Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - Part 21

Marvolo · Feb 21, 2016

Bryan Cogman, Game of Thrones writer, defends Sansa scene in heartfelt new commentary heard on the upcoming blu-ray.

"Im going to hijack the commentary track for just a minute to talk about this subplot says writer-producer Bryan Cogman on the upcoming DVD release of Game of Thrones season 5.

And thus launches a detailed explaination of whats arguably the most controversial scene in the HBO fantasy hits history, where the innocent Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner) is raped on her wedding night by the sadisic Ramsay Bolton (Iwan Rheon) as her familys traitorous former ward Theon Greyjoy (Alfie Allen) is forced to watch. The scene resulted in outraged worldwide headlines and even a U.S. senator swearing off the show.

Cogman, who wrote the episode Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken, and showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss, have largely avoided discussing the scene save some brief comments Cogman made last year that were given a rather cynical spin by some critics online. For the DVD commentary, Cogman wanted to set the record straight.

I think its important to talk about because of the response this storyline got, Cogman says. Its sort of damned if you do, damned if you dont. If you dont talk about it, people think youre ashamed of it; if you do talk about it, everything you say is taken out of context. Basically, when we decided to combine Sansas storyline with another character in the books it was done with the idea that it would be hugely dramatically satisfying to have Sansa back in her occupied childhood home and navigate this Gothic horror story shes found herself in and, of course, to be reunited with Theon setting her on the path to reclaiming her family home and becoming a major player in the big overall story. That said, when we decided we were going to do that we were faced with the question: If shes marrying Ramsay, what would happen on her wedding night? And we made the decision to not shy away from what would realistically would happen on that wedding night with these two characters, and the reality of the situation, and the reality of this particular world.

A reaction among some fans was that Sansa should have tried to kill Ramsay in the scene. Yes, it would have been hugely satisfying [for Sansa] to have a shiv up her sleeve and gut Ramsay, but thats not Sansa, Cogman says. We cant all be Arya (Maisie Williams) and, in fact, most people arent Arya. Most people in that situation, they have to play a longer game. She goes [into the marriage] without the right information about Ramsay, she gets the sense that hes dangerous, and when he turns out to be even worse than she thought, shes not broken by the attack, she immediately sets to getting the hell out of there and planning her next move.

Williams is on the commentary track too, and is quite supportive. Good for you, she says. Its important to have your say openly and honestly, and not just through headlines and Twitter and things like that there is so much more to the whole sequence than people are allowing. Turner is absent from the episodes commentary, and Williams says she had a schedule conflict to work on her upcoming film, X-Men Apocalypse.

At one point, Cogman seemed to get a bit choked up. It was a very difficult scene for me to write, he says. Ive known Sophie since she was a kid I think it was the attack on our motives behind it that upset me. Because I love these characters. Ive spent the better part of the last decade with these characters, and I love these actors Im getting emotional talking about it I love Sophie, I love Alfie, I love [Maisie] and its very personal to me and its not an easy thing to put a character that I love through a scene like this.

Cogman also addressed the final shot of the sequence, where director Jeremy Podeswa (who was nominated for an Emmy for this episode) cut to Theons anguished face while Sansa was attacked. Another argument and I get why this criticism was leveled at us is idea that we took Sansas story away from her and made it all about Theon [by cutting to his face at the end], he says. I personally dont believe thats the case Certainly Theons redemption journey is an element of the subplot. But if you really watch this scene its played from Sansas viewpoint, for the most part. The main reason we cut away at the end, frankly, is that this was Sophies first scene of this nature, and we didnt want to show the attack. And so we cut to Theon to hear the attack. I understand why many people reacted to that, [thinking] we were making this scene about Theon and not Sansa. Im sorry it was viewed that way. All I can say is its certainly not my intention when I wrote it or when we were producing it We could have stayed on her face of the entirety of the attack, that would have been a perfectly valid choice. To me it was about being respectful to Sophie.

Summing up, Cogman emphasized that the scene is most accurately judged as part of Sansas entire storyline and teased that she will play a major role in the upcoming sixth season. Its an upsetting scene, its a horrifying scene, its meant to be [But] the accusation that our motives were [that we] just threw in a rape for shock value, I personally dont think the scene as shot, or as written, or as acted by our wonderful actors, supports that argument. Nor do I think the aftermath of the scene supports that argument. Not only in these episodes, but also in future episodes. This story is not over. This is a long ongoing story. Sansa has a journey ahead of her, and what happens to her in that room is a huge part of that journey, and one that weve thought through.

