Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - - - Part 24

[Marvolo]

Spoiler

Keep in mind that these are probably akin to prophecies - and like Tyrion says, they're like to blow you as they are bite your cock off.

Early on in her chapters, Dany has a dream where she's riding Drogon over the Trident, burning the "Usurper's dogs," except in this dream they're armored in ice.

Later Jon has a dream where he's leading Wildlings against the Night's Watch, wielding a red sword and armored in "black ice." Someone in the dream makes a reference to Jon as a usurper...Jon is technically a Targaryen bastard, and the first Dance was between Targaryens...

So I think it is very possible. The exact conditions setting this up, I couldn't give you any theories. There are a load of wildcards here though - the effects of the fallout in King's Landing on the south's economy, Euron ravaging the South while Aegon launches his conquest, plus whatever diseases the Dothraki may bring with them from Essos.

I bet that "black ice" he is wearing is Euron's Valyrian armor.

I know Westeros is beat up and Dany has dragons. But if the show is true, her army is built up of a bunch of warriors who should be crap against a legit army, especially one in armor. Imagine them in the cold.

Well her army can dress warmer so that may not be a factor and its still warm down South and Varys is already working on those alliances.

As for how they would fair against a legit army, the sheer size of Dany's cavalry should give her army an edge. Does any army or alliance in Westeros have a mounted force so large? And they are much more ferocious in combat so they should have the advantage in size and momentum on the battlefield.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I bet that "black ice" he is wearing is Euron's Valyrian armor.

Euron's armour is black with red glyphs though, it wouldn't necessarily look like ice.

 

[Marvolo]

Euron's armour is black with red glyphs though, it wouldn't necessarily look like ice.

A dream isnt going to be very clear. The only thing that looks close to black ice is dragon glass, but I doubt there is armor in westeros or Essos made out of dragon glass. Euron's valyrian armor or some other valyrian armor is the only thing that fits the bill.

 

[Roose Bolton]

A dream isnt going to be very clear. The only thing that looks close to black ice is dragon glass, but I doubt there is armor in westeros or Essos made out of dragon glass. Euron's valyrian armor or some other valyrian armor is the only thing that fits the bill.

Well there are the Children of the Forest who use Dragon Glass regularly. It could be that they've fashioned a suit of it for Jon.

I actually don't see Euron and Jon really crossing paths, let alone Jon defeating him before Dany gets involved. The foreshadowing seems to indicate he's the thing Dany has to dread.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well her army can dress warmer so that may not be a factor and its still warm down South and Varys is already working on those alliances.

As for how they would fair against a legit army, the sheer size of Dany's cavalry should give her army an edge. Does any army or alliance in Westeros have a mounted force so large? And they are much more ferocious in combat so they should have the advantage in size and momentum on the battlefield.

How many horses can they really get across the ocean safely? Also dressing warmer doesn't suddenly make people to the cold when they have spent their entire lives in the head. How effect would her calvary be in the North, in winter, while attacking Wintefell.

 

[Marvolo]

Well there are the Children of the Forest who use Dragon Glass regularly. It could be that they've fashioned a suit of it for Jon.

I actually don't see Euron and Jon really crossing paths, let alone Jon defeating him before Dany gets involved. The foreshadowing seems to indicate he's the thing Dany has to dread.

I considered The Children, but they dont seem like the armor wearing type, are likely all dead, and Jon isnt likely to go beyond the Wall again.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I considered The Children, but they dont seem like the armor wearing type, are likely all dead, and Jon isnt likely to go beyond the Wall again.

in the show, yeah, but I assumed you were talking about the books. We don't really know much of anything about Leaf and co from the novels, other than she was born in the age of the dragon. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she would utilise dragon glass, or that she would survive further along where he show counterpart died.

 

[Marvolo]

How many horses can they really get across the ocean safely? Also dressing warmer doesn't suddenly make people to the cold when they have spent their entire lives in the head. How effect would her calvary be in the North, in winter, while attacking Wintefell.

The spanish brought horses to america. There were no horses in america prior to europeans coming here so it can be done. Im not sure how many they brought but I assume if Dany has 1,000 ships and packs as many horses as possible into them she should be able to bring a sizeable number of horses to westeros. Just depends how many ships she has, and she can get horses in westeros to make up for any she cant bring with her.

As for Winterfell, hopefully she won't need to besiege winterfell. But if she does, thats where her alliances come in. The Houses she aligns with would have the army and capabilities to besiege Winterfell. Or she could just land her three dragons at Winterfell and force a surrender.

As for the snow, it should be somewhat manageable if her dragons move ahead of the army routinely clearing routes.

 

[Charlatan]

I know Westeros is beat up and Dany has dragons. But if the show is true, her army is built up of a bunch of warriors who should be crap against a legit army, especially one in armor. Imagine them in the cold.

She has cavalry with the Dothraki. The Unsullied are an armored infantry, the second sons are armored cavalry. And they have air support. add to that any help Varys might get from Dorne. the Boltons,Umbers,Karstarks are all decimated. Not many remain of Baratheon's forces.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I was thinking about it and basically all the major houses are probably back in their last line lineage. Stark's/Targaryen's/Lannister's/Tyrel'sl will most likely not be bearing any children anytime soon to take up their names.

