HBO's True Detective - Part 2

[Lencho01]

Watched the finale. It was ok.

The whole season was meh. Probably would've enjoyed it more if I cared about what was really going on. I'll read the Slate article on what this season was even about later.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Next season needs to embrace more of the Weird Fiction side of things

 

[James]

That's not foreshadowing, that's a blatant premonition.

Yeah, it's pretty clumsy. Alfred's TDKR fantasy all over again.

I enjoyed bits and pieces of season 2, but ultimately it felt a little too overcomplicated to really be wholly entertaining. It definitely lacked the magic of season one -I don't necessarily think returning to two detectives is a must for a successful third season, but a more streamlined story would be appreciated.

 

[Sawyer]

That's not foreshadowing, that's a blatant premonition.

Yeah, between that and both Ani and Woodrugh's girl just knowing when their men got knocked off, it's like... should both of them and Ray's dad be at Charles Xavier's school for the gifted?

 

[Golgo-13]

Am I the only one who still has no idea why these 4 were set up?

 

[MadVillainy]

Am I the only one who still has no idea why these 4 were set up?

Youre not alone. I feel like I have to/should rewatch the make sure I picked up everything...but I really don't want to so I probably wont

 

[TheBat812]

They were set up because they wouldn't let the case go. It's not like they were 'chosen' from the beginning. They were just the unfortunate ones brought together by circumstance to take this case on, and had too much integrity to let it die like the corrupt people in charge wanted. So they, along with Davis became targets.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Dat foreshadowing:

Spoiler

I love this so much. It's just an example of wonderful character building and care and thought from Pizzolatto.

I love this even more. It just got to me so much because in a way, you just knew Ray wasn't gonna make it out of it.

Am I the only one who still has no idea why these 4 were set up?

How all set ups work? To place the blame on them instead of the Vinci Power structure because they're getting too close to revealing the truth about what they did because before they intended it to be all tied up and Ray, Ani and Paul ****ed all that up for them. Frank was set up more to be ****ed over out of his money and to be absorbed and ruined in the process which was a bonus.

 

[YoungE808]

Watched the finale. It was ok.

The whole season was meh. Probably would've enjoyed it more if I cared about what was really going on. I'll read the Slate article on what this season was even about later.

I think you spoke for at least 80% viewership just now.

 

[Broseph44]

Am I the only one who still has no idea why these 4 were set up?

Youre not alone. I feel like I have to/should rewatch the make sure I picked up everything...but I really don't want to so I probably wont

Are you guys serious, just read what Doctor Jones wrote a couple posts above. It's as simple as that.

Enjoyed the finale everything with Ray was my favorite. I love his character and his story this entire season. That foreshadowing with his father is great.

 

[James]

More like True Meh-tective, amIright?



...guys?

But seriously, is it still foreshadowing if they out and out just tell you what's going to happen? I always thought to foreshadow something was to hint at an event, not have someone describe in full detail exactly what you're going to see. It's in the same isn't it, 'foreshadow', we're shown the shadow of what's to come -not the entire thing spelled out for us.

 

[TheBat812]

More like True Meh-tective, amIright?



...guys?

But seriously, is it still foreshadowing if they out and out just tell you what's going to happen? I always thought to foreshadow something was to hint at an event, not have someone describe in full detail exactly what you're going to see. It's in the same isn't it, 'foreshadow', we're shown the shadow of what's to come -not the entire thing spelled out for us.

Well, there are different kinds of foreshadowing. One is used to hint at upcoming events in a subtle way, the other is usually in a more thematic and character defining way. The TDKR and True Detective instances are more of the latter. In hindsight it's easy to look at it and call it cheap, but in both works the use of it is incredibly important to the character and the thematic implications.

For Bruce it obviously represented a possible future full of possibility away from the darkness of the batman, and here it was Ray's ever-increasing sense of foreboding karma from the event that ruined his life - killing the man he thought wronged his wife. So in my opinion it works very well towards his journey as a man seeking redemption for himself, only to realize he's not really meant to have it, but he can save an innocent if he let's himself go to his inevitable (and in his mind, deserved) end.

