BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 1

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I wasn't comparing such acting tools to compare. More of the "wooden" aspects where people said Cavill had his wooden moments. It's silly to compare RDJR and CH's performances to Cavill's and compare their performances to one another. First off, Thor and IM had a much, much lighter tone of dialogue mixed in with light hearted moments of humor and comedic value, which opens up an actors ability to be "charismatic" or charming.

IM and Thor are products of a Marvel based setting that takes breaks from all things serious. Man of Steel was a balls to the walls origin film that left no room for anything but heavy sci-fi and realistic situations that called for an intense script even when the script called for a more lighter tone, which was rare. Cavill wasn't allowed to be that, but he was allowed to be intense and conflicted and with that, he nailed it. The ending to Man of Steel should really excite Super-fans. That smile he gave Lois Lane was a sign of things to come and that wa charismatic and heartfelt just in that one smile so I'm looking forward to Cavill's DP Clark Kent, where that character alone will call for some comedic references in value. Can't wait for HC's interpretation of that boundry.
I think in that regard, Marvek plays more to the strength of actors than DC. A couple of pages back, many people agreed that going by MOS, more or less anybody could have acted the part of Superman in MOS. Nothing much to act on paper, and nothing that relied on the star's charisma. I think that is why Marvel's films are so keenly cast. An actor is doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

And herein lies the triumph of Marvel. In the best of their films, they are able to not just convey the star's charisma but also humanity, heroism, nobility and just hard on badassery. When Marvel heroes kick ass, they kick it with abandon.

It is this all round persona which so endears them to general audience. They know what they are, whereas the DC films think that they are some kind of treatise on the human condition and coming away looking ludicrous for that. But lets not turn this into a Marvel vs DC thing.

The kind of performances that Hemsworth and RDJ are doing are nothing if not skillful. Its acting where they access the deepest recesses of their natural charm and general bonhomie and it is brought to bear in scripts which allow them to fully express themselves. Marvel heroes also get angry and sad and hung up but they also get happy and amused and excited are wonderfully humane. The joie de vivre is both infectious and life affirming.

I think Cavill can be all this too. If he is given the opportunity. But if he's told by the script to just skulk and mope, he won't be able to fully express himself.
 
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@ slumcat and of course all pals from the hype :D

tumblr_mvpg9luBWx1smugg3o1_1280.jpg


in this scene for example we see the Superman from the comics that IMO has never been on screen before; "BADASS", FEARLESS, Seeing Superman as the boss as in the comics and in that aspect my friends Cavill nailed it and own it :cwink:
 
I think Cavill can be all this too. If he is given the opportunity. But if he's told by the script to just skulk and mope, he won't be able to fully express himself.

Man of Steel is the very beginning. It's going to be the cornerstone to the eventual DC Universe and it was the Superman story that needed to be told to break that ice. I don't think skulking and moping is going to be a long-term thing for Cavill OR Superman. The one aspect for a Superman actor to be fully judged upon, the Daily Planet Clark Kent character and the ability of the actor to transform from that personality to another needs to be fully utilized and we haven't seen that yet. We just got a tease at the end there, and from the looks of it, the potential seems promising for an upbeat Superman persona in future installments..or atleast much more opportunities to give Cavill to make it his own.
 
Man of Steel is the very beginning. It's going to be the cornerstone to the eventual DC Universe and it was the Superman story that needed to be told to break that ice. I don't think skulking and moping is going to be a long-term thing for Cavill OR Superman. The one aspect for a Superman actor to be fully judged upon, the Daily Planet Clark Kent character and the ability of the actor to transform from that personality to another needs to be fully utilized and we haven't seen that yet. We just got a tease at the end there, and from the looks of it, the potential seems promising for an upbeat Superman persona in future installments..or atleast much more opportunities to give Cavill to make it his own.
:up:
 
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So it's come to my attention that my Deathmatch competitor is campaigning over in the X-Men forums...

I cannot allow this!

Don't lets get beat by a bunch of X-Men fans! Superman fans UNITE!

For Truth and Justice, click on the link below and VOTE FOR ME! :D
 
So it's come to my attention that my Deathmatch competitor is campaigning over in the X-Men forums...

I cannot allow this!

Don't lets get beat by a bunch of X-Men fans! Superman fans UNITE!

For Truth and Justice, click on the link below and VOTE FOR ME! :D
what's the purpose of the battle?
 
