surfer is friend or foe or how to save the planet from "Galactus", they have to contend with Dr. Doom, back from Latvernian storage and cured of his deformities, out to steal the Surfer's "Power Cosmic" for himself. Toss into the mix Johnny trying to act serious as well as get army Capt. Frankie Raye (Beau Garrett, but any lean female would have done) to not hate him, as well as being afflicted with som sort of "cosmic radiation flu" that causes Johnny to swap powers with any one of the Four he touches, which is used for both comedic and dramatic effect.

Much as the first, Johnny and Thing carry the film with their buddy chemistry, only Chris Evans' Torch gets a lot more airtime this time, as well as his moment to define himself as both a hero and a brother/brother-in-law/pal to the Four beyond his showboat exterior. Gruffudd's Reed is still not nearly as impressive a mind as in the comics, but he does come across as slightly more interesting this time. He's reserved and would rather work on his machines and theories than fool around with his hot lady, or have a bachelor party with the boys. He can cobble together any super-science gadget to advance the plot, just like he does in the comics. Sue, for her part, spends most of the movie until the end pining for a normal life, reminding me of the 60's fare when all she wanted to do in the comics was be a housewife. In some attempt to make Alba look more like Sue, or older, she has a bleachier wig and heavier makeup, which made her look almost ugly in promo posters. She looks better in the film itself but still seems covered in the stuff. Alba does geniunely try to get things right in her performance and succeeds at times, but there is one bit where she attempts to look smart by wearing glasses that symbolizes how miscast she is. Look, she is lovely to look at. But despite all of her whole-hearted efforts, she was miscast. Plain and simple. But despite that, she is nowhere near as disappointing as McMahon's Doom. The film tries to homage a classic scene in the comics when Doom has monks peel his armored mask over his ruined face, but he spends too long in some cloak left over from "The Emperor Palpetine" collection. A zap from the Surfer cures all his scars and thus his one major character draw, and Dr. Doom may homage a classic story by trying to steal Surfer's powers, but he still is nothing more than a generic villain.

40 years of depictions on the small and big screen, dozens of actors/writers/designers, and NO ONE has been able to get this villain right. The BEST depiction of Dr. Doom remains from the 1981 syndicated version of the SPIDER-MAN cartoon that blipped on TV screens a season before it got the attention of NBC and led to Amazing Friends. That version of Dr. Doom had a solid design, a noble yet intimidating voice with metallic enhancement, and a plotline that made full use of his status as dictator of Latvernia with Diplomatic Immunity. It was a product of the times and not perfect, but to this day is the best version of Dr. Doom I have ever seen outside the comic. Every over cartoon and movie pooched it, usually by making him either silly or generic.

Silver Surfer, on the other hand, was nearly perfect here. Voiced by Laurence Fishburne and acted by Doug Jones (Abe Sapien from both the HELLBOY feature film and DTV's, both of which are better than this FF2 film), the Silver Surfer is an awesome presence. It didn't help that half of his good scenes were shown in trailers, but that still didn't ruin the effect on the screen. He looked like a silver, organ-less man who didn't look silly or cheesy, but truly like something from another world. His board looked sleek and powerful without being too long or too much like a surfboard. Fishburne's vocals also were subtle yet powerful, a shame they couldn't have rented any one of the dozen capable voice actors I could think of to take over for McMahon once the armor is on. If the film did anyone right, they got Surfer right. A passive yet powerful being from another world, Norrin Radd agreed to serve as errand boy to a cosmic menace to save his own planet, and the one his loves on it. Sue was switched from Alicia as the person who gives Surfer some faith in humanity, most likely to give her more to do besides pine. The Surfer inevitably realizes he has a choice from the Four's heroism and confronts his master. Really nothing I could say to tarnish Surfer, and the film might be worth seeing just for him alone. Truly a masterpiece of acting & CGI. Just a shame that Surfer was alone in this.

