Comics Get ready people, JMS and Joe Q are planning ANOTHER Spider-Man event

[Ultimate Hero]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Stan the man himself the one who first married MJ and Peter (in his newspaper strip I believe)? You can hardly say it goes against the character when the creator himself had it happen.

I do see where your arguement is coming from, but I've always seen the marriage as a good thing. I know a lot of people would probably lose interest if they disposed of MJ, including myself.

In regards to Joe Q...... wtf? I'm sure a lot more 9 year olds can understand the concept of marriage much better than what we've seen in The Other and all this Iron Spidey stuff. My ten year old brother is a perfect example; he loves comics, when he can get a hold of them, and also loves Spider-Man (and Iron Man for that matter). Yet even he finds the idea of Iron Man making Spidey a suit kind of dumb, and to be honest he thinks almost everything in the Marvel world is cool.

 

[SpyderDan]

If he had married Gwen, who knows where we'd be today. But Marvel knew better then. They knew then that what has happened today would happen if they'd done it then.

Spider-Man's story originally was that he learned an important and painful life lesson, then fumbled his way along trying to live up to it, in the awkward way that teenagers do.

It was not supposed to be a chronicle of Peter's education, career, and marriage. That only came when the fans grew older (though they didn't GROW UP), and demanded that Peter get dragged along with them into old age.

I remember hearing some place that Stan Lee said that Gwen was killed off because she was boring.

That's his origin, not his whole story.

Quite frankly, I'm glad he's grown up.

I grow weary and hungry. We can continue this another time.

Oh yes, wise one.

 

[Fathermithras]

I've seriously been willing to let them off on alot of their recent antics... I've been hopeful, waited out questionable story arcs....And thought "Well, maybe it'll turn out okay."
Bull****. The Other ended up as ****. Making changes is good, but implementing them in such a way as they did was utter crap, and wasn't in the theme of Spidey. They tore his character a new ******* with this ****ing sidekick bull**** and though I don't mind a temporary new suit... The whole deal has been written like monkeys on typewriters slamming their banana laden fingers into the history of a beloved character.
THIS is the last straw. The marriage is the only good thing they've kept in Spider-man. I'll be the first to admit I was skeptical of it for a long time, and thought maybe they should end it. But since then...It's proved to be the one consistently good thing in comics. **** you JOE. Eat **** and die.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Spyder, I think you should realize you're arguin' with a guy who thinks a comic can't have at th' same time...let's see if I get this right:

Simple, basic entertainment.
Slavish devotion to continuity/details.
Respect for the characters' history.
Consistency of character and theme.
Innovation/change.

In his little world, it's one or none, which shows how limited his scope is.

Marriage doesn't steal from a character's core, it's a DEVELOPMENT. These are serialized dramas and over time things have to progress. You can't read th' same **** that was goin' on in 1962. "It's time for the spring formal, but will Peter Parker make his date on time or will he be...shattered by the Shocker?!"

That may work just fine in th' world of Riverdale, but Spidey is supposed to take place in th' real world. His popularity comes from his EVERYMAN appeal. Underneath that mask, he could be ANYONE. He had problems where heroes were all perfect. You say Spidey isn't supposed to be relatable...on what ****ing planet? THAT is th' whole core concept behind th' character. Yes, he started out as th' first teenaged superhero, but what kept th' fans was th' fact people could see his life and go "Hey! That could be me!" And guess what? In life, people get MARRIED.

Also, 1962? Really? Half this stuff today...no, screw today. Half th' stuff from th' 90s wouldn't've even made it past th' comics code. 1962 is a different era with different sensibilities. You CAN'T exchange th' two. Stan Lee's stuff was great back in 1962, but in 1994 you have Tom Defalco an' company. Again, progression. Evolution.

And this **** today is just that; ****. It's change fer th' sake of change 'cause these guys don't have a clue.

'Nuff said!

 

[gliderpilotgirl]

*sigh* sounds like the guys at Marvel are going to learn their lesson all over again..Kill MJ/get rid of her..fans revolt, sales drop..bring her back and whine about it while we rejoice.. Go figure! If they do permanently get rid of her..I'm joining the club..no more 616 Spidey.