Thinking about TDK Returns....

I think it’s one of the best Batman comics. Yes, first and foremost it is a Batman story. You often hear people critiquing Superman’s role. Looking on the plus side, he put his body (and life) on the line to divert a nuclear detonation which was going to kill millions. Without him, and only him, it’s bye-bye. Definitely a noble act.

He knows Bruce has feigned his death, but is enough of a gentleman to smile, wink and let bygones be bygones despite what ensued. Superman also gets what he wants more or less, with Batman operating more discreetly with his crew underground instead of drawing attention, which was one of the main beefs the government had.
 
Good acting does not equal mobility of facial muscles. Otherwise Jim Carrey would be as celebrated as Laurence Olivier!

Good acting is the ability to convey different feelings and emotions and thoughts, with or without changing your expression. And in that aspect, Cavill was a bit limited. He conveyed just 2-3 things, introspection, anguish and wrath. Or something along those lines. Frankly the format these movies are made in, there isn't much for an actor to do frankly. The least an actor can be is charismatic. Even in that regard I think Cavill was a bit lacking. Look at Downey in Iron Man films or Hemsworth in Thor films, the way they just overwhelm and dominate the movie, that is called charisma. Even Loki has it!
I think Henry has plenty of charisma. You want to watch him when he's on the screen. That's charisma. (Being as drop-dead gorgeous as he is doesn't hurt! Or that's part of his charisma. :funny: ) Being "fun" or "funny" isn't a requirement.

And I'd argue that Tom Hiddleston has far more charisma being himself than when he was playing Loki. I wasn't all that enthralled with him in Avengers, but he's far more attractive in interviews and off-screen things.

I think we'll see more of Cavill's potential just because hopefully they will have even more to say about the character... if the material is juicy enough, he'll have a lot to work with.

As much as I love origin stories, especially Superman's, there is an element of predictability in that it's always going to be about how the character grows to be a hero.

The sequels are where it gets really interesting, because a lot of superhero movies just don't really know where their character goes from there. Some of them throw him right back down in the dirt so that he has to climb up again. Some of them deal with actual issues that are personal to that specific hero.

I hope MOS 2 is the latter.
I agree with this.

Bale didn't have a whole lot to do in BB, but he was given more extreme emotional beats to work with, especially early on.

Many folks here will argue that Bale wasn't given much to do in the entire trilogy, but I disagree. I think he was playing a very restrained character, and to show emotion believably while being restrained is IMO the true mark of a great actor. Many actors would have overacted the part and come off amateur.

I don't think Cavill is as good an actor as Bale. He doesn't have the sensitivity. But the biggest weaknesses of MOS didn't come from Cavill's lack of sensitivity around the part. The flaws already present just made it look more flawed.

I think in that regard, Marvek plays more to the strength of actors than DC. A couple of pages back, many people agreed that going by MOS, more or less anybody could have acted the part of Superman in MOS. Nothing much to act on paper, and nothing that relied on the star's charisma. I think that is why Marvel's films are so keenly cast. An actor is doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

And herein lies the triumph of Marvel. In the best of their films, they are able to not just convey the star's charisma but also humanity, heroism, nobility and just hard on badassery. When Marvel heroes kick ass, they kick it with abandon.

It is this all round persona which so endears them to general audience. They know what they are, whereas the DC films think that they are some kind of treatise on the human condition and coming away looking ludicrous for that. But lets not turn this into a Marvel vs DC thing.

The kind of performances that Hemsworth and RDJ are doing are nothing if not skillful. Its acting where they access the deepest recesses of their natural charm and general bonhomie and it is brought to bear in scripts which allow them to fully express themselves. Marvel heroes also get angry and sad and hung up but they also get happy and amused and excited are wonderfully humane. The joie de vivre is both infectious and life affirming.

I think Cavill can be all this too. If he is given the opportunity. But if he's told by the script to just skulk and mope, he won't be able to fully express himself.
Then what exactly are you trying to do? :oldrazz:

From what I can see, the only DC films that are a treatise of the human condition are the Nolan Batman films. (MOS halfheartedly tried, but I don't include it.) And I think the general audience liked those just fine, given that even BB (the lowest grossing of the lot) outgrossed Cap, Thor, and Hulk domestically, even unadjusted for inflation.

