Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[chintai80]

WB studios wondering if it should make another solo superman movie:

WB studios after 1 second of wondering:

 

[Superchan]

It triggers me immensely to see Superman stuck in this limbo of uncertainty while WB continue to churn out a constant stream of Batman movies.. and I love Batman.

The dust has barely settled on Bale/Nolan's franchise & they're already kick starting potentially another new trilogy.

I have no interest in seeing Superman show up in Black Adam, Shazam or cameo in any other DC film unless it's actually going to lead somewhere ie to more of his own content.

Not really, Batman had 4 movies in the 21st while Superman had 3, I wouldn't call that constant stream and let's not forget that Matt Reeves was on Batman for more than 3 years before we started getting concrete news on the movie so it's not like it's been an easy journey for Batman after WB and Snyder (more WB than Snyder) f***ed up the DCEU.

I understand that you're all frustrated with the state of events and I get it but I don't think using Herolee's method of self perpetuating negativity and hopelessness is the way to go here.

I want a Superman ASAP, but you know what, I want a GOOD Superman movie more and if that can't happen quickly then I don't want a Superman movie ASAP.
WB took their sweet time making a Superman movie (12 yrs to be exact from the day thy got the rights in 94 until SR came out in 06) and the result was mopey, emo Superman garbage. WB then took their sweet time again (7 years to be exact) and we got mopey, emo Superman garbage.
WB then switched it up and rushed everything and put Batman in the midst and we got mopey, emo Superman rubbish with the added bonus of nihilism and psycho Batfleck.Hence whether they're taking their time or rushing, WB seem to do nothing but crap the red cape sheets.
But something has occurred to me, the WB that did all that isn't the WB that is being run by Walter Hamada and since I know that things are happening with Superman behind the scenes as we speak I have decided to just sit back, grab a non alcoholic beverage, avoid negative thoughts and wait and maybe, just maybe WB will surprise us this time, I mean heck with Trump as president, Messi leaving Barcelona and Covid19 (the gift that keeps giving) I can easily say that 'stranger things have happened'.

 

[MbJ]

What frustrates me most with WB with Superman is they seem to think he’s Not able to generate huge box office when the opening weeeknds to Superman Returns & Man of Steel proved he is. Even as someone who loves Man of Steel the last two solo movies were niche takes that weren’t able to sustain an audience for a long theatrical run. If Superman had had a movie that clicked with general audiences like the Dark Knight or Aquaman did he’d easily generate a billion dollars at the box office. The issue here is WB who seem to be the only people on the planet who don’t get what it takes to make a blockbuster Superman that connects with the audience.

Agreed. We live in a world where superheroes that audiences weren't familiar with a few years ago are regularly top grossers. The idea that audiences have an aversion to Superman is asinine. You'd think Superman regularly bringing in huge amounts of merchandise money would demonstrate that.

 

[flickchick85]

They really could do an entire pocket of films with Superman and his side characters. The films you could spin out from Superman; Supergirl, Superboy, Lobo, Krypto, Steel etc. So much potential.

That's why I feel he's best-suited to long-form storytelling (TV) if they can get eventually get the budgets to match (and I feel like they're getting pretty damn close, seeing how much Amazon is spending on Lord of the Rings). Supes' world has SO many great characters and bits of mythology to explore which couldn't be done justice in a 2-hour movie that requires...a certain formula, let's say. Not every great Superman story is some grand invasion spectacle that demands a big screen. I love watching him deal with the day-to-day street level Metropolis stuff just as much as that kind of thing. Also his space adventures are often quite a ride, even if most of them aren't structured to make good movie adaptations. I hope Matt Reeves' Gotham-verse on HBO Max leads to something like this for Supes at some point.

 

[Iceman]

They really could do an entire pocket of films with Superman and his side characters. The films you could spin out from Superman; Supergirl, Superboy, Lobo, Krypto, Steel etc. So much potential.

Now that the battle for content for proprietary streaming platforms is hotting up, things like this should happen once we get a successful enough Superman based property. I don’t care too much how it happens, even if it takes a successful Supergirl film to kick this part of the DC universe into action.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I consider myself to be a pretty patient person, but I can't for the life of me understand how such an iconic character as Superman can't get a proper trilogy in this day and age when superhero movies are bigger than they have ever been. Man of Steel aside Warner Bros/DC has had plenty of time to do the character justice and they just haven't IMO which makes me think that they really don't care about the character all that much either.

I grew up watching BTAS and STAS religiously and those shows are the sole reason why I became a fan of superheroes in the first place, and while I love both characters equally it always bothered me seeing one of them continuously getting shafted while the other gets all the attention and success.

