Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - Part 15

[Patchwork Man]

^Correct. The "only choice was to salvage" what they already spent 200+ million on (and approved beforehand, mind you) is a nonsensical argument. Their choice to pull a hard left was an eleventh hour decision — that bombed.

 

[Jekecy]

^Correct. The "only choice was to salvage" what they already spent 200+ million on (and approved beforehand, mind you) is a nonsensical argument. Their choice to pull a hard left was an eleventh hour decision — that bombed.

How is it nonsensical, we’re judging all of this in hindsight. Sometimes even when agreements are in place it doesn’t turn out like they anticipated and a decision has to be made in whether to follow through with revisions or scrap it and start from scratch.

WB has been through this several times in the DCEU. Lest we forget, they signed and announced Michelle MacLaren for director of WW, skipping over Patty who was simultaneously in contention. Whatever clashes the studio had with the director, was found out early and they corrected early. Same thing with the multiple directors on Flash.

In JLs case, presumably it was only after the assembly cut where WB still wasn’t pleased with the corrections from the guidelines imposed on Snyder from the start. This isn’t uncommon. Disney went through this twice with Rogue One and Solo.

It’s absurd to act as if WB just threw out hundreds of millions out there on a whim. I fully believe WB had difficult talks with Snyder post-BvS on what JL had to be changed to. When it still didn’t work out, it was too late in the stages for them to consider starting over once again.

Of course, the blame is still on them for mismanaging. After all, Rogue One was in a similar state of revising and Disney still made it all work out in the end.

 

[Superherofan123]

So we should have the full Superman bonus scene by midnight eastern time tonight, right?

 

[Consona]

It think somebody recorded me while I was watching the clip.

[YT]K8mFlfom9QQ[/YT]

 

[GothamBat]

I'm betting that Superman shirt rip scene was in slow-mo in the Snyder cut

 

[Reel-Man]

So we should have the full Superman bonus scene by midnight eastern time tonight, right?

I'd assume so.

 

[BH/HHH]

Were there honestly people who didn’t think the shirt rip was Snyders? It’s clear as day that’s Cavill didn’t have a moustache in that scene.

 

[kguillou]

In fact, isnt that whole montage at the end Snyder's?

 

[Reel-Man]

Were there honestly people who didn’t think the shirt rip was Snyders? It’s clear as day that’s Cavill didn’t have a moustache in that scene.

I did specially as i didn't notice or scan moustache-gate as most people here. I thought it was too on the nose for Snyder to do such a scene. Specially considering Whedon did the intro with Batman and the classic '89 theme.

Looks like i was wrong. I'm happy that it turned out Snyder did it.

 

[GothamBat]

I think the black suit played a more significant role than we're lead to believe

 

[_Superman_]

How is it nonsensical, we’re judging all of this in hindsight. Sometimes even when agreements are in place it doesn’t turn out like they anticipated and a decision has to be made in whether to follow through with revisions or scrap it and start from scratch.

WB has been through this several times in the DCEU. Lest we forget, they signed and announced Michelle MacLaren for director of WW, skipping over Patty who was simultaneously in contention. Whatever clashes the studio had with the director, was found out early and they corrected early. Same thing with the multiple directors on Flash.

In JLs case, presumably it was only after the assembly cut where WB still wasn’t pleased with the corrections from the guidelines imposed on Snyder from the start. This isn’t uncommon. Disney went through this twice with Rogue One and Solo.

It’s absurd to act as if WB just threw out hundreds of millions out there on a whim. I fully believe WB had difficult talks with Snyder post-BvS on what JL had to be changed to. When it still didn’t work out, it was too late in the stages for them to consider starting over once again.

Of course, the blame is still on them for mismanaging. After all, Rogue One was in a similar state of revising and Disney still made it all work out in the end.

WB was unhappy because time wise they wanted Avengers and Snyder and Johns made something along the lines of Man Of Steel maybe a little bit lighter though.

 

[misslane38]

How is it nonsensical, we’re judging all of this in hindsight. Sometimes even when agreements are in place it doesn’t turn out like they anticipated and a decision has to be made in whether to follow through with revisions or scrap it and start from scratch.