They're just different things. The general audience is perfectly capable of liking both styles. But I think the standard is more strict for a Nolan-esque serious superhero film. If a fun film is weak, hey, it's still fun. If a serious film is weak, then it's just a slog.
 
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I don't think Cavill is a great actor but I thought he did an excellent job on MOS. Most importantly, I believed him as Kal-El/Superman. He was asked to play the role without having the Daily Planet Clark Kent persona to fall back on. Instead, he had to rely on the lonely, introspective Clark.

As for charisma, Marvel seems to embrace the big personalities of their comic book characters. Their superheroes are less tone down, more flamboyant, and thus appear more charismatic.
 
@ slumcat and of course all pals from the hype :D

tumblr_mvpg9luBWx1smugg3o1_1280.jpg


in this scene for example we see the Superman from the comics that IMO has never been on screen before; "BADASS", FEARLESS, Seeing Superman as the boss as in the comics and in that aspect my friends Cavill nailed it and own it :cwink:

I thought there were hints of that in Reeve. "Care to step outside, gentlemen?"

But Superman as a fully realized warrior has yet to have been captured on film.
 
Henry has plenty of charisma. It's just that people think that making jokes all the time=charisma and that no jokes=no charisma. And I'll never understand how people think RDJ is a great actor. He has his one shtick that he plays over and over. And to be honest, I think that shtick is just him playing himself. His real-life interviews could be a Tony Stark scene.
 
charisma is an innate thing. doesn't have anything to do with wit, it's about magnetism that someone's presence has. cavill has that in spades cause he's ridiculously good looking apart from seaming to be quite intelligent.
 
I remember Cavill saying he wouldn't do SW7 if the script sucked.

The top comment to that video was

You did MOS, Cavill.
 
I remember Cavill saying he wouldn't do SW7 if the script sucked.

The top comment to that video was
Lol! Not only that, he said in nearly every interview that MOS was the greatest screenplay he had ever read!

Charisma has nothing at all to do with jokes. I think the people who mistake other people's complaints mistake charisma itself! A great recent example I can give is Edgar Ramirez in Olivier Assayas' Carlos. Not a joke in sight yet a supremely charismatic and overpowering portrayal.

I think charisma to a large extent can be equated to confidence or conviction or even 'peace with oneself'.

I thought there were hints of that in Reeve. "Care to step outside, gentlemen?"

But Superman as a fully realized warrior has yet to have been captured on film.
Oh Reeve had charisma to burn and was also supremely badass. The best superhero performance IMHO.

From what I can see, the only DC films that are a treatise of the human condition are the Nolan Batman films. (MOS halfheartedly tried, but I don't include it.)
I think the Nolan films, apart from TDK perhaps, are just ludicrous and bad films. TDKR is Green Lantern level bad for me. And their attempts at seriousness are such an eye roll for me. I think 2 out of these 3 films are really really misbegotten films. But that's a different conversation.

I think the only superhero film that managed some kind of meaningful subtext is the beyond brilliant The Incredibles. Thar to me is THE shining beacon to which all superhero movies should aspire too. It is also the cleverest superhero film ever made and perhaps rightly the only the superhero film ever to get a Screenplay Oscar nomination.
 
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Lol! Not only that, he said in nearly every interview that MOS was the greatest screenplay he had ever read!

Plus, he'd definitely do Star Wars! He would never get offered it, but he would most definitely take a shot at it. Plus, SW7's script is probably like 10x better than MOS'.
 
Plus, he'd definitely do Star Wars! He would never get offered it, but he would most definitely take a shot at it. Plus, SW7's script is probably like 10x better than MOS'.
Michael "Toy Story 3" Arndt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Goyer
 
Henry has plenty of charisma. It's just that people think that making jokes all the time=charisma and that no jokes=no charisma. And I'll never understand how people think RDJ is a great actor. He has his one shtick that he plays over and over. And to be honest, I think that shtick is just him playing himself. His real-life interviews could be a Tony Stark scene.

RDJ being a good actor goes beyond just being Ironman.
 
I never realized why people have to tear down one person to defend another. Cavill is a good actor, but give credit where credit is due. RDJ is the perfect Iron Man, and its undeniable that his charisma is unmatched. It doesn't take anything away from Cavill, it's just two different personalities...
 
MOS was probably the best script Cavill ever read. This is Cavill. Not Crowe or Amy Adams. I don't think any great scripts have pass through his hands.
 
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