 

[Iceman]

I consider myself to be a pretty patient person, but I can't for the life of me understand how such an iconic character as Superman can't get a proper trilogy in this day and age when superhero movies are bigger than they have ever been. Man of Steel aside Warner Bros/DC has had plenty of time to do the character justice and they just haven't IMO which makes me think that they really don't care about the character all that much either.

I grew up watching BTAS and STAS religiously and those shows are the sole reason why I became a fan of superheroes in the first place, and while I love both characters equally it always bothered me seeing one of them continuously getting shafted while the other gets all the attention and success.

MoS had a lot of potential while SR was a misfire. Hopefully everything falls into place next time like it did with Nolan and Batman after B&R. A great Superman film can definitely still happen. The original Superman movie kicked things off for the whole genre to an audience who weren’t anywhere near as accepting of CBMs. Superman can adapt to the times and hit gold.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

The problem with the character on screen over the last few entries is his lack of a personality. He doesn't interact with much outside of saving things and reacting to something. The closest we get to a scene like that where he just gets to enjoy something and show himself off and have a moment was the bathtub scene in BVS. But even then its underplayed with sad face lois and Clark semi fighting about his place in the world. There needs to be more whimsical fun and light heartedness from the character. I mean the guy was frowning making eggs for god's sake lol. Really?

 

[MaceB]

I just don't think it's the generation for Superman. Superman represents a time when America was great.... when we were the shining city on a hill. Superman represented the American dream - an immigrant who won respect and success through hard work and respecting his peers. He's called an eagle scout, and that's the kind of leader he represents... a guy that draws in the lines.

There's nothing wrong with that. But in western civilization today, people are fed up. The old dreams feel like lies. Folks don't believe their superiors anymore. They don't believe that if they do the right thing day in and day out, then they'll be treated right. We're more likely to agree with folks who say, "if you want something to happen, you have to make it happen... rules be darned." A much more Batman-like philosophy.

Superman feels out of place. He feels old fashioned. Like a relic from a time that no longer exists. IMO.

Then there's the fact that he's nearly indestructible, and creating tension is difficult. He's a hard character to write for. WB doesn't really know what to do with him, because the general audience just isn't super into him anymore, IMO.

 

[B]

Not really, Batman had 4 movies in the 21st while Superman had 3, I wouldn't call that constant stream and let's not forget that Matt Reeves was on Batman for more than 3 years before we started getting concrete news on the movie so it's not like it's been an easy journey for Batman after WB and Snyder (more WB than Snyder) f***ed up the DCEU.

I understand that you're all frustrated with the state of events and I get it but I don't think using Herolee's method of self perpetuating negativity and hopelessness is the way to go here.

I want a Superman ASAP, but you know what, I want a GOOD Superman movie more and if that can't happen quickly then I don't want a Superman movie ASAP.
WB took their sweet time making a Superman movie (12 yrs to be exact from the day thy got the rights in 94 until SR came out in 06) and the result was mopey, emo Superman garbage. WB then took their sweet time again (7 years to be exact) and we got mopey, emo Superman garbage.
WB then switched it up and rushed everything and put Batman in the midst and we got mopey, emo Superman rubbish with the added bonus of nihilism and psycho Batfleck.Hence whether they're taking their time or rushing, WB seem to do nothing but crap the red cape sheets.
But something has occurred to me, the WB that did all that isn't the WB that is being run by Walter Hamada and since I know that things are happening with Superman behind the scenes as we speak I have decided to just sit back, grab a non alcoholic beverage, avoid negative thoughts and wait and maybe, just maybe WB will surprise us this time, I mean heck with Trump as president, Messi leaving Barcelona and Covid19 (the gift that keeps giving) I can easily say that 'stranger things have happened'.

In the last 30 years, Superman, arguably the most iconic superhero in the world, has had 2 solo films. Superman Returns which was ultimately a failure on it's own, then Man of Steel which was successful enough to get a sequel, however WB immediately skipped about 5 steps & moved straight to team up movies with BvS.

Compare that to Batman in the last 30 years, you've Returns, Forever, B&R, TDK trilogy & come next year you'll have The Batman which I would imagine will at least lead to a sequel but more than likely another trilogy. There's 7 films, 3-4 different incarnations of the character in the same time-frame.

Throw in Spider-Man while you're at it as I'd say it's between Superman, Spider-Man & Batman as to who's the most popular comicbook character. He's had 7 films since 2001 spanning 3 different incarnations.. 8 if you want to include Into The Spider-Verse.

