BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Flint Marko]

I cant remember every detail. I only seen the film once and didn't think that much of it, and while I still find it fun discussing certain aspects of it, I don't care to analyse it that much. I could have sworn that other people died, rather than just terrorists. If it was just terrorists like you are saying, then it is pretty silly that people would be annoyed at Superman.

Yeah, that's why I don't understand why there is a senate hearing. I'm not sure who dies (surely it isn't just the separatists) and why Superman would be blamed. Again, all he did was save an American.
From what I've gathered, I think that he dethroned the rebels/separatists and then the local government came into the villages afterwards and wreaked havoc. That's what the woman was saying in the senate hearing. That's why Superman was being held accountable; he left a power vacuum that cost the lives of the local people.
If that's the case then it lends credence to my theory that Superman most certainly killed the guy he pushed through numerous walls at 100+ mph. Later when talking to Lois he doesn't say that he didn't kill anyone, he says "I didn't kill those people". Personally I think he's directly referencing the villagers that would have been killed after he left because those are the only lives people would be up in arms over.

They weren't terrorists. They were rebels/separatists. Otherwise Lois wouldn't have gone there to interview them.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

 

[king666]

thats what upsets me is that MOS ended with this shot

so why did we have to go 10 steps back and make him as gloomy as he was in the beginning of MOS in BVS??

Really. I didn't like MOS but I loved the Superman setup by the end of it. The sequel could've been soooo cool. They ****ed it up in BvS.

(...though Cavill is still perfect for Superman)

 

[Rapunzel]

See, the thing is....I don't think it was the local government that killed the villagers. I think it was Lex's men....to make it look like Supes' intervention screwed things up. Either that, or the woman testifying is lying and paid off by Lex and nobody in the village actually died. That village lady is awfully angry towards Supes and makes declarations that don't seem authentic with her situation. I think it's very possible bribery is afoot.

 

[Flint Marko]

See, the thing is....I don't think it was the local government that killed the villagers. I think it was Lex's men....to make it look like Supes' intervention screwed things up. Either that, or the woman testifying is lying and paid off by Lex and nobody in the village actually died. That village lady is awfully angry towards Supes and makes declarations that don't seem authentic with her situation. I think it's very possible bribery is afoot.

I think you may be on to something here.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I don't know about you guys, but Superman's arc has effected me profoundly in real life. I think a lot of people feel like Bruce Wayne when watching the news. "The powerlessness that turns good men cruel." This film and, in particular Superman, changed my outlook. Maybe it's temporary, but for now I want to believe that "men are still good."

 

[Corko]

Wasn't there pictures of Clark going to jail or something. I hope theres more of him investigating in the extended edition. Should be.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

See, the thing is....I don't think it was the local government that killed the villagers. I think it was Lex's men....to make it look like Supes' intervention screwed things up. Either that, or the woman testifying is lying and paid off by Lex and nobody in the village actually died. That village lady is awfully angry towards Supes and makes declarations that don't seem authentic with her situation. I think it's very possible bribery is afoot.

The "truth" is more convincing than a lie. I think Lex manipulated the witness into believing Superman was responsible for the Nairomi government going in and attacking the villages. **** like that happens in real life all the time without superheroes and megalomaniacs pulling strings from behind the curtain. Sunnis and Shias, Hutus and Tutsis, Israelis and Palestinians etc. I can keep going. Nobody's wrong in those situations other than poverty or anger or both.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

They really only let Clark show joy and charm when he was with Lois. It was nice to see, but shouldn't be his only happiness in life.

I'd have loved to see him interacting with other members of the DP, say Steve Lombard or Jenny. Having friends and a stable life, enjoying his job, going to after work drinks, watching football, after so long being itinerant and lonely. More than just Lois making him happy. And I do fear that 'Lois as his only happiness in life' will be used to qualify an 'Injustice' plot line - especially as Snyder's idea of 'having fun with a character' is having Jimmy Olsen not even named but shot in the head, then going unmentioned and unmourned by his colleagues. Hilarious! /s

I'm hanging on to the idea that Flash has changed things, and Bruce and Diana assembling the Justice League will prevent that future.