 

[Reek]

i dont know how it is going to work with the REAL winter (which we obviously aren't seeing in the show) and the Walkers, Dothraki etc etc...

but imagining Dany, Jon, Tyrion... 3 dragons... a dothraki horde... the north... etc all go against the army of the dead ...

*****.

 

[flickchick85]

Soundtrack's available on iTunes now, FYI.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I don't know if they're going to bother with it in the show, but in the books heavy rain and the like really hinders a dragon's ability to breathe fire. I have to wonder how it would work in snowfall .

 

[Reek]

fried icecream

 

[Reek]

 

[Reek]

....

 

[Ezio Auditore]

I have a goofy theory about ep 10 regarding the Tower of Joy and Jon's name that since its been shown that Bran can somewhat communicate with the people in his visions (like when he calls for his father and Ned turns around), that Bran will realize who the baby is, and maybe say the name "Jon" out loud which will influence Ned's decision. It's kinda silly but who knows?

 

[Reek]

I said that a few weeks back.. Sounds entirely plausible... him saying 'Jon' in surprise and ned hearing it.

Works for me. but sadly I don't think we'll get that.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I always assumed Ned named him Jon after Jon Arryn, who was basically Ned's mentor.

 

[Reek]

If he had any sense about him, he would have named him Ulrich.

 

[DKDetective]

Spoiler

Keep in mind that these are probably akin to prophecies - and like Tyrion says, they're like to blow you as they are bite your cock off.

Early on in her chapters, Dany has a dream where she's riding Drogon over the Trident, burning the "Usurper's dogs," except in this dream they're armored in ice.

Later Jon has a dream where he's leading Wildlings against the Night's Watch, wielding a red sword and armored in "black ice." Someone in the dream makes a reference to Jon as a usurper...Jon is technically a Targaryen bastard, and the first Dance was between Targaryens...

So I think it is very possible. The exact conditions setting this up, I couldn't give you any theories. There are a load of wildcards here though - the effects of the fallout in King's Landing on the south's economy, Euron ravaging the South while Aegon launches his conquest, plus whatever diseases the Dothraki may bring with them from Essos.

Who says Jon is

Spoiler

a bastard? The Targaryen practice of polygamy is well established in the books. Also, super honourable Ned thinks highly of Rhaegar in AGOT. Do you really think he would hold that view if Rhaegar ran off with his sister and used her as a concubine? I believe there are a ton of hints that they were married.

For instance, in AWOIAF, it is stated tha Rhaegar and Lyanna met again after the Tourney, 10 leagues from Harrenhal. (ie. the Isle of Faces, the one place in the South where there are Weirwoods and one can get married under the Old Gods) There is also an interesting reference to a travelling Septon being around there at the same time.

If Lyanna was a Queen, it also explains adds more depth to why Ned broke with tradition and gave Lyanna a statue in the crypts, which are ordinarily reserved for the Kings of Winter and Lords of Winterfell.

It also explains why when Ned challenges the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy why they hadn't left to Dragonstone to protect Viserys, their response is "We made a vow." GRRM has made clear in the books that the son of first son takes precedence over his uncle, the second son, in the line of succession. As such, Jon was the heir, not Viserys, which explains why the remaining Kingsguard stayed with him and Lyanna.

I really don't think Jon is a bastard. I'd bet real money he is the trueborn son of Rhaegar and rightful king, even over Danerys.

 

[Victarion]

Rightful bloodlines go against the idea that one's bloodline is truly relevant.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Rightful bloodlines go against the idea that one's bloodline is truly relevant.

It's certainly relevant when it comes to Brynden Rivers.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The spanish brought horses to america. There were no horses in america prior to europeans coming here so it can be done. Im not sure how many they brought but I assume if Dany has 1,000 ships and packs as many horses as possible into them she should be able to bring a sizeable number of horses to westeros. Just depends how many ships she has, and she can get horses in westeros to make up for any she cant bring with her.

As for Winterfell, hopefully she won't need to besiege winterfell. But if she does, thats where her alliances come in. The Houses she aligns with would have the army and capabilities to besiege Winterfell. Or she could just land her three dragons at Winterfell and force a surrender.

As for the snow, it should be somewhat manageable if her dragons move ahead of the army routinely clearing routes.

This sounds way too much like well of course we can take Russia. Except of course it never happens. The North is its own thing, where the only people who can hold the North, are from the North, especially in winter.

Who from the South can march against the North in the winter, even with dragons? While the dragons are magical, they aren't invulnerable. They can be killed. If Jon is the leader in the North, he is more versed in war then Dany. If they have the support of the Vale's army, they have plenty of cavalry. If Bran is there, he can even theoretically take control of the dragons.

 

[Infinity9999x]

This sounds way too much like well of course we can take Russia. Except of course it never happens. The North is its own thing, where the only people who can hold the North, are from the North, especially in winter.

Who from the South can march against the North in the winter, even with dragons? While the dragons are magical, they aren't invulnerable. They can be killed. If Jon is the leader in the North, he is more versed in war then Dany. If they have the support of the Vale's army, they have plenty of cavalry. If Bran is there, he can even theoretically take control of the dragons.

The original Targs forced Winterfell to surrender to them, so it obviously has been done before. I don't know how easy it was, but they did it.