 

[Aurakles]

The problem with the character on screen over the last few entries is his lack of a personality. He doesn't interact with much outside of saving things and reacting to something. The closest we get to a scene like that where he just gets to enjoy something and show himself off and have a moment was the bathtub scene in BVS. But even then its underplayed with sad face lois and Clark semi fighting about his place in the world. There needs to be more whimsical fun and light heartedness from the character. I mean the guy was frowning making eggs for god's sake lol. Really?

The Supeman in MOS / BVS does not lack a personality.
His personality might be more thoughtful and more serious than you might like, but it is still a personality.
Even if he was sad all the time (which he wasn't) that would still be a personality.

This version of Superman is one who is faced with difficult situations and moral quandaries. He's someone who does enjoy life when he gets the opportunity, for example when he comes home to the farm in MOS, his first flight or when he starts working at the Daily Planet.
He adapts his tone to match the situation, ultimately he wasn't in a lot of whimsical situations. When he was cooking eggs, his focus was primarily on the television and the discussion of whether he was responsible for peoples deaths. I much prefer a Superman who takes his impact on the lives of others seriously rather than one who ignores it because he's more interested in his breakfast.

If you don't like his personality, that's fair enough, but he does still have one, and it seems to be responsible and conscientious.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

The Supeman in MOS / BVS does not lack a personality.
His personality might be more thoughtful and more serious than you might like, but it is still a personality.
Even if he was sad all the time (which he wasn't) that would still be a personality.

This version of Superman is one who is faced with difficult situations and moral quandaries. He's someone who does enjoy life when he gets the opportunity, for example when he comes home to the farm in MOS, his first flight or when he starts working at the Daily Planet.
He adapts his tone to match the situation, ultimately he wasn't in a lot of whimsical situations. When he was cooking eggs, his focus was primarily on the television and the discussion of whether he was responsible for peoples deaths. I much prefer a Superman who takes his impact on the lives of others seriously rather than one who ignores it because he's more interested in his breakfast.

If you don't like his personality, that's fair enough, but he does still have one, and it seems to be responsible and conscientious.

If you call that a personality. I don't. To show people different sides of Superman as a person you have to put him in many differing circumstances that would adhere to that part of his personality. Now you say when he comes home to the farm is one of those times but nothing much happened in it for people to care. The thing you seem to like about this Superman is the one thing that's turning alot of people off, that hes taken to seriously as a character. There needs to be a middle ground here. I love this character but I also dont take it so seriously that I feel he has to always be deep or conflicted or contemplative in order to be interesting. In my opinion that is absolute bolocks. When I watch a Superman film I don't always want to feel like hes like me, I want him to be a little unattainable as a character so that I strive to want to be more like him. To me Cavills Superman is to try hard with the seriousness that it becomes almost a parody of itself.

 

[Aurakles]

I just don't think it's the generation for Superman. Superman represents a time when America was great.... when we were the shining city on a hill. Superman represented the American dream - an immigrant who won respect and success through hard work and respecting his peers. He's called an eagle scout, and that's the kind of leader he represents... a guy that draws in the lines.

There's nothing wrong with that. But in western civilization today, people are fed up. The old dreams feel like lies. Folks don't believe their superiors anymore. They don't believe that if they do the right thing day in and day out, then they'll be treated right. We're more likely to agree with folks who say, "if you want something to happen, you have to make it happen... rules be darned." A much more Batman-like philosophy.

Superman feels out of place. He feels old fashioned. Like a relic from a time that no longer exists. IMO.

Then there's the fact that he's nearly indestructible, and creating tension is difficult. He's a hard character to write for. WB doesn't really know what to do with him, because the general audience just isn't super into him anymore, IMO.

Superman was created during the great depression, at time when things were worse than they are now.
People were fed up, they didn't trust "their superiors" and Superman represented that, in his very first issue he deals with a corrupt Governor. He was a champion of the oppressed, of the working class, he was an outlaw chased by the police.
Superman isn't out dated or out of place, certain versions of him might be, but he's a varied character that can be useful in any time time period.

 

[B]

I just don't think it's the generation for Superman. Superman represents a time when America was great.... when we were the shining city on a hill. Superman represented the American dream - an immigrant who won respect and success through hard work and respecting his peers. He's called an eagle scout, and that's the kind of leader he represents... a guy that draws in the lines.

There's nothing wrong with that. But in western civilization today, people are fed up. The old dreams feel like lies. Folks don't believe their superiors anymore. They don't believe that if they do the right thing day in and day out, then they'll be treated right. We're more likely to agree with folks who say, "if you want something to happen, you have to make it happen... rules be darned." A much more Batman-like philosophy.

