Comics Get ready people, JMS and Joe Q are planning ANOTHER Spider-Man event

[stillanerd]

Like I said before, while Gwen is a fav, I agree with you. If they can't handle one relationship, they won't be able to handle another.

Maybe they'll have Peter break-up with MJ, get together with Gwen, and when things go stale, they'll have him break-up with Gwen and return to his REAL FIRST LOVE, Betty. Then he'll break up with Betty after a few years and return to his soulmate, MJ. Then he'll break up with MJ and return to the woman that holds his heart, Gwen, etc. etc.. It'll be a fun little rotation.

Yes, and in the meanwhile they'll get Kevin Smith to write another mini three years in the making which will get Spidey and Black Cat back together doing the nasty. And after that, they'll start having Peter court Liz Osborn and play the whole "dating the single mom" angle. Maybe they'll drag out Amy Powell and Debra Whitman again. Then they'll have him be in a polyamorous relationship with both Gwen and her clone. After that, Jill Stacy. Then the daughter of the Burglar. While there at it, why not have Peter wear leisure suits and open necked shirts with large collars, start wearing gold chains, and grow a fro like Greg Brady as well as a mustache--then he'll truly be the young, hip swinger Joe Q wants him to be.

 

[Captivated]

Yes, folks, you read that heading right. In the latest issue of Wizard Magazine: JMS and Joe Quesada address Spider-Man's busy summer story, what they feel is off-kilter with Spidey right now and how they plan to team up in 2007 to "tear your heart out."

According to one guy over at CBR message boards who has already read the article, JMS will be doing the writing chores and Joe Q will be the artist for this mini. Apparently, they've sort of confessed that "The Other:Evolve or Die" and the "Iron Spidey" costume aren't working out as well as they had hoped they would (surprise, surprise) and so THIS TIME, they're going to address what they see as Spider-Man's problems and "fix them" with this mini. Oh, and once again, Joe Q makes Spidey's marriage to Mary Jane the scapegoat.

Quote:
Wizard: What's the biggest problem with Spider-Man right now?

JOE: I've said it before: that darn marriage to Mary Jane. It has been one of the biggest problems in writing Spider-Man stories for new and younger readers. Let me put it clearly - Spider-Man is one of the greatest if not the greatest teen superhero ever created. He's supposed to be a young, viable, single character. And over the course of 40-some-odd years, as writers grew older and got married and stuff, they took Peter Parker along for the ride, forgetting about the fact that there were 9-year-olds who wanted to get into Peter Parker in the same way that they all did, which was a young guy. Peter grew old and married a supermodel. Peter became Billy Joel.

IS HE INSANE??!!! I thought he was just out of touch and had made some stupid decisions... but now I see I was wrong... he is completely out of his freakin mind!!!

And who are these 9 year-olds? Are THEY the people JMS/JQ were trying to appeal to with the Sins Past story arc? There is no way these stories have been appropriate for "kids" that age, and it has NOTHING to do with "the marriage."

What is with the comment about him being a great "teen" super-hero? Yeah, he was... those foundational stories are still there to be enjoyed by all ages. I know, I've been a fan for two years now, and I love all of them! New stories of Spidey as a teen hero are being told in USM, and I like those too. (But wait... I'm not a teen-ager... how is that possible... I thought I'm not supposed to relate to people older/younger than myself...??? )

The fact is, 616 Spider-Man is NOT a teen-ager anymore! He hasn't been a teen-ager in the comics (USM aside) in more than 30 years! How can you have him "regress" realistically at this point? A kid out of high school, or even in college, at loose ends... trying to "find" himself... uncommitted... is understandable. Someone who has been through that, in their late 20's... acting immature... how is THAT appealing to most readers. No. Just no. Good grief, that is one of the reasons Bendis writing a 616 Spidey in the New Avengers has been irritating.

And where do they get the convoluted idea that 1) kids can't relate to heroes older than themselves and 2) the BULK of their comic readership is or ever would be that young in the first place.