After recording the DVDs commentary, Williams told us that Cogman was genuinely upset during the session. He was really sad, he was heartbroken, she said. He loves these characters and all the actors on the show.

While the Sansa scene was deeply divisive, Thrones ratings continued to climb after the episode (hitting a record 8.1 million viewers in same-day viewership for the finale), and the season won the Emmy for best drama series. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken was nominated for direction, cinematography and production design.

Cogman and Williams actually have much more to say about the sequence in the full commentary. The DVD and Blu-ray is released March 15.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/19/game-thrones-season-5-dvd-sansa
Click to expand...

Glad he adressed it on the commentary and is sticking by his decisions as a writer.

Reek · Feb 22, 2016

If anything they should have shown more.

Victarion · Feb 22, 2016

Dormer also stated quite plainly that Thrones isn't quite the kind of escapism you usually associate with fantasy - it tackles issues like war, privilege and power without sheltering you from the violence associated.

Reek · Feb 23, 2016

If anything, the Dany 'rape' was 10000000% worse. I was literally disturbed watching that... With Sansa I just simply expected it.

Roose Bolton · Feb 23, 2016

If she was going to be married to Ramsay, this is realistically what would of happened and the idea that she could kill or otherwise incapacitate Ramsay or find some way to starve off the marital rape is idiotic and not in keeping with the character or the source material.

Having said that, Sansa never should have been in this situation at all. We could go back to the larger argument that she should never have left the Vale in the first place and that they should have remained more faithful to the books. Or, alternatively, if they wanted her to be in Winterfell and experience seeing the horror that her childhood home has become and build on her relationship with Theon then they could have given her a Lady Dustin type role where under the guise of Alayne Stone she bore witness to everything the Boltons were doing. They could have still gotten the same point of her being the one to redeem Theon by utilising those scenes from the novel where Lady Dustin asks him frequent and penetrating questions about the Starks and his betrayal. They could even have used the frequent question of whether or not Theon would betray her identity to Ramsay to build tension throughout the season. The whole storyline could have been done so much better.

Victarion · Feb 23, 2016

One of the season four trailers was cut to make it seem like Jaime was tasking Brienne with finding Arya so that they could give her to Lord Bolton. I did miss Lord Manderly, Abel and his washerwomen, and Jeyne. I found it chilling that LF would effectively engage in child trafficking. On the whole, the book Winterfell plot was a fine way of showing that the night is dark and full of terrors.

Reek · Feb 23, 2016

Roose Bolton said: ↑

If she was going to be married to Ramsay, this is realistically what would of happened and the idea that she could kill or otherwise incapacitate Ramsay or find some way to starve off the marital rape is idiotic and not in keeping with the character or the source material.

Having said that, Sansa never should have been in this situation at all. We could go back to the larger argument that she should never have left the Vale in the first place and that they should have remained more faithful to the books. Or, alternatively, if they wanted her to be in Winterfell and experience seeing the horror that her childhood home has become and build on her relationship with Theon then they could have given her a Lady Dustin type role where under the guise of Alayne Stone she bore witness to everything the Boltons were doing. They could have still gotten the same point of her being the one to redeem Theon by utilising those scenes from the novel where Lady Dustin asks him frequent and penetrating questions about the Starks and his betrayal. They could even have used the frequent question of whether or not Theon would betray her identity to Ramsay to build tension throughout the season. The whole storyline could have been done so much better.
Click to expand...

No! Please! Not Theon! My name is Reek! It rhymes with weak.

Roose Bolton · Feb 23, 2016

Reek · Feb 23, 2016

don't glare at me you limp penis debutante.

a shame Bran didn't speak to Theon at the tree after the black wedding.

Roose Bolton · Feb 23, 2016

Reek said: ↑

don't glare at me you limp penis debutante.
Click to expand...

Reek, I swear you would be of more use to me if I skinned you and turned your skin into a lampshade or fashioned you into a piece of high-end luggage. Add you to my collection.