I'm also hopeful because James Wan and Patty Jenkins have gone out of their way to stress that their films will be less serious. One thing WB must take from the reviews/box office is that grimdark just does not work for both the GA and a lot of fans.

 

[STARMAN]

I get the sense that Snyder doesn't have much interest in Clark Kent. He seems consumed by the godlike superhero or misunderstood alien angle. He's so consumed with these big ideas and mythology he won't focus on the Daily Planet, Clark Kent, Jimmy Olsen and the small but more personal elements of the mythos.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Ugh... Snyder can't be that stupid. He just can't. It has to be obvious, even to him, that doing that would kill the DCEU. I can't see WB signing off on it. I have to believe they have more common sense.

Unless we get something somewhere in these next few movies that negates the flash warning, then its coming. If Snyder gets removed I'll breathe a little easier, but DC and WB seem to have little problem so far in mucking up Supes trying to make him "edgier".

He can and he will (possibly). I could totally see him doing something like that and calling it awesome. It fits his pattern with superman perfectly.

Yep. Also dead Lois means him and WW could hook up which I think is whats going on in the comics.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

I get the sense that Snyder doesn't have much interest in Clark Kent. He seems consumed by the godlike superhero or misunderstood alien angle. He's so consumed with these big ideas and mythology he won't focus on the Daily Planet, Clark Kent, Jimmy Olsen and the small but more personal elements of the mythos.

Agreed. I've seen a lot of comparisons on this board between Snyder's vision of Superman to his Dr Manhattan and I think that's spot-on. In the MoS trailer when I saw him hovering over the base where Lois was being held I thought "Oh very Dr Manhattan" and I thought the same thing in the BvS trailer when he's seen hovering over the flooded houses with the 'S' symbol painted on one of the roofs. I think this is completely wrong - Superman and Dr Manhattan are fundamentally different characters and The 'Manhattanisation' of Superman is something I really don't like.

 

[Plaidchuck]

Yeah lane has been a persona non grata in the new 52, I am frankly surprised by how much of a role she has had in these two movies.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Y
From what I've gathered, I think that he dethroned the rebels/separatists and then the local government came into the villages afterwards and wreaked havoc. That's what the woman was saying in the senate hearing. That's why Superman was being held accountable; he left a power vacuum that cost the lives of the local people.
If that's the case then it lends credence to my theory that Superman most certainly killed the guy he pushed through numerous walls at 100+ mph. Later when talking to Lois he doesn't say that he didn't kill anyone, he says "I didn't kill those people". Personally I think he's directly referencing the villagers that would have been killed after he left because those are the only lives people would be up in arms over.

After two viewings this is how I took things also, I agree 100%.

Though it was clear to me on the first viewing that me made that guy hamburger, but lets not get into that again.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

See, the thing is....I don't think it was the local government that killed the villagers. I think it was Lex's men....to make it look like Supes' intervention screwed things up. Either that, or the woman testifying is lying and paid off by Lex and nobody in the village actually died. That village lady is awfully angry towards Supes and makes declarations that don't seem authentic with her situation. I think it's very possible bribery is afoot.

I'd be surprised if even the extended cut clears this up, but in the end it'd be pointless anyway.

It shouldve been that Superman removes the warlord and the region descends into chaos and people question how much Superman should take into his own decision making. Lex manipulates Scooter and then the hearings get blown up anyhow. What makes the Africa thing murky is trying to make it ALL a Lex manipulation when it would've played out better and clearer if he hadn't have been behind the africa events.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

Unless we get something somewhere in these next few movies that negates the flash warning, then its coming. If Snyder gets removed I'll breathe a little easier, but DC and WB seem to have little problem so far in mucking up Supes trying to make him "edgier".

Also dead Lois means him and WW could hook up which I think is whats going on in the comics.