Removing Dr. Doom's disfigurement just makes him a generic pretty-boy baddie, unlike about a billion I could think of, and removes some of his contempt for the world. It just seemed tacked on to provide a sequence where the army could trust him enough to work with him after Surfer is captured. Dr. Doom actually dons some cool looking armor and the board of the Surfer (which in this movie was his power-source), but oh lord, the coolness ends there. Sure, Cosmic Doom gets in some night explosions and a great finale fight with "Super Torch" (Johnny absorbs the powers of the Four, in a showing of what Super-Skrull could look like for a 3rd), but his vocals are wimpy and his lines are terrible! "Everyone want to go for a spin!" Dr. Doom quips while he does some silly whirlwind spin; for chrissakes, Royal Pain from SKY HIGH sounded better! Even the new anime cliche Dr. Doom from the new CN cartoon with man-fingernails comes off better than this iron joke. It utterly is a shame to see such a classic regal villain mishandled at literally every turn. People complained up and down about SPIDER-MAN 3, but at least he got Sandman & Harry right, and even Venom was more entertaining for his finale cameo. Heck, I almost would take "College Eddie Munster"/Blackheart from GHOST RIDER over this pathetic steel whipping boy that poses as Doom. Man, he wouldn't even make a good Doombot. All the cool costuming or effects in the world can't overcome stale lines & acting, and paper thin motives.

Speaking of lines, some of them were cringe-worthy. There were some good exchanges, some chuckles, and after angsty fare like PIRATES or S-M3, I did actually feel somewhat refreshed at seeing a lighter hero tale that was under 2 hours (hell, it was barely 90 minutes). The movie introduces the Four as beloved heroes and media darlings who tangle with crime and disasters, and I would have liked to see that displayed in a scene. It would have made them seem more accessable stopping a bank robbery or something vs. all of their action scenes being against Cosmic Doom or Silver Surfer.

But, Dr. Doom wasn't the only tarnished villain here. Nope, not even Galactus can avoid the Hollywood grinder. If you were expecting some design to rival the utterly DROP DEAD GORGEOUS depiction shown in cinematics for MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE, then you are sorely mistaken. No, here Galactus is a big space cloud. With tentacles. He basically is Hedorah the Smog Monster from GODZILLA VS. THE SMOG MONSTER, circa 1972. It was cheesy then with baggy suits and it's cheesy now with multi millions in CGI. There are hints of the classic stuff, or homages, like shadow images of Galactus' three pronged helmet in shadows or in his core, but these feel more like teases of should have been, like a big Nelson-esque "Ha HA!" And after all the end-of-the-world shipping, fearing, and whatnot, Galactus-Cloud goes down in like 3 minutes when Surfer, inspired by Alba's babage, sucks the gas into himself and floats into space. Really. That's it. It was so anti-climatic that Sandman literally floated next to Surfer and said, "Damn, that's anti-climatic!" If any blockbuster leaves you with a feeling of, "that's IT", then this is it. Some will try to claim this space cloud was some spaceship, but it's not, it's space dust. Some others will say that the concept of a big, purple armor man could never be taken seriously by the audience. To that I say, ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? After expecting the audience to buy the Four's powers, Johnny switching them, Doom's terrible performance, and silve men surfing through space, a LARGE COSMIC ALIEN MAN is somehow TOO MUCH TO SWALLOW!? That reminds me of some Marvel writers who feel the concept of a man gaining a half ton of muscle mass from nowhere from gamma radiation is acceptable, but him not killing people in a rampage isn't. You can either over-realistic comics to death and make everything low powered leather angst affairs, or go all out and produce stuff like 300 that doesn't even pretend to make comic action look real, but embraces the art of it. Movies like the FF ones make the common mistake of trying to be a mix of both, picking and choosing, but fail. Raimi gets it right, but Tim Story is no Raimi. This utterly pathetic depiction of what is supposed to be the biggest menace in the universe makes even Wuss Doom look incredible.

There are good things to be had. Evans' Torch really steals the show and proves himself a hero, and Chiklis' Thing is always reliable. Reed is slightly better here than the last film, and so is Alba (who has another joke scene that teases nudity). It gets the square elements of the franchise right, and the Surfer is just a spectacle to behold. But the clunky lines and underwhelming villains can't keep it above mediocrity. I'd give it ** 1/2 stars out of ****, if only because Reed & Sue had minor improvements from the first film, Evans stepped up, Surfer is great and some of the action sequences are cool to watch, at least once. But really nothing for the classic list, or a repeat viewing for me. Evans & Jones/Fishburne/CGI carried this one almost as much as Jim Carrey & Val Kilmer carried BATMAN FOREVER. I mean I didn't leave the theatre angry and it is a fun superhero romp for the masses, but it's the TGI FRIDAYS to the high class steak joint that is, say, SPIDER-MAN 2. It's a fun film, and lord knows every comic fan will see it, but it's not the best of the genre, or even the best the Four could be. They're a hard franchise to translate perfectly to another medium and that may never change.