WB has been through this several times in the DCEU. Lest we forget, they signed and announced Michelle MacLaren for director of WW, skipping over Patty who was simultaneously in contention. Whatever clashes the studio had with the director, was found out early and they corrected early. Same thing with the multiple directors on Flash.

In JLs case, presumably it was only after the assembly cut where WB still wasn’t pleased with the corrections from the guidelines imposed on Snyder from the start. This isn’t uncommon. Disney went through this twice with Rogue One and Solo.

It’s absurd to act as if WB just threw out hundreds of millions out there on a whim. I fully believe WB had difficult talks with Snyder post-BvS on what JL had to be changed to. When it still didn’t work out, it was too late in the stages for them to consider starting over once again.

Of course, the blame is still on them for mismanaging. After all, Rogue One was in a similar state of revising and Disney still made it all work out in the end.

The blame is on them, I agree. It's not like WB didn't have a clue what they were getting with Snyder before they started shooting. They had a script, and they had seen what Snyder offered in his previous films. The notion that they would have had to wait until the first cut of the film for it to dawn on them that maybe they should have gone with someone else makes them look careless, as does their boneheaded plan to have such an accelerating filming schedule that there was little time between BvS's release and JL's production.

Because it's awards' season, I've been watching roundtables with various filmmakers. Recent ones with directors and actors for The Hollywood Reporter featured discussions about the filmmaking process, and one thing that stood out to me was how Guillermo del Toro, Patty Jenkins, and Emma Stone (I think) all felt that a movie is best made when the studio and the filmmaker are matched well before shooting starts and that meddling after the fact not only is a sign of mismanagement but also often doesn't help to redeem the quality of a film enough to justify the interference and expense.

 

[Limonade]

I did specially as i didn't notice or scan moustache-gate as most people here. I thought it was too on the nose for Snyder to do such a scene. Specially considering Whedon did the intro with Batman and the classic '89 theme.

Looks like i was wrong. I'm happy that it turned out Snyder did it.

So it's cool when Snyder does it, but not when Whedon does it?

Am I getting this straight?

 

[Patchwork Man]

WB has been through this several times in the DCEU. Lest we forget, they signed and announced Michelle MacLaren for director of WW, skipping over Patty who was simultaneously in contention. Whatever clashes the studio had with the director, was found out early and they corrected early. Same thing with the multiple directors on Flash.

And? She didn't make the movie. Her short pitch was accepted, but later when she presented the full hoagie, it was rejected. That's not what happened with Justice League. Same with The Flash. A director was hired, and before production began, they let him go. Not the same.

 

[Jekecy]

And? She didn't make the movie. Her short pitch was accepted, but later when she presented the full hoagie, it was rejected. That's not what happened with Justice League. Same with The Flash. A director was hired, and before production began, they let him go. Not the same.

The basic premise of studio and creative initially agreeing with one another, and no longer later in the process, is the same. In any case I’ve already provided another example of this occurring later on in the process (to success) with a different studio.

The point is there are always several stages throughout the filmmaking process where discoveries are made. Regardless of planning. There’s a good quote from Philip Seymour Hoffman on this:

“The film is made in the editing room. The shooting of the film is about shopping, almost. It's like going to get all the ingredients together, and you've got to make sure before you leave the store that you got all the ingredients. And then you take those ingredients and you can make a good cake - or not.”

Once more, I’m not absolving WB of blame here. It’s ultimately their responsibility to minimize these surprises and setbacks. All the same it should be considered the cards they were dealt with may not have been redeemable enough even with a little foresight.

 

[Patchwork Man]

The basic premise of studio and creative initially agreeing with one another, and no longer later in the process, is the same.

Except for money spent and reversal of commitment.

Michelle and Rick didn't spend any money shooting the movies they intended to make. One obviously couldn't get budget approval (among other things), and the other had some ideas that didn't fly with the suits (among other things).

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Jeckey the point is you don't finish a product and then at the last minute decide you want something different yet at the same time not start the process over. What WB did was half *$+ it which is why it was a failure. Even Snyder's "abomination" BvS made more money than JL. I'm sure Snyder would be laughing at JL if his name wasn't on it.