 

[The Infernal]

I can't believe it (not a literal statement, I happen to actually believe it). I've heard people here say that writers can't portray Peter and MJ together because they lack the imagination. Now though, I can't help but feel they're right. I used to think there was more to it than that but clearly they are determined to ruin it for him because they want to portray Spidey as a ladies man.

They talk about selling it to younger kids and have to keep in mind what they would probably want to read. For one thing I doubt they asked many, if at all. And secondly, keeping in mind I'm not a moralist, but that isn't exactly a positive image to show to a child.

I have never even thought about dropping any Spidey titles, including with what he has went through recently but if they go the distance with this plan to destroy their relationship then I would have to seriously think about how much enjoyment the titles will hold for me without MJ being Peter's one and only.

Then there is the fact that they are going to 'address' as they put it, Spidey's recent development. Though unpopular and there are some parts that even I was weary of, I can't help but think this is cowardice and ill timed. I think that even if you have went down a route that was wrong then you should deal with it. By that I don't mean pressing reset but making the best of the story and slowly developing the character to where they ought to be. I'm not sure how many of these 'events' people can take.

I also hope that they don't take him off the New Avengers anytime soon either.

 

[Langoth]

Well, at least now my Spider-Fan brothers know how I feel about my poor X-men.

I knew he'd try something like this eventually, its pathetic. By the time Quesada is done as EiC, the Marvel side of the industry will lie in ruin.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Well, I started out as X-Men, so I've been feelin' th' pain since E for Extinction.

 

[Anti-Moderator]

This is a direct quote from JQ when asked if the new costume was a success.....

"When we announced the new costume, the pre-orders on the issues it appeared in went up by a third to two-thirds. Literally overnight. Fan reaction is tough to judge. The only way you can really tell at the end of the day is by the sales on the book."



If everyone is so upset STOP buying the books NOW. You can complain on this board until your fingers are bleeding it will not change anything. All this idiot sees is sales....he said it himself. Show him the product he and JMS are putting out isn't worth the paper they are printed on. Or keep buying these books and look forward to the next event when we find out Uncle Ben touched Peter's danger zone when he was 10.

 

[Langoth]

Seriously guys, thats what I do with X-men when they suck, I just Bryne-steal.

 

[TheWhiteSpider]

I said recently in another thread:


Bringing back Ben with the notion: "Peter still learned that With.." diminishes Peter's origin and 40+ year history, making it no more important or significant than the following: Aunt May's [actress'] "death," the House of M universe, and/or any other gimmick or event story where the hero "carries with him" the after affects of things that happened, or lives lived, but not really.

It would be no different than the writers having Peter awaken the morning after the spider bite, having been shown the future that awaited him if he failed to use his spider-god given powers wisely. Peter still remembers that whole history, after all. He still knows all those lessons of life. Does it matter that is was all a dream? Does it matter if the entire Spider-Man mythos was a really long "What If" as long as there's a lasting impact?

Marvel is essentially telling us: "The history of these characters, the 2,000 stories before yesterday and the themes of the aforementioned no longer matter. All that matters is that you and the character remember something like that occuring. Now, buy our repackaged, star-creator-customized characters and shut up."

Honestly, I've no emotions or money I'm willing invest in today's creator owned copies of Spider-Man and his cast. Spidey has been "fixed" so thoroughly and his world "rocked" and "torn apart" so completely that Marvel has, finally, accomplished a spectacular feat! After 20 years of following the life and adventures of Spider-Man, I no. longer. care.

Bringing Ben back permanently? Fine. Gwen's been living as a troll the last 10 years under GW bridge? Ok. MJ has cancer, A.I.D.S. and chronic arthritis? Sure. Spidey's outing himself as Peter Parker and the one TRUE Hobgoblin? There's somebody with a credit card and an "I heart Morlun" T-Shirt that'll pick up the trade. As for me, I've already seen, read, and plan to discuss the greatest Spider-Man stories ever written -- for years to come.

No amount of BS, baggage, pseudomysticism, necrophilia etc., can undo the spirit, worth or intent of those stories. Alex Ross' beautiful, and sadly necessary, rendition of Spider-Man protecting Gwen from ravenous hands represents a certain fact. The fact that thousands of us know and take to heart what Peter, Gwen and the mythos were and had actually been about for all those years. Its true themes. Readers like Captivated, who began collecting Spidey in more recent times, rather than as a 7 year old like myself, very clearly understand those things, as well. No amount of present day pomp and shoddy writing can undo the original intent and quality of those tales.