 

[James]

I think the scene(s) would have had more impact if Ray's father was a little more vague. The fact that he was completely spot on about everything that happened just ended up feeling really ham-fisted. It still would have worked fine, if not better, with Ray heading into his karmic comeuppance. A little subtly would have gone a long way.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It kind of was though at the given time and within the dream context. We had no ****ing clue what he was talking about five weeks ago. It would have been more on the nose if it was spelled out for us that what his father was describing exactly was his death. It's more prophetic than anything. It's more of a poetic way of doing things because it was in a dream. Dreams in a way have a haunting subconscious and foreshadowing way about them anyway. Plus... Ray was the kind of character who was marked for death from the get go. I would have been shocked if he made it out of this story alive. It leads into the themes of reaping what you sow and that despite Ray having that arc of ultimately doing something good, he was in a position that he could never escape. Ray may have gotten away unscathed this time, but next time it's for real. That gunshot to the chest in the heart makes a lot more sense now.

 

[James]

I'll agree to disagree on the subject of whether it was good foreshadowing, or ham-fisted and lazy.

 

[Uptown Finest]

Next season needs to embrace more of the Weird Fiction side of things

I was thinking next season can be about occult detectives having to solve a supernatural like case given to them from the church. Going supernatural for a season can be good.

 

[TheBat812]

I think the scene(s) would have had more impact if Ray's father was a little more vague. The fact that he was completely spot on about everything that happened just ended up feeling really ham-fisted. It still would have worked fine, if not better, with Ray heading into his karmic comeuppance. A little subtly would have gone a long way.

In all honesty, how many people do you think even remembered that dream and its tie to his death? I'm sure I would've seen it on a rewatch, but I had no idea until that gif set was posted. It just feels like people complaining about things for the sake of it, when it's really just a great thematic addition that will strengthen the sense of overwhelming karma that Ray carries with him throughout the show. I'm not sure if it being 'more subtle' would have helped at all, it would've just felt more like a meaningless dream than one that has real substance to the themes/character. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :thumbsup:


Also, I wouldn't mind more 'occult'y stuff, but I'd love to see them tackle it more along the lines of what they did season 1 where it gives the slight feeling of potential supernatural than it turns out to be. I'm not really interested in this becoming Constantine, lol. (Not that I don't love constantine, it would just feel like it doesn't belong to this particular series)

 

[flickchick85]

I have to agree with those who found the foreshadowing to be far too heavy-handed to be effective. A little subtlety and ambiguity goes a long way, imo.

 

[TheBat812]

I feel like you're misunderstanding it's intention. It isn't foreshadowing in the typical sense, it is speaking to theme of inevitably reaping what you sow and Ray having an inclination of that. Having a more subtle representation doesn't really help in any way, it just weakens the correlation. Did you, james or anybody else actually remember back to that dream sequence when you were watching the scene?

(Btw, I don't mean to sound defensive, I find it genuinely interesting to hear about things I like and why others might not, and learn from it. )

 

[Lencho01]

I think you spoke for at least 80% viewership just now.

I read the Slate article. I missed A LOT due to boredom is seems.

 

[MadVillainy]

9 Ways Season 3 Can Approve on Season 2

1. Less Of The Dour, Borderline Parodic Self-Seriousness
2. Occasionally Change Or Counterpoint The Prevailing Mood
3. Characterization
4. A Little Less Conversation, A Little More Action
5. Streamline The Plot And The Cast Of Characters
6. Don't Wear Your References Quite So Clearly On Your Sleeve
8. Fewer Weird, Momentum-Killer Edits
8. Consider Returning To The More Collaborative Approach Of S1
9. Maybe It'd Be Better If We Took A Break
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...n-3-could-improve-on-season-2-20150811?page=3

Elaboration on the points in the link.

 

[Uptown Finest]

The more I think about it the more I like just one detective hunting down a killer next season. A vet cop who is on his last case just trying to make it alive to retirement and enjoy the rest of his days with his family. Josh Brolin in the role of the older vet cop.

 

[MadVillainy]

I mean there are so many cool ideas where they could go.

I do kinda want them to do the occult thing and keep that going if they decide to do s3.

I still like the idea of drug related crimes in Detroit or, and The Bridge kinda already did it, crimes in a Mexican/Texas border town

 

[Marz69]

I read the Slate article. I missed A LOT due to boredom is seems.

I may have to read it too. I was lost at times. I found myself drifting when Vaughn's character was on. So his part of the story eluded me

 

[shauner111]

I was thinking next season can be about occult detectives having to solve a supernatural like case given to them from the church. Going supernatural for a season can be good.

I think anybody who is expecting more occult with this show, will be disappointed. Let the occult live within the first season.

Season 1 was southern gothic. Season 2 was LA noir. Season 3 will be something else. We already know that Nic Pizzolatto wants the third season to be a Big Lebowski like partnership. That may or may not happen in the end, but im going to assume that more comedy will be thrown into the mix next time. The story will probably fit that kind of thing.