The fact is, Peter is a responsible guy... and anyone with half an ounce of discernment, who reads any of his history, can see that Peter has always wanted (since high school) to fall in love and get married. It was logical for the character to eventually go in that direction. Now he loves and is devoted to his wife, which is one of the more positive role model aspects of the character. It sets him apart and makes him more relatable than most other comic book characters, because MOST people do aspire to fall in love and get married. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT EVEN KIDS CAN RELATE TOO. Heck... it surprises me how early "relationship drama" happens with kids these days. Most KIDS I know have crushes on someone... there are "who likes who" dramas going on, even in elementary school.

The problem is NOT that Peter is married... and it's not that he has grown into a young adult. It's the writers who seem to be out of touch with the character, NOT the fans. It's the writers who also seem to be clueless about what the fans want. You know... the FANS... the people who weekly make an INVESTMENT of time, money and emotion in the character.

I can't believe he actually compared PETER to an old Billy Joel... The stupidity leaves me speechless... I really hope there is more to this interview, and the direction, than what we see here... cause this is un-freakin-believable.

 

[Gregatron]

Quesada is right in that the marriage is the root of many of Spider-Man's problems.

But he's wrong in making Mary Jane the one-and-only scapegoat for ALL of Spider-Man's problems.

The marriage can't be undone without someone getting unhappy. If Mary Jane is killed, then Peter becomes a widower and we may very well have another "Gwen Stacy Syndrome" (in which Mary Jane and her death are brought up every ten seconds).

If Peter and Mary Jane get divorced, then that will drag the book into the wrong tone. Also, divorce, while common in today's world, is still seen as wrong by many, and Spider-Man will be branded as a divorcee for the rest of his days (however few they may be).

The only solution that is marginally acceptable is some sort of time-warp that will restore the mythos and cast away the unsavory elements that have latched onto Spider-Man in recent years.

 

[stillanerd]

Quesada is right in that the marriage is the root of many of Spider-Man's problems.

But he's wrong in making Mary Jane the one-and-only scapegoat for ALL of Spider-Man's problems.

The marriage can't be undone without someone getting unhappy. If Mary Jane is killed, then Peter becomes a widower and we may very well have another "Gwen Stacy Syndrome" (in which Mary Jane and her death are brought up every ten seconds).

If Peter and Mary Jane get divorced, then that will drag the book into the wrong tone. Also, divorce, while common in today's world, is still seen as wrong by many, and Spider-Man will be branded as a divorcee for the rest of his days (however few they may be).

The only solution that is marginally acceptable is some sort of time-warp that will restore the mythos and cast away the unsavory elements that have latched onto Spider-Man in recent years.

You know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that last "solution" is what the mini involves given JMS obession with cosmic happenings shrouded in mysticism. Heck, I'd lay money on the idea that if does pull a "retcon punch" on Spider-Man, you can bet the whole new age, mystical spider-totem crap will be involved. And just think of the havoc that makes on continuity.

 

[stillanerd]

IS HE INSANE??!!! I thought he was just out of touch and had made some stupid decisions... but now I see I was wrong... he is completely out of his freakin mind!!!

And who are these 9 year-olds? Are THEY the people JMS/JQ were trying to appeal to with the Sins Past story arc? There is no way these stories have been appropriate for "kids" that age, and it has NOTHING to do with "the marriage."

What is with the comment about him being a great "teen" super-hero? Yeah, he was... those foundational stories are still there to be enjoyed by all ages. I know, I've been a fan for two years now, and I love all of them! New stories of Spidey as a teen hero are being told in USM, and I like those too. (But wait... I'm not a teen-ager... how is that possible... I thought I'm not supposed to relate to people older/younger than myself...??? )

The fact is, 616 Spider-Man is NOT a teen-ager anymore! He hasn't been a teen-ager in the comics (USM aside) in more than 30 years! How can you have him "regress" realistically at this point? A kid out of high school, or even in college, at loose ends... trying to "find" himself... uncommitted... is understandable. Someone who has been through that, in their late 20's... acting immature... how is THAT appealing to most readers. No. Just no. Good grief, that is one of the reasons Bendis writing a 616 Spidey in the New Avengers has been irritating.

And where do they get the convoluted idea that 1) kids can't relate to heroes older than themselves and 2) the BULK of their comic readership is or ever would be that young in the first place.

