BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Spider-Fan]

Snyder's superman is somewhere between Dr.Manhattan and Superman.

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine about this very thing. Superman in Dawn of Justice especially was very Dr. Manhattan, even down to the approach of what does "God" do with that kind of power and should he be feared. The sort of wooden and distant way he is played really reminds me of Dr. Manhattan, also.

 

[The Guard]

Edit.

 

[Tobias]

Not exactly true is it? People can take swipes at Donner's Superman till they're blue in the face, but it was far more successful than Snyder's.

ITA. To be clear I am referencing S:TM. As some are wont to point out Supes 3 and 4 were bad films. I agree. Though to me the flying scene over the Grand Canyon in 3, done almost 40 years ago now, remains to this day one of the best Superman flying shots yet done.

It is what it is.

Reeve's Superman had significantly more lines in S:TM than Cavill's Superman has had in MOS and BvS.

Reeve's Superman got to play a whole gamut of emotions that Cavill's Superman has not been given the chance to do.

Reeve's Superman had so many unforgettable on-screen moments, Cavill's Superman not so.

When I think of Reeve as Superman I feel uplifted, when I think of what Cavill has had to play I feel pulled down.

Reeve's Superman was about hope, possibilities and a bright future. Something that has universal appeal.

Which version do you think Cavill would most want to play? No one can say but Cavill.

Which version is going to spark interest? For me it is the Donner/Reeve version and I think that is true for most.

 

[Loki882]

This movie also feels tonally jarring with the end of MOS (did Snyder even bother to rewatch his own film before making this one)? There it ends with:

-A relatively lighthearted scene with the general and Not Star Sapphire, with the implication that they're going to form at least a respectful working relationship moving forward.

-Him walking into the Daily Planet as Clark Kent, smiling and being more optimistic with the whole wink wink nudge nudge thing with Lois.

-The "welcome to the planet" line.

-Etc.

Really that ending makes this movie feel even more wonky than it already does.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

And it completely demolishes this three movie arc, can't you guys just have some patience thing his defenders keep pushing

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Just wait guys, after three movies we'll finally join him in the sun. Just in time for Snyder to go all injustice.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Just wait guys, after three movies we'll finally join him in the sun. Just in time for Snyder to go all injustice.

Synder had it's chance!

 

[Tobias]

Just wait guys, after three movies we'll finally join him in the sun. Just in time for Snyder to go all injustice.

No, I don't think you have to worry about Injustice Gods at this point.

WB just announced "unnamed" releases in October 2018 and in 2019.

Likely a Batman solo and an SS sequel. That is the betting.

JL will IMO be pushed back to the end of phase 1. 2019. It will be a totally different animal is my guess from what Snyder had planned.

Its all problematic for Cavill if JL is pushed back several years, but better it be done right. IMO.

 

[Flint Marko]

The sort of wooden and distant way he is played really reminds me of Dr. Manhattan, also.

He's been wooden and distant since Man of Steel, but I'm not sure if that's by design.

 

[Spider-Fan]

He's been wooden and distant since Man of Steel, but I'm not sure if that's by design.

I think it definitely is. I think Snyder wants him to be more of a symbol than a true character. I've seen Cavill have wit in other movies and more, so I definitely think this is a director's choice.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think it definitely is. I think Snyder wants him to be more of a symbol than a true character. I've seen Cavill have wit in other movies and more, so I definitely think this is a director's choice.

You're right in that Cavill has a lot of charisma that isn't on display but I just can't imagine why a director would want to intentionally disconnect the audience from the protagonist. Seems like you're just intentionally shooting yourself in the foot if you don't make your main character likable. My personal theory is that Superman is just a tough character to write so they "solve" that problem by barely giving him anything to do.

 

[Tobias]

You're right in that Cavill has a lot of charisma that isn't on display but I just can't imagine why a director would want to intentionally disconnect the audience from the protagonist. Seems like you're just intentionally shooting yourself in the foot if you don't make your main character likable. My personal theory is that Superman is just a tough character to write so they "solve" that problem by barely giving him anything to do.

I disagree that Superman is tough to write. Though even Cavill echoes that mantra.

No, if Cap can be so well written to engage the current generation then Superman can too. IMO.

It has not been tried either in SR or MOS or BvS.

All mopey, self-centered portrayals - characterizations. IMO.

This is not rocket science. SR did not work, MOS did not work - if nothing else, wouldn't you try something different for the 3rd time at plate?

 

[Tra-El]

No, I don't think you have to worry about Injustice Gods at this point.

WB just announced "unnamed" releases in October 2018 and in 2019.

Likely a Batman solo and an SS sequel. That is the betting.

JL will IMO be pushed back to the end of phase 1. 2019. It will be a totally different animal is my guess from what Snyder had planned.

Its all problematic for Cavill if JL is pushed back several years, but better it be done right. IMO.

Tobias, very rarely do I agree with you (lol) but without any of the typical fan influence, I heard about the DC slate while out and about. My first 2 thoughts were the Batman and the Suicide Squad sequel.