Although an avid player of the 'Injustice' mobile game, I didn't like the comics and gave up. I also hate Superman/Wonder Woman with the fire of a thousand suns and think it diminishes both of their characters, and as plaidchuck said, Lois has been persona non grata - and I would add thrown under the bus - in the New 52.

I've been so pleased that (so far) the films haven't gone that way, and the thought that they might...

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

yeah I havent read comics for years, but when I heard that they paired them up I was like

 

[HELLilac]

And I do fear that 'Lois as his only happiness in life' will be used to qualify an 'Injustice' plot line - especially as Snyder's idea of 'having fun with a character' is having Jimmy Olsen not even named but shot in the head, then going unmentioned and unmourned by his colleagues. Hilarious! /s

I'm hanging on to the idea that Flash has changed things, and Bruce and Diana assembling the Justice League will prevent that future..

I hope so..

But if that's the case why'd Snyder bother forcing that scene to the movie that was already too long? If it wasn't that relevant to a plot and didn't foretold the future storyline why wouldn't he left it in the cutting room floor like the other parts of the movie?

The fact that of all the scenes that got chopped off to meet the required runtime, Snyder left the dream sequences intact even thought they had little to do with any main plots in BvS is very telling.

I hope I'm just being too paranoid. Injustice is just interesting as an elseworld tale and that's it.

 

[Predator jp]

i hope we will see this Superman in JL.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

You guys complaining about the New 52, Superman, Lois Lane, and Wonder Woman should read this. It's "bringing" Superman back.

http://batman-news.com/2016/02/25/superman-lois-and-clark-5-review/

 

[Logan0327]

i bet you tons of lois got cut from theatrical version

not in movie

 

[Greens]

That scene with the Superman pictures hanging from the ceiling looks crazy.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

I hope so..

But if that's the case why'd Snyder bother forcing that scene to the movie that was already too long? If it wasn't that relevant to a plot and didn't foretold the future storyline why wouldn't he left it in the cutting room floor like the other parts of the movie?

Because imo Zack Snyder is stuck in the mentality of an edgy 13 year old, and he'll sacrifice plot coherence for anything that looks 'cool'. See my earlier point about him thinking having Jimmy Olsen's brains blown out would be 'a fun thing to do with the character'. That's why WB were insane to let him go unchecked and they're paying for it with the terrible reviews and underwhelming box office returns.

You guys complaining about the New 52, Superman, Lois Lane, and Wonder Woman should read this. It's "bringing" Superman back.

http://batman-news.com/2016/02/25/superman-lois-and-clark-5-review/

I'm aware of this and glad that Jurgens is coming back

 

[Plaidchuck]

Seems like those Lois seems may be her investigating Mcnairys character and his connection with Lex.

 

[The Guard]

I've asked this question about 5 or 6 times now and have yet to get an answer: who died in the Africa sequence? Just the terrorists? Why would anyone get up in arms over terrorists being shot after Superman saved an American? What was that African woman saying in the senate hearing? I'm genuinely curious, I've seen the movie twice now and on both occasions this has escaped me.

Luthor's plan is designed to make it look like Superman, via reckless intervention, sparked an international incident.

The people Lois is interviewing are rebels who are keeping the villagers safe from the government.

All the villagers know is that when Superman arrived, there was a firefight, and their rebel protectors ended up dead. That allowed the government to invade.

 

[HELLilac]

Because imo Zack Snyder is stuck in the mentality of an edgy 13 year old, and he'll sacrifice plot coherence for anything that looks 'cool'. See my earlier point about him thinking having Jimmy Olsen's brains blown out would be 'a fun thing to do with the character'. That's why WB were insane to let him go unchecked and they're paying for it with the terrible reviews and underwhelming box office returns.

You're right, he did approach his movie in a kiddo way. Things happen in his movies because they either looked "cool" to him or he thought it'd be "fun" to do so. The way Pa Kent died is a good example of that.