Marvel has a "screw you" attitude towards fans like us -- those who refuse to silently ignore the inherent contradictions in today's stories in light of the rich history that came before. Interestingly, I never see the writers articulating their "extremely valid" points and "solutions" for Spidey's "ills" on these forums. F.Y.I. JQ, JMS, PAD: screw your cheap, magical, soul-eating, molted side-kick, killer version of Spider-Man. I reject it. I reject your "creative" approaches and ability, and I reject your poorly plotted books. 'Nuff said.




If one man's trash is another man's treasure, Marvel will never go bankrupt again.

 

[Abaddon]

I remember hearing some place that Stan Lee said that Gwen was killed off because she was boring.

I think you heard wrong.Stan was kinda pissed that Gwen was killed off.

 

[KingOfDreams]

Argh! ****ing Hell! As if the Spider-Man books aren't bad enough right now. Damn you, Joe Q. You may be a great artist but damn you!

 

[stillanerd]

I said recently in another thread:


Bringing back Ben with the notion: "Peter still learned that With.." diminishes Peter's origin and 40+ year history, making it no more important or significant than the following: Aunt May's [actress'] "death," the House of M universe, and/or any other gimmick or event story where the hero "carries with him" the after affects of things that happened, or lives lived, but not really.

It would be no different than the writers having Peter awaken the morning after the spider bite, having been shown the future that awaited him if he failed to use his spider-god given powers wisely. Peter still remembers that whole history, after all. He still knows all those lessons of life. Does it matter that is was all a dream? Does it matter if the entire Spider-Man mythos was a really long "What If" as long as there's a lasting impact?

Marvel is essentially telling us: "The history of these characters, the 2,000 stories before yesterday and the themes of the aforementioned no longer matter. All that matters is that you and the character remember something like that occuring. Now, buy our repackaged, star-creator-customized characters and shut up."

Honestly, I've no emotions or money I'm willing invest in today's creator owned copies of Spider-Man and his cast. Spidey has been "fixed" so thoroughly and his world "rocked" and "torn apart" so completely that Marvel has, finally, accomplished a spectacular feat! After 20 years of following the life and adventures of Spider-Man, I no. longer. care.

Bringing Ben back permanently? Fine. Gwen's been living as a troll the last 10 years under GW bridge? Ok. MJ has cancer, A.I.D.S. and chronic arthritis? Sure. Spidey's outing himself as Peter Parker and the one TRUE Hobgoblin? There's somebody with a credit card and an "I heart Morlun" T-Shirt that'll pick up the trade. As for me, I've already seen, read, and plan to discuss the greatest Spider-Man stories ever written -- for years to come.

No amount of BS, baggage, pseudomysticism, necrophilia etc., can undo the spirit, worth or intent of those stories. Alex Ross' beautiful, and sadly necessary, rendition of Spider-Man protecting Gwen from ravenous hands represents a certain fact. The fact that thousands of us know and take to heart what Peter, Gwen and the mythos were and had actually been about for all those years. Its true themes. Readers like Captivated, who began collecting Spidey in more recent times, rather than as a 7 year old like myself, very clearly understand those things, as well. No amount of present day pomp and shoddy writing can undo the original intent and quality of those tales.

Marvel has a "screw you" attitude towards fans like us -- those who refuse to silently ignore the inherent contradictions in today's stories in light of the rich history that came before. Interestingly, I never see the writers articulating their "extremely valid" points and "solutions" for Spidey's "ills" on these forums. F.Y.I. JQ, JMS, PAD: screw your cheap, magical, soul-eating, molted side-kick, killer version of Spider-Man. I reject it. I reject your "creative" approaches and ability, and I reject your poorly plotted books. 'Nuff said.




If one man's trash is another man's treasure, Marvel will never go bankrupt again.

I feel your pain, WS, especially at rereading those prophetic words of yours. But somehow I have some degree of optimism that one day, Marvel will know what to do with the 'ol webhead. BTW, here's something else from the same Wizard article that's guaranteed to make you scream in frustation.

Joe Q: "His [Spider-Man's] cast is gone. Harry Osborn's dead. Flash is in a coma. Gwen was killed. I would like to see him have a cast like the old gang."