The fact is, Peter is a responsible guy... and anyone with half an ounce of discernment, who reads any of his history, can see that Peter has always wanted (since high school) to fall in love and get married. It was logical for the character to eventually go in that direction. Now he loves and is devoted to his wife, which is one of the more positive role model aspects of the character. It sets him apart and makes him more relatable than most other comic book characters, because MOST people do aspire to fall in love and get married. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT EVEN KIDS CAN RELATE TOO. Heck... it surprises me how early "relationship drama" happens with kids these days. Most KIDS I know have crushes on someone... there are "who likes who" dramas going on, even in elementary school.

The problem is NOT that Peter is married... and it's not that he has grown into a young adult. It's the writers who seem to be out of touch with the character, NOT the fans. It's the writers who also seem to be clueless about what the fans want. You know... the FANS... the people who weekly make an INVESTMENT of time, money and emotion in the character.

I can't believe he actually compared PETER to an old Billy Joel... The stupidity leaves me speechless... I really hope there is more to this interview, and the direction, than what we see here... cause this is un-freakin-believable.

Amen, Captivated. Amen.

 

[Captivated]

Quesada is right in that the marriage is the root of many of Spider-Man's problems.

I STRONGLY disagree with this. It's the WRITER'S additude towards the marriage that has been the root of much crap in the stories.

The only solution that is marginally acceptable is some sort of time-warp that will restore the mythos and cast away the unsavory elements that have latched onto Spider-Man in recent years.

Sounds essentially like what they tried to do with the Clone Saga... I would HATE that... purple passion hate.

 

[stillanerd]

Sounds essentially like what they tried to do with the Clone Saga... I would HATE that... purple passion hate.

And then Joe Q can respond to that by breaking out a kareoke machine and start singing Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire."

 

[Captivated]

Amen, Captivated. Amen.

Have you heard what the popular reaction has been to this article?

Any chance this is a little "testing of the waters" while they figure out where to go with this story?

 

[stillanerd]

Have you heard what the popular reaction has been to this article?

Any chance this is a little "testing of the waters" while they figure out where to go with this story?

That's certainly possible. Based on what I've read on other boards like CBR and even Comicboards the reaction has been pretty negative, although there are a few "wait and see" types. Actually, Gregatron's whole "time-altering retcon" idea may have some basis. See the preview of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #8 yet?

 

[Gregatron]

You know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that last "solution" is what the mini involves given JMS obession with cosmic happenings shrouded in mysticism. Heck, I'd lay money on the idea that if does pull a "retcon punch" on Spider-Man, you can bet the whole new age, mystical spider-totem crap will be involved. And just think of the havoc that makes on continuity.

But instead of RESTORING what has been lost, he they will likely use the opportunity to completely retool and overhaul Spider-Man's history from the start officially, instead of using the "stealth reboots" (to borrow a Byrne-ism) JMS has been sneaking into the mythos for the past five years.

 

[Gregatron]

I STRONGLY disagree with this. It's the WRITER'S additude towards the marriage that has been the root of much crap in the stories.

Sounds essentially like what they tried to do with the Clone Saga... I would HATE that... purple passion hate.

The marriage IS a problem, have no doubt. I like Mary Jane. I like Peter and Mary Jane being together.

But the notion of a married Spider-Man is a paradigm shift that has led to the utter destruction of the caracter's core concepts.

It has limited his appeal and has limited story potential.


Spider-Man was created to be the ultimate TEENAGE escapism fantasy. A vital part of that is Peter's lack of stability in his life, and his bad luck with girls.

 

[Cyclops]

Really? I thought Spider-Man was created as an everyman who comicbook readers can relate to.

Remember this - if kids want to read the adventures of an unmarried Spider-Man, they have those nifty little Marvel Age books that are specifically designed for the younger reader. Remember those? Leave the Spidey we grew up with to grow up with us.

That's the thing with fictional characters - you can have it all. Adult readers can read the adventures of an adult Spider-Man who's been around for a long time and now lives as an adult, has a wife, an adult job, adult friends...