Common sense tells us the Batman and Super solo, but for us Superman fans, we just KNOW it's way too good to be true.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Tobias, very rarely do I agree with you (lol) but without any of the typical fan influence, I heard about the DC slate while out and about. My first 2 thoughts were the Batman and the Suicide Squad sequel.

Common sense tells us the Batman and Super solo, but for us Superman fans, we just KNOW it's way too good to be true.

I'll punch Kevin Tsujihara in the mouth if it's really SS sequel instead of Superman. Cavill will be bald and Adams will be saggy until we see another Superman movie.

 

[Flint Marko]

I disagree that Superman is tough to write. Though even Cavill echoes that mantra.

No, if Cap can be so well written to engage the current generation then Superman can too. IMO.

It has not been tried either in SR or MOS or BvS.

All mopey, self-centered portrayals - characterizations. IMO.

This is not rocket science. SR did not work, MOS did not work - if nothing else wouldn't you try something different for the 3rd time at plate?

Cap is so well-written because, frankly, the character is in better hands.

 

[Skrilla31]

I don't see how exactly Superman is so tough to write for when he is basically the original superhero and the blueprint for doing him successfully has already been laid out over 75 years in various forms of media.

It boggles the mind, seriously.

 

[Light]

You're right in that Cavill has a lot of charisma that isn't on display but I just can't imagine why a director would want to intentionally disconnect the audience from the protagonist. Seems like you're just intentionally shooting yourself in the foot if you don't make your main character likable. My personal theory is that Superman is just a tough character to write so they "solve" that problem by barely giving him anything to do.

We are in a age where Thor has had two movies and is on his Third and were Ant freaking man had a succeful movie and Doctor Strange is getting a movie but you want to say maybe Superman is a tough character to write. Maybe it's a case of incapable writers trying to write a character they have no understanding for.

 

[STARMAN]

Superman isn't tough to write. But they keep making the mistake of writing for a God or misunderstood alien. They made it more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[Flint Marko]

We are in a age where Thor has had two movies and is on his Third and were Ant freaking man had a succeful movie and Doctor Strange is getting a movie but you want to say maybe Superman is a tough character to write. Maybe it's a case of incapable writers trying to write a character they have no understanding for.

Superman is a tough character to write, I'm not making any excuses, I'm echoing something that numerous comic creators and film makers have said for years. I think a capable writer can do it, it's certainly not an impossible task and Marvel has adapted any and all kinds of characters and made it look easy, but it's something that Snyder and co. haven't been able to do in two movies. My point is, they aren't the people for the job.

 

[Light]

Superman is a tough character to write, I'm not making any excuses, I'm echoing something that numerous comic creators and film makers have said for years. I think a capable writer can do it, it's certainly not an impossible task and Marvel has adapted any and all kinds of characters and made it look easy, but it's something that Snyder and co. haven't been able to do in two movies. My point is, they aren't the people for the job.

What's hard about writing for someone with a rich history spanning almost a century? A lot of writers complain about him being difficult because of his powers but a talented individual can make that work.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Superman is a tough character to write, I'm not making any excuses, I'm echoing something that numerous comic creators and film makers have said for years. I think a capable writer can do it, it's certainly not an impossible task and Marvel has adapted any and all kinds of characters and made it look easy, but it's something that Snyder and co. haven't been able to do in two movies. My point is, they aren't the people for the job.

To tell a successful Superman story it's required that you spend time with Clark Kent. He's the blue collar everyman that connects us to Superman. In a 2 hour movie it's hard to balance that with action packed set pieces. Too much Clark and your movie gets boring; too little Clark and you have an alien with god-like powers doing action movie **** that you don't care about because you can't connect with him. The key to writing Superman successfully is blurring the line between the Super and the Man. Showing Clark doing mundane things with his powers is just one example.

 

[Flint Marko]

What's hard about writing for someone with a rich history spanning almost a century? A lot of writers complain about him being difficult because of his powers but a talented individual can make that work.

We're straying very far away from my original point. We can debate how tough the character is/is not to write, I've heard dozens of people in the industry say he is for a variety of reasons, but my basic point is that Snyder and co. aren't the ones to make it work.

 

[Skrilla31]

What's hard about writing for someone with a rich history spanning almost a century? A lot of writers complain about him being difficult because of his powers but a talented individual can make that work.

This is what I don't understand, the thrill is in seeing Superman use these enormous powers.

I don't remember watching Superman cartoons as a kid and thinking, "Hey this guy is too strong! This is terrible!"

 

[Light]

We're straying very far away from my original point. We can debate how tough the character is/is not to write, I've heard dozens of people in the industry say he is for a variety of reasons, but my basic point is that Snyder and co. aren't the ones to make it work.

And that I definitely agree with you on.

 

[Tobias]

What's hard about writing for someone with a rich history spanning almost a century? A lot of writers complain about him being difficult because of his powers but a talented individual can make that work.

Exactly! If WB can't figure out how to write new stories then go to their (DC's) treasure trove of stories and have a film writer adapt one of the myriad.... think 'Roads Not Taken' or 'Red Son' or ... the list goes on. It ain't that hard. IMO.