Reek · Feb 23, 2016

Roose Bolton said: ↑

Reek, I swear you would be of more use to me if I skinned you and turned your skin into a lampshade or fashioned you into a piece of high-end luggage. Add you to my collection.
Click to expand...

Edit: Cory.....

Roose Bolton · Feb 23, 2016

You consumed that fetus a long time ago.

Reek · Feb 23, 2016

Buffalo Bill is not amused at these antics.

The gloves are off now.

Victarion · Feb 23, 2016

I have a warmer end in mind for the turncloak, Lord Bolton. And for the bastard.

TheVileOne · Feb 24, 2016

At the end of the day it's fiction and these are fictional characters.

People just can't accept when bad things happen to their beloved fictional characters.

Playing The Witcher 3, it's never outright stated, but when Geralt's lover Yennefer was held captive by The Wild Hunt, there is the impression that maybe they could've raped her. Look I have no idea. Maybe they just held her prisoner and were mean. But I dunno, some of the artwork in the second game suggest that maybe Eredin tried to bed her to hurt Geralt. And look I love Yennefer and don't want her to get raped, but Yennefer is still one of the strongest and most skilled characters in the world of the Witcher and the games. It's a very amoral world where a lot of bad things happen to generally good people.

Roose Bolton · Feb 24, 2016

Victarion said: ↑

One of the season four trailers was cut to make it seem like Jaime was tasking Brienne with finding Arya so that they could give her to Lord Bolton. I did miss Lord Manderly, Abel and his washerwomen, and Jeyne. I found it chilling that LF would effectively engage in child trafficking. On the whole, the book Winterfell plot was a fine way of showing that the night is dark and full of terrors.
Click to expand...

The plotline in the North during ADWD is probably my favorite in the entire series, and then when I see what we got in season 5...there's just no comparison. It's frustrating to think that we probably could have gotten something closer to the novels if they had seriously cut back on the Dorne nonsense. I can't for the life of me understand why they changed their minds on having Jaime play the Balon Swann role in that shorter and less cringeworthy pretext. Both are changes, but at least the latter is doesn't waste time and keeps the players in character.

Victarion · Feb 24, 2016

The circumstances were sketchy; sending Jaime as part of a two-man team would look bad if they were caught. Pursing that plot in a logical manner would've seen Cersei giving Jaime Ser Gregor's skull and delivering it. Bam. Gets you into Doran's palace without risking war.

Drizzle · Feb 25, 2016

Here are a bunch of promotional posters for the new season. There's so many to post here, so I'll just post the link.

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/02/24/brand-new-game-of-thrones-season-6-posters-arriving-now/

What's interesting is they've included dead characters such as Robert Baratheon and Oberyn Martell. I like 'em.

Reek · Feb 25, 2016

excuse me while i throw up.

Drizzle · Feb 25, 2016

Says the guy with the Goomba in name only avatar.

Reek · Feb 25, 2016

huh

Drz · Feb 25, 2016

So will Loras Tyrell die this season?

Victarion · Feb 25, 2016

The Three-eyed raven/swords remains a high point as far as promotional pieces are concerned.

dude stannis · Feb 26, 2016

Drz said: ↑

So will Loras Tyrell die this season?
Click to expand...

Maybe, but Arthur Dayne's actor shot a full season of Black Sails before doing Season 6.

rashad · Mar 2, 2016

Game of Thrones lockdown: HBO won't send press any Season 6 episodes
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/02/game-thrones-season-6-review-screeners

TV Series

Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - Part 21

Marvolo Avenger

Reek _____

Victarion Iron Captain

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Victarion Iron Captain

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Reek _____

Victarion Iron Captain

TheVileOne Eternal

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Victarion Iron Captain

Drizzle Avenger

Reek _____

Drizzle Avenger

Reek _____

Drz Real Hero

Victarion Iron Captain

dude stannis Avenger

rashad Hype Board Junkie

Share This Page

Resources

Useful Searches

Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - Part 21

Marvolo Avenger

Reek _____

Victarion Iron Captain

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Victarion Iron Captain

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Reek _____

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Reek _____

Victarion Iron Captain

TheVileOne Eternal

Roose Bolton Son of Katas

Victarion Iron Captain

Drizzle Avenger

Reek _____

Drizzle Avenger

Reek _____

Drz Real Hero

Victarion Iron Captain

dude stannis Avenger

rashad Hype Board Junkie

Share This Page