You've got TWO books with younger Spider-Man in them. Ultimate and Marvel Age or whatever they're calling it now.

 

[Symbiotica]

* * *

 

[Cyclops]

Or how about Mary Jane secretly BEING Norman Osborn in disguise all these years?!

How's THAT for a shocker?

 

[Gregatron]

Really? I thought Spider-Man was created as an everyman who comicbook readers can relate to.

Remember this - if kids want to read the adventures of an unmarried Spider-Man, they have those nifty little Marvel Age books that are specifically designed for the younger reader. Remember those? Leave the Spidey we grew up with to grow up with us.

That's the thing with fictional characters - you can have it all. Adult readers can read the adventures of an adult Spider-Man who's been around for a long time and now lives as an adult, has a wife, an adult job, adult friends...

You've got TWO books with younger Spider-Man in them. Ultimate and Marvel Age or whatever they're calling it now.

Spider-Man was created as a teenager that kids (and adults who had been kids) could relate to.

Although we can relate to Peter's real-life problems (work, school, girls, rent, etc.), the notion that he's an "everyman" is somewhat incorrect.

In reality, Peter is a near-genius-level intellect, and he's better than most of us, in terms of his morality and heroism.

But the candy-coating of "realistic" problems made him easier to relate to, even though he was basically as heroic and mythic as any superhero before him.


And you miss the point.

I want Spider-Man to be Spider-Man. I don't want "adult" Spider-Man or "children's" Spider-Man, or ten other versions.

For years and years, there was one, GOOD version of the character appropriate for all ages. And sales proved the strength of that concept.

Now, there's a different Spider-Man for every taste, season, and age group, and no consistency, and sales are dismal. Longtime fans who remember glories long past are cringing in horror.


The fact that there are 76,658 versions of Spider-Man running around cannot and should not give permission to Marvel to have carte blanche with the original Marvel Universe Spider-Man created in 1962. That's NOT a vaild excuse for the insults being heaped onto the character (and the readers).

And to use that as an excuse to insist that the original version of Spider-Man "age and change along with us" is just plain selfish.

Comics are TIMELESS FICTION. Only topical references and window dressing should change to make the stories APPEAR "relevant" to the time and place they are published in.

 

[Cyclops]

I don't see Spider-Man being a married adult as insulting. That's not a problem. The problem is Spider-Man being a mystically fated guardian of some sort with stingers, organically excreted webbing, the ability to talk to insects, and so on and soforth.

You want to save readers from insult? Turning Spider-Man into a teenage kid all over again won't do that. Remember, Stan Lee HIMSELF had Peter Parker graduate from high school and go to college. Before Pete's 50th issue, even. So while he was created as a teenager, his creator didn't keep him as a teenager for very long. So this whole "Spider-Man is supposed to be an eternal teenager" thing you've got going is total bupkis.

Just make his stories fun again. That's all he needs. Take the focus away from earth-shattering events that will shake the very foundation of Spider-Man's history to the core and just focus on writing fun stories that readers can enjoy, and guess what?

Spider-Man is saved! And you don't have to revert him to the teenager he was for a few years or so to do it!

 

[Gregatron]

I don't see Spider-Man being a married adult as insulting. That's not a problem. The problem is Spider-Man being a mystically fated guardian of some sort with stingers, organically excreted webbing, the ability to talk to insects, and so on and soforth.

You want to save readers from insult? Turning Spider-Man into a teenage kid all over again won't do that. Remember, Stan Lee HIMSELF had Peter Parker graduate from high school and go to college. Before Pete's 50th issue, even. So while he was created as a teenager, his creator didn't keep him as a teenager for very long. So this whole "Spider-Man is supposed to be an eternal teenager" thing you've got going is total bupkis.

Just make his stories fun again. That's all he needs. Take the focus away from earth-shattering events that will shake the very foundation of Spider-Man's history to the core and just focus on writing fun stories that readers can enjoy, and guess what?

Spider-Man is saved! And you don't have to revert him to the teenager he was for a few years or so to do it!

Stan and Steve didn't realize that Marvel would last, so they moved Spidey to college. Thus, Peter was in high school for 3 or so years of real time.