 

[Tra-El]

Reposting this here as well as my comment from the lounge.

Oh ****! So the s-shirt rip was Zack!

For some reason I always thought the shirt rip was a reshoot. It seems to me like Zack's cut was on point and he was delving into his own course correcting. Everything we've seen from Snyder has been superior to the end result. Then WB release's the Snyder Supes cut scene and everyone is admitting how the cinematography is on another level. WB must love egg on their face.

 

[Patchwork Man]

For some reason I always thought the shirt rip was a reshoot. It seems to me like Zack's cut was on point and he was delving into his own course correcting. Everything we've seen from Snyder has been superior to the end result. Then WB release's the Snyder Supes cut scene and everyone is admitting how the cinematography is on another level. WB must love egg on their face.

Haha! Double true.

 

[kguillou]

Bottom line is WB was trying to have their cake and eat it too. I think the studio had a good relationship with Zack, who obviously is a team player and willing to play ball with his bosses and take it on the chin for them. Studios love a guy like that. They obviously liked Zack's style of filmmaking but were...trying to nurture and steer him into making a certain type of film that he just isn't built for. Post BVS, the studio needed JL by any means necessary to be a light, family fun, Guardians of the Galaxy like film and Zack is not built that way. He doesnt have that in his filmmaking DNA. So no matter how many notes and mandates his bosses gave him, they just couldnt force a "Guardians of the Galaxy" out of him.

There's zero doubt in my mind Zack's JL movie was an infinitely more palatable film for fans and audiences than MoS and BvS, just look at the ending montage, which Zack shot, its obvious the guy filmed the movie in a different headspace than the prior two movies. Something hopeful and more fun. But it just wasn't what WB wanted. It wasn't the tone or STYLE of movie they wanted. Make no mistake, the movie we got in theaters was 110% the movie the studio had in mind all along: harmless, fun, funny, whimsical orchestral score, and non contemplative and non controversial. Problem is...it just wasnt good enough, it royally pissed off the loyal fanbase this universe did have and that fanbase is loudly spewing their disgust for what the the studio's done all over social media and worst of all, all of their dirty laundry is slowly coming out and now WB has a major PR mess to clean up.

Theres two sides to every story and of course WB wanted nothing more than to make this movie loved and successful but the tactics and choices they made were all misguided and now its biting them back tenfold.

 

[GothamBat]

Bottom line: Just get Snyder's billionaire founder of vero friend to fork out 30 mill and complete the Snyder cut and all will be right with the world. They can even make Whedon's JL an honorary addition to the MCU.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

For some reason I always thought the shirt rip was a reshoot. It seems to me like Zack's cut was on point and he was delving into his own course correcting. Everything we've seen from Snyder has been superior to the end result. Then WB release's the Snyder Supes cut scene and everyone is admitting how the cinematography is on another level. WB must love egg on their face.

Elfman's score lacked the proper buildup to that scene probably because it was tailored to Zimmer's from the start.

If it came together as intended, we might've ended up with something like this.

[YT]CEbx4MUEvnU[/YT]

Oh well, it is what it is.

 

[Herolee10]

Elfman's score lacked the proper buildup to that scene probably because it was tailored to Zimmer's from the start.

If it came together as intended, we might've ended up with something like this.

[YT]CEbx4MUEvnU[/YT]

Oh well, it is what it is.

So probably something like this...

https://vimeo.com/254944863

 

[flickchick85]

Am I missing something? I thought Zimmer was never a composer on this film? Y'all are talking like losing Junkie XL is the equivalent of losing Zimmer. It's really, REALLY not. You can blame WB/Whedon for a lot of things, but Zimmer chose not to do this while Zack was still on board.

 

[kguillou]

Elfman's score lacked the proper buildup to that scene probably because it was tailored to Zimmer's from the start.

If it came together as intended, we might've ended up with something like this.

[YT]CEbx4MUEvnU[/YT]

Oh well, it is what it is.

Cotdamn that ending...one of the best CBM endings ever hands down.

Ugh, it hurts so much.