Superman feels out of place. He feels old fashioned. Like a relic from a time that no longer exists. IMO.

Then there's the fact that he's nearly indestructible, and creating tension is difficult. He's a hard character to write for. WB doesn't really know what to do with him, because the general audience just isn't super into him anymore, IMO.

This is the sort of rhetoric those at WB that are making the decisions regarding this sort of thing, tell their superiors as to why one of their most valuable properties is sitting dormant.

If anything I think now is the perfect time for a Superman story to be told, if a character like Captain America can be made to work so can Superman.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

Superman as a character will never be irrelivant in any era unless you do what SR and MOS did and change so much of the character to fit that specific era.

 

[Aurakles]

If you call that a personality. I don't. To show people different sides of Superman as a person you have to put him in many differing circumstances that would adhere to that part of his personality. Now you say when he comes home to the farm is one of those times but nothing much happened in it for people to care. The thing you seem to like about this Superman is the one thing that's turning alot of people off, that hes taken to seriously as a character. There needs to be a middle ground here. I love this character but I also dont take it so seriously that I feel he has to always be deep or conflicted or contemplative in order to be interesting. In my opinion that is absolute bolocks. When I watch a Superman film I don't always want to feel like hes like me, I want him to be a little unattainable as a character so that I strive to want to be more like him. To me Cavills Superman is to try hard with the seriousness that it becomes almost a parody of itself.

Having a sad, or mournful or boring personality is still having a personality. I don't think he is those things, but even if he is, that's still a type of personality. Personality is not a synonym for charm or charisma.
Again, if you don't like his personality I can respect that, but he most definitely has one.

I can respect wanting a less serious Superman film, just yesterday on another thread I was saying they should make a wacky animated film with Mr Mxzyptlk. I don't want Superman to always be written one way or another. One thing I love about these characters is their adaptability, that they can be silly or serious, that there are a variety of different versions.
I don't seek a middle a ground, the "right" version of Superman. I want a bunch of different versions, a buffet of options so that everyone can enjoy a take that speaks to them.

 

[Aurakles]

Superman as a character will never be irrelivant in any era

Completely agree with this. He is a character that speaks to universal aspects of humanity.

 

[BlackSuitTrael]

I consider myself to be a pretty patient person, but I can't for the life of me understand how such an iconic character as Superman can't get a proper trilogy in this day and age when superhero movies are bigger than they have ever been. Man of Steel aside Warner Bros/DC has had plenty of time to do the character justice and they just haven't IMO which makes me think that they really don't care about the character all that much either.

I grew up watching BTAS and STAS religiously and those shows are the sole reason why I became a fan of superheroes in the first place, and while I love both characters equally it always bothered me seeing one of them continuously getting shafted while the other gets all the attention and success.

I don't necessarily buy the whole "They don't get Superman" ordeal over at WB. They simply got lost in the shared universe; MCU connected model. The pressure to get to JL after the Avengers was just too much for the studio to handle. The moment they decided to kick off the shared aspect with BvS, Zack's vision for Superman became a bigger picture situation. Sadly, it got lost in translation. I think now with the Snyder Cut being restored and even with the theatrical cut leaving loose ends for future storytellers, it allows for the character to be seen in a BIG event film where it'll set a new precedent for the future of the character. We'll know tons more about Superman in 2021. I know we've been patient as all hell (this annoys me the most), but we're getting there.

 

[STARMAN]

I get the frustration. We went 19 years without a film and a half dozen Superman projects that never were. We get Superman Returns and not the trilogy it was meant to be. We get MOS and it morphs into BvS. We get radio silence from WB except for rumors that the studio is questioning Superman's relevance to modern audiences. After all these years there is still so much untapped potential in Superman and his mythos on the big screen and yet it feels like WB struggles to see it.

 

[SupermanFan]

I get the frustration. We went 19 years without a film and a half dozen Superman projects that never were. We get Superman Returns and not the trilogy it was meant to be. We get MOS and it morphs into BvS. We get radio silence from WB except for rumors that the studio is questioning Superman's relevance to modern audiences. After all these years there is still so much untapped potential in Superman and his mythos on the big screen and yet it feels like WB struggles to see it.

I think it all comes down to them looking at it from a business perspective which tbf to them is how they look at things. They’re not fans of this stuff like we are.

I think what frustrates me is the demand for a Superman film is clear to see although who knows in a non COVID world maybe we’d have a film on development by now.