BUT, when Stan realized that Marvel wasn't a flash in the pan, the chronological brakes were put on. Thus, Peter was in college for 13 years, real time (and in graduate school for another 10 or so years, on and off, after that). Spidey aged veeeerrrryyyy slllloooowwwwwlllyyy.

Then the letters started coming in in the mid-70s, demanding that Spidey age and change.

And that led to the mess we're in now.

If Spidey had stayed a college-age single forever, that would have been great (although the high school version is the pures and most vital version of the character)...

...but it's too late to even go back to THAT.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Limited story potential? Greg, are you even a writer? There's plenty of story potential there if you give two craps about what you do. Writers didn't give a crap about th' marriage, so they treated it like ****. Pure and simple.

Although I shouldn't be surprised based on that poll ya made where ya told me it's impossible fer a book to have all th' qualities you listed at one time.

 

[Cyclops]

Yeah, well unfortunately, characters who are continuously written over a long period of time have TWO choices and two choices only.

Develop or stagnate. I'd much rather see the stories of the Spider-Man who has DEVELOPED over the past 44 years rather than make him into a character who has reverted to a stagnant position.

Growing up's not a problem for Spider-Man because guess what? Everybody does it. And if they don't, it means they die in childhood. Which sucks.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Presactly. I think if he was still in college by now you'd stop relating.

 

[Gregatron]

Yeah, well unfortunately, characters who are continuously written over a long period of time have TWO choices and two choices only.

Develop or stagnate. I'd much rather see the stories of the Spider-Man who has DEVELOPED over the past 44 years rather than make him into a character who has reverted to a stagnant position.

Growing up's not a problem for Spider-Man because guess what? Everybody does it. And if they don't, it means they die in childhood. Which sucks.

Sigh.


Comics are timelss fiction. Accept the conceits or move on.

A character is not stagnant to a new reader. And a new reader should grow up and move on when they get bored, or accept the basic conceits of the character and genre if they're going to stay on.

To use a Byrne-ism: don't buy a porshe and then demand that it turn into a stationwagon with room for the wife and kids.

 

[Gregatron]

Limited story potential? Greg, are you even a writer? There's plenty of story potential there if you give two craps about what you do. Writers didn't give a crap about th' marriage, so they treated it like ****. Pure and simple.

Although I shouldn't be surprised based on that poll ya made where ya told me it's impossible fer a book to have all th' qualities you listed at one time.

Fact is, the core conception of Spider-Man does not allow for a stable, married life. The marriage (as history has shown) serves as a ball and chain.

And yes, story potential was limted. A key element of the character is the notion of his bad luck with girls (and what happens when old girlfriends pop back into his life at just the wrong time). The marriage has eliminated most of the character's romantic tension, and Mary Jane has stolen the position of "spidey's confidante" from the READERS.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I had bad luck with girls too, but guess what? I ended up with a girl way hotter than I ever should've. So, what a shock! stuff like that ACTUALLY happens. It's relatable. It's realistic. Hey, there's Spidey!

And th' key element to Spidey is "with great power comes great responsibility." Dorks, geeks an' nerds, fer th' most part, can grow up and change. It's also been done. Again, there's Spidey.

Spidey is perfectly relatable before all this Other Crap, and story potential was there fer th' marriage. If you knew jack about story-telling you'd see it. But you don't, so ya can't, so go back to sleep.

 

[Cullen]

Fact is, the core conception of Spider-Man does not allow for a stable, married life. The marriage (as history has shown) serves as a ball and chain.

And yes, story potential was limted. A key element of the character is the notion of his bad luck with girls (and what happens when old girlfriends pop back into his life at just the wrong time). The marriage has eliminated most of the character's romantic tension, and Mary Jane has stolen the position of "spidey's confidante" from the READERS.

Not as it's been, no. However, I think a Nick and Nora Charles type relationship might not be a bad fit. Someone who is as involved in Spider-man as Peter is...

 

[Gregatron]

The point is, a married Spider-Man is a 180-degree turn that deviated from the original conception of the character (which is still the BEST conception of the character).

Answer me this: If Spider-Man were introduced in 1962 as he is today, would he have been successful?