Despite the flaws, SPIDER-MAN 3 was still the best blockbuster of the summer to me, and I really doubt Bay's TRANSFORMERS is going to top it.

Great review. One minor quibble; the best version of Dr Doom outisde the comic is actually the one in the video game Marvel Superheroes. He is absolutely perfect.

 

[the a1ant]

I watched the film once again, and it gets better upon the second viewing. I still give it a grade of C+, but it's definitely not a bad film like many professional critics have said. Maybe they just don't get what the FF are about. I still prefer FF1 over the sequel (I'd give FF1 a B-), only because the story flowed much better, and didn't seem rushed. A longer runtime could have helped.

I still feel that Doom didn't have much of a purpose in this film, besides having a cool action scene or two. I don't see how he's improved from the first film, besides having a different costume this time.

 

[Vartha]

Yeah the problem I've noticed with more Villans is movies do seemed rushed.
I had the same feeling with SM3. Tho I did notice one of the Released Doom pics weren't in the film. Like inside the enteryway of Dooms Castle.

 

[Carp Man]

Where to start. I'm going to rate this move fron 2 points of views. 1 from the fanboy point of view, 1 from the general movie public point of view.

1st from the fanboy point of view.

1. Full Doom ? What full Doom ? All I saw was Doom in a different armor, flying around on the Surfers surfboard, with his silly electrical power.
2. The dialog. much better than the 1st.t:
3. Galacuts ? His form was in the cloud.
4 The Thing ? 1 Thing strenght scene.
5. Brother sisterly love between Johnny and sue. t:
6. Disfunctial family ? t:
7 Johnny, Ben moments not as many as the 1st.
8 Torture of Surfer ? Felt like I was watching an episode of 24. Could have done without that.
9 Sets ? Way better than the 1st. t:
10. Story left in for flow ? t:
11. Pacing ? t:
12. Action scenes ? More.
13. What happened to Doom at the end ?
14 Running time : 87 minutes excluding trailers, and closing credits.

All in all a solid 8 out of 10. I left not felling as satisified as with the 1st film, but it was way, way better than the 1st. Not everything it could of or should of been, but a vast, vast improvement over the 1st.

Now from the general movie public point of view ? The kids loved it.

 

[deathshead2]

Hey you guys i've got a question. Is the watcher in the movie or not. I've read things that said he is, and then i've aslo read stuff saying he isn't. So what is it.Is he or isn't he.

 

[Malus]

Not everything an FF movie could be, but so improved from last time.
The low RT rating is a joke. Idiots like the guy at the NY Post that ridiculed the characters' names just mystify me.
What's clear to me is that a lot of these critics went in with preconceived notions of what a superhero film should be. And many of them just didn't get it.

Galactus is clearly NOT a cloud. Anyone still thinking that isn't paying attention.
(Even if he were this thing, it sure ain't no cloud.)
For the record, the Surfer refers to Galactus as "he" in two seperate scenes, including the climax:

Spoiler

"He is here."

"He."

Individual.

and male.

It's plenty clear to me that we simply did not see all there is to see about Galactus in this film.

And what do you know?
it worked.

My audience laughed heartily at the right places and seemed quite immersed and involved during the tense moments. They were into it.
And from all appearances, they left happy.

My kid left in a state of joy and has been humming Ottman's score ever since.
I left feeling mainly relieved, though.
Maybe when I see it the second time (tonight) I'll leave happy.

'Cause there's a lot to be happy about here.

Still room for considerable improvement, yes, but God how this towers over FF1.

I'll write a detailed review later, but for now - I'm still stunned at how bad this movie wasn't. t:

 

[Carp Man]

Hey you guys i've got a question. Is the watcher in the movie or not. I've read things that said he is, and then i've aslo read stuff saying he isn't. So what is it.Is he or isn't he.

No. No Watcher.

 

[gambitfire]

What's with this horrible notion that the movie is better for the kids?

Half of them probably couldn't even understand what's going on.