JMS: "If we opened up the toy box and just said, "Pick someone that was always around and bring them back" obviously Flash is off the map, Harry too. Gwen would be great. But thats not possible at this point."

At least they FINALLY acknowledge that he needed a supporting cast other than other superheroes. But then whose fault was that, hmmm?

 

[littleredhat]

I just want to point out that Mary-Jane has gotten so popular that she has stared in two of her own mini-series (Mary Jane and Mary Jane Homcoming) and she currently has her own book(Spider-man Loves Mary Jane) all of which have become quite popular.(Read them they are amazing)

Don't these idiots know? Mary Jane is to Spider-man what Lois Lane is to Superman.

An OTP

One True Pairing. Jane & Tarzan. Sue and Reed.

If anyone even mentions spliting these splitting these two up and thus retconning one of the greatest love stories in comics the fans will boil over into a frothing mass of outrage.

And another thing.

Peter is the not in any way a swinging bachalor. The guy has probably wanted to get married since he was four.

He's a total commitment freak. He even fantasized about familly life with the Black Cat.

He's a domestic type who would rather stay home and watch videos with his wife or have a home cooked meal with his elderly aunt than go out clubbing.

Still don't believe me?

How many times has he proposed to a girl? I know he asked MJ twice.

Didn't they try this a couple of times already?

Well it turned out pretty bad the last ten times they tried it but I'm sure that it will work out great this time.


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[TheWhiteSpider]

I feel your pain, WS, especially at rereading those prophetic words of yours. But somehow I have some degree of optimism that one day, Marvel will know what to do with the 'ol webhead. BTW, here's something else from the same Wizard article that's guaranteed to make you scream in frustation.

At this point I'm not surprised. Actually, the last time I screamed in frustration was when you pulled out the Norman "love" pics on me, twice, in one weekend. (*WhiteSpider clenches his fists and looks upwards* "STILLANERD!")

At least they FINALLY acknowledge that he needed a supporting cast other than other superheroes. But then whose fault was that, hmmm?

I admire your faith, Still. If the character of Spider-Man ever truly reemerges from this let me know. You, me, Dragon and the Caps ["tivated" and "Stacy"] will throw a party to remember.



If one man's trash is another man's treasure, Marvel will never go bankrupt again.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Quite frankly, there's really only one true response any Spidey fan can give this news:

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

 

[Cyclops]

Not even a long, drawn-out

"Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!"?

 

[stillanerd]

At this point I'm not surprised. Actually, the last time I screamed in frustration was when you pulled out the Norman "love" pics on me, twice, in one weekend. (*WhiteSpider clenches his fists and looks upwards* "STILLANERD!")

What can I say, I'm eeeeevil.

I admire your faith, Still. If the character of Spider-Man ever truly reemerges from this let me know. You, me, Dragon and the Caps ["tivated" and "Stacy"] will throw a party to remember.



If one man's trash is another man's treasure, Marvel will never go bankrupt again.

I'm chilling the champagne right now in preperation (although it will probably have to stay in the frigdge for a good long while yet.)

 

[onceasaint]

I honestly think Id pay money to buy an issue where Pete does nothing but go grocerry shopping with his little old Aunt, carrying bags for her and watches a ball game, than read another "turn his world upside down inside out tearing it apart" story.

The whole stingers thing with him makes me think of The Monarch from Venture Bros. There's a running joke where he (a guy modeling his costume after a monarch butterfly) talks about having attributes and abilities that butterflies dont have.

The Monarch: You see, just like the flawless monarch butterfly from which I take my name, the Monarch has many ways to sting.
Dying Cabbie: Monarchs . . . . don't sting.

 

[dan1]

IS HE INSANE??!!! I thought he was just out of touch and had made some stupid decisions... but now I see I was wrong... he is completely out of his freakin mind!!!

Yeah. The guy is all over the place. Some things for sure, he's meddling and underhanded and he thinks 'sales first, fans second.'

These are attributes that I believe are mostly opposite of Stan the man Lee's EIC run.

I didn't trust this guy as soon as I saw him allow and participate in continuity going to s**t. Then things got worse when he let the movie version intrude into the comics version. The whole time he's smiling, quipping, walking the company line, lying to the fans that he is essentially like all of them.