 

[BlackSuitTrael]

I get the frustration. We went 19 years without a film and a half dozen Superman projects that never were. We get Superman Returns and not the trilogy it was meant to be. We get MOS and it morphs into BvS. We get radio silence from WB except for rumors that the studio is questioning Superman's relevance to modern audiences. After all these years there is still so much untapped potential in Superman and his mythos on the big screen and yet it feels like WB struggles to see it.

The moment you think there's traction being gained, there's brief steps taken back that results in years. As much as I love BvS and Zack's vision, BvS certainly was more of the introduction of the Batman in so many ways. They needed to get to Bruce so in every way, Man of Steel was the only film where Superman was fleshed out. This is why I TRULY never understood fans blaming Superman and piting the shortcomings on the character when BvS was Batman driven and where Clark was not even featured in Josstice League's marketing Truly baffling.

Though, Snyder and Att are doing it right and marketing Zack's JL in beast mode. They wasted no time featuring Supes.

 

[STARMAN]

I think it all comes down to them looking at it from a business perspective which tbf to them is how they look at things. They’re not fans of this stuff like we are.

I think what frustrates me is the demand for a Superman film is clear to see although who knows in a non COVID world maybe we’d have a film on development by now.

Yeah. There is still demand for Superman. Many other franchises get resurrected time and again such as Godzilla, Terminator, Predator and Aliens to name a few without half the interest and fanfare Superman still holds.

We'll see Superman again. We'll all be here on the Hype talking about how there's no Superman film and suddenly we'll click a link to the trades announcing one in development. Like when Deadline shocked everyone with news Nolan was shepherding a new Superman film.

It'll happen eventually and we'll all be here celebrating.

 

[elgaz]

The issue of Superman's relevance to a modern audience is one I keep hearing, but don't quite get. He is arguably more relevant now than ever; an immigrant, trying to find his place in the world whilst still honoring all the ideals he believes in, which are somewhat ageless but have a contemporary importance right now - equality, honesty, honour, kindness, respect. Ideals that many seem to have cast aside.

To a certain extent, Captain America is the Marvel mirror image of Superman. Not in terms of his powers, but in his attitude and the old fashioned view of some that he's a grown up boy scout. Brought up to respect people, doesn't curse, doesn't go over the top with how he handles bad guys, believes in the truth and justice and all that. Yet Marvel have shown that not only is it totally possible to make his character work in a modern setting, but he became one of the most popular MCU heroes ever. He has a very similar perseverance and never-give-up attitude to Superman, and I doubt there was a single audience member during Endgame who wasn't cheering him on - silently or loudly - when he got up onto his feet to face Thanos' army on his own.

Those facets of the characters of both Superman and Captain America are ageless. They will always appeal to the good in people no matter the era. They're fundamental ideals we all aspire to. Zack Snyder - love or hate him - certainly got some of this concept right in MOS, and had Jor-El try to impart this to Kal-El.

Though, Snyder and Att are doing it right and marketing Zack's JL in beast mode. They wasted no time featuring Supes.

The original JL marketing really irritated me. Everyone knew Superman was going to be in it. He's a core member of the JL. Cavill was on all the cast lists. There were pap pics of him arriving on set. Yet they kept leaving him out of all the marketing, like it's a huge secret that he was going to be resurrected or appear in some shape or fashion. I think leaving the (arguably) most iconic member of the Justice League out of the marketing for their first cinematic appearance was a pretty major faux pas.

 

[Iceman]

I get the frustration. We went 19 years without a film and a half dozen Superman projects that never were. We get Superman Returns and not the trilogy it was meant to be. We get MOS and it morphs into BvS. We get radio silence from WB except for rumors that the studio is questioning Superman's relevance to modern audiences. After all these years there is still so much untapped potential in Superman and his mythos on the big screen and yet it feels like WB struggles to see it.

Even the biggest franchise, Star Wars, had nothing for 16 years and then served up some utter tripe, and then another 10 year gap! I think the ultimate battle for content (that helped make the Fox asset sale to Disney happen) will help us get the Superman film we're looking for at some point in the not too faraway future.

 

[MbJ]

Henry has pretty consistently said the plan was for Superman to evolve so that by MOS2 he'd be the warmer and more optimistic Superman people wanted in the first place, and that this arc was unfortunately delayed in favor of doing Batman v Superman and Justice League first. And then neither BVS or JL got the reception the studio wanted and MOS2 ended up in limbo as a result.

Now, YMMV on whether that was a smart idea (I've seen a number of fans snark that it was dumb to play the long game with Supeman) or if MOS2 would've been any less divisive than the first movie, but it's clear Cavill got screwed the most on WB chasing that MCU money. Even with the disastrous reactions to BVS and JL, Wonder Woman and Aquaman came out smelling like roses in a way Superman didn't.