Yes i'm sure the movie really does insult ones intelligence.

Seeing how Sue feels about another ruined wedding and how difficult it may be to raise a family this way, Johnny feeling he can't do anything right, SS making a greater sacrifice for a better good. Those are real kid like elements...

Like someone said earlier kid movies in the past have proven to be for more than kids so how is this one more for the kiddies?

I don't see it.

That's just me however, It'd be nice if one of the ppl who makes this claim would actually back it up.

This wasn't directed at anyone specifically just venting is all.

 

[Bishop2]

I haven't seen anyone else comment on it, but I wanted to mention what a huge geek shout-out moment it was when...

Spoiler

Roberta the automated secretary

...showed up.

Spoiler

When I first saw her glitching in front of the General, I was like "holy crap, ROBERTA?!" and then Sue said the name, and I grinned like a damn fool.

 

[gambitfire]

^LOL yea i caught that before she said the name too!

 

[Carp Man]

No body said it was more for kids, but the PG rating, dowm from PG-13 for the 1st, tells you who they were trying to get into the theater. More kids, and teenagers were there at the 1st showing, then were there for the 1st showing of the 1st movie. I listen to comments after the movie, and the kids were asking to go again. The teens liked it. The parents liked it. Many positive comments.

 

[Carp Man]

^LOL yea i caught that before she said the name too!

Clue me in.

 

[Vartha]

Roberta was a Robot or Hologram ( depending on the year) Secretary at the FF offices.

 

[Bishop2]

Clue me in.

Basically she's a rarely-seen supporting character who writers tend to forget exists, then they'll remember her once every 8 or so years and suddenly give her a shout-out appearance. She's gone through a number of incarnations, from hologram to robot and such. One of Reed's creations, of course. Handles the front desk and the appointment book. Calls the team if someone undesirable, like some psycho-stalker or Namor or something, walks in the front door. She's the first contact with visitors because it would be too dangerous of a position for one of the human staff at FF Inc.

 

[Carp Man]

Roberta was a Robot or Hologram ( depending on the year) Secretary at the FF offices.

Got ya. That slipped by me too, but your right. Thanks.

 

[squeekness]

I will say that when the general first showed up I felt a momentary panic. I was afraid they had cast that guy as General Fury of SHIELD when I so want Samual Jackson for that postion should it ever come available.

 

[Spider-Bat]

Just got back from seeing it, much better, Doom was great, that is how he should have looked in the first place, people need to stop ebing afraid of costumes, once you get it right it looks and, works so much better!!!

I give it 3 stars. Seeing Johnny with the Super Skrull Powers was nice too.

Who was Frankie again, I forgot, was it the next herald, or the chick from the inhumans? She was suppose to be the next herald right? I remember the name from the animated series.

 

[Carp Man]

Wedding : $ 100,000 dollars
Suit for the Thing : $ 5,000 dollars
Stan not being able to attend the wedding : Priceless. t:

 

[Spider-Fan]

Just got back from seeing it, much better, Doom was great, that is how he should have looked in the first place, people need to stop ebing afraid of costumes, once you get it right it looks and, works so much better!!!

I give it 3 stars. Seeing Johnny with the Super Skrull Powers was nice too.

Who was Frankie again, I forgot, was it the next herald, or the chick from the inhumans? She was suppose to be the next herald right? I remember the name from the animated series.

Frankie Raye = Nova

 

[Carp Man]

Just got back from seeing it, much better, Doom was great, that is how he should have looked in the first place, people need to stop ebing afraid of costumes, once you get it right it looks and, works so much better!!!

I give it 3 stars. Seeing Johnny with the Super Skrull Powers was nice too.

Who was Frankie again, I forgot, was it the next herald, or the chick from the inhumans? She was suppose to be the next herald right? I remember the name from the animated series.

Frankie was the next herald of Galacuts. Otherwise known as Nova.

 

[The Guardian]

Wedding : $ 100,000 dollars
Suit for the Thing : $ 5,000 dollars
Stan not being able to attend the wedding : Priceless. t:

LOL, YES, YES IT IS!!!up:

 

[Spider-Bat]

Wedding : $ 100,000 dollars
Suit for the Thing : $ 5,000 dollars
Stan not being able to attend the wedding : Priceless. t:

Just like in the comic book, Stan and Jack tried to get in.