So I go back and read this guys' bio and realize, yeah he's worked for Marvel for awhile, but not nearly as long as I originally thought.

This guy definitely stepped in *hit when he got this job. He got it based on SALES merits. Creating different lines that sold DESPITE them having nothing to do with continuity or the 616 Universe.

The movies' success gave him carte' blanche over 616 universe too.

But Joe Quesada's actions should never have been a surprise to any of you. He made his success on re-writing Marvel history.

In a Chris Rock impersonated Luke (2 Live Crew) Skywalker voice:
"That's his bread and butter mey' "

 

[dan1]

Excuse me Mr. Quesada and Mr. Straczynski, but that's not the point. The point is that YOU AND YOUR HOLLYWOOD FLUNKIES were the very people who were responsible for the state Spidey is in and one which was so obviously avoidable. You guys didn't accidently knock over the vase and break it--you guys purposefully took a hammer to it and smashed it. And of course, after you guys started gluing the broken shards back together, the vase looks nothing like it was when you broke it, and when we fail to buy it from you, you decide to smash it and reglue it again. And you know what Joe Q, JMS, and all the rest of you Hollywood flunkies? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That should've been what you at Marvel must have learned after the Clone Saga and the reboot, but obviously you haven't because your own egos made you deaf, dumb, and blind. I sort of figured this was your game plan when I made this "evolved but not changed" thread and this news confirms my suspicions. And some people a lot more insightful and wiser than myself saw this all along.

Yeah man.

So many ways we have eloquently and descriptively communicated this on paper, it can only point to us being truthful, not whining like some like to paint us.

I DO have things I like in this world that I don't complain about. Spider-Man comics were definitely one of them for many, many years.

I don't see this as whining, I see this as educating. I won't let this current Marvel leadership "burn" books without speaking up and maybe the kids out there can read this and know that these Peers of ours, not the kids out there, but the Peers of the 30 and 40 somethings on this board are trashing Spider-Man comics and I'm sorry for our generation on this one kids.

Your grandfathers' generation did a much better job and I suggest you buy and read those back issues.

Maybe you guys will eventually return Spider-Man to your grandfathers' glory.

 

[OtepApe]

I remember hearing some place that Stan Lee said that Gwen was killed off because she was boring.

I heard it as, Stan tried everything he could to make Gwen an interesting character, but the fans were just so much more keen on MJ. Stan really liked the Gwen character and he thought it was a shame that she never gained the popularity of MJ.

Personally, I loved the Gwen character. But I will be honest, the choice to kill her off was a good one imo.


So Marvel are planning yet another event with Spidey. Ah *****!

When are they going to learn???

To be honest, I do blame Marvel but I blame the fans more. Marvel are going on that you can only judge reactions by sales, but yet people still buy this. Spider-man is constantly a top selling book, I can understand people have a loyalty to Spidey, I have one myself. But the only way Marvel will listen is to stop buying the books. If you hate what's going on with Spidey, then hit Marvel where it hurts.

If you are a rabid collector that needs every issue regardless of the crap they are pulling, then wait a few months before buying the issue, then it can be bought as a back issue and Marvel won't get any of the money.

If people continue to buy the Spidey books as they are doing now, then these 'mega' events are never going to stop.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I'm just sticking around fer Civil War. Once that's over, Spidey go bye-bye.

 

[shinlyle]

I'm very disillusioned at this point. I'm not as angry as I was yesterday, but I'm still not going to buy anymore of this crap. FNSM gets the boot as soon as I can get my ass to the comic shop. That'll leave me with SSM...

Aside from Civil War and SSM, I won't be reading ANY 616 Spidey. This is just the last straw for me.

I seriously consider any so-called Spidey-Fan that supports this crap a total moron, totally unaware of who Spider-Man/Peter Parker is, or both.

There is no excuse for supporting these clowns any longer. Completists, wake up. New fans, learn to listen to those who've been reading the book a little longer. Old fans, remember what good stories are.

Drop this crap from your pull list and vote with your wallets, or stop complaining. I'm going to do with FNSM like I'v done with ASM: read it in the shop. If I care anymore, which I really don't. In fact, I think reading an issue of ASM for free is still paying too much, seeing as how it costs me valuable time.