Henry Cavill Out as Superman Amid Warner Bros.' DC Universe Shake-Up

[2kt09]

I don't really get why introducing any of the characters you mentioned Wally West, J'ohnn, and Hawkgirl would be difficult at all

myopic purview

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah you can. It's easy. Just have Wally be the Flash of this universe with Barry as the Flash of another unverse, or not have Barry at all. Same with John Stewart or Kyle Rayner as GL, you don't need Hal for them to come in. The only people that will care are some nerds and that doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. And even us nerds will get over it if the movie is good

I don't really get why introducing any of the characters you mentioned Wally West, J'ohnn, and Hawkgirl would be difficult at all

. . .because Wally West's whole origin and premise is "I am the Flash's kid nephew, who became his sidekick and eventually took on his legacy"? Do I. . . really need to explain why this is important?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The problem with Hal Jordan is. . . like most DC silver age characters, he's kind of a bland empty cipher. Square jawed and heroic only in the most generic sense, with very little actual depth to his character. Which worked just fine. . . when he was used as the straight man interacting with other, more complex characters. Or it could have worked with him being dead, and used by other living characters as an icon and symbol ( see also: Barry Allen post Crisis ).

And then Geoff Johns brought him back to life, gave him back the role, and then gave him no real depth or character beyond "that perfect, best Green Lantern", which only ever worked as something other characters played off against. As a living, active character who is used as the center of the story, it just made him come off as this kind of arrogant, jerkish Gary Stu. Why is he the best? Because the narrator says so, more or less. Which is why Geoff Johns is a good writer who direly needs editors willing and able to keep him more fanboy inclinations in check.

Which is a problem, because as much as I like nearly every other Green Lantern better as a character, in terms of creating a self-reliant origin movie? Hal Jordan has the best premise and origin. Most of the others are too defined by their relationship to the GL Corps ( and human GLs ) as existing things, and even John Stewart? I like John Stewart, but "Test pilot" makes a stronger, easier thematic connection to Space Police than "Ex-Marine". So, in my opinion, even without Johns, whoever eventually tries to make a GL movie has the unenviable task of essentially building Hal Jordan from scratch starting from the one sentence premise and not much else.

Hal is bland. But that’s what makes him work in a sci-fi story. The world is what is exciting and interesting. The “Luke” of the story is meant to be in awe like us. Even when he eventually becomes the one it feels earned cause of where they started.

DC messed up with Reynolds trying to graph his personality onto Hal to compared to Downey. Sinestro, Oa, the guardians, etc should be the stars of the movie.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I don't agree that Hal is bland and that the world around him is what's fascinating. He's more Han Solo or Captain Kirk than Luke Skywalker. A cocky, fearless womanizer but also very heroic and selfless and isn't afraid to buck the system when he has to. They sort of tried to portray that with Reynolds but missed the mark because, like you said, they tried to graph his typical movie persona onto the character in an effort to ape the Iron Man formula and it didn't work.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Hal is bland. But that’s what makes him work in a sci-fi story.

Hal is anything but bland. It's easier to make an argument that he's been a little too gratuitously edgy at times. At various points in his history, he's driven drunk and spent time in jail, dated an alien who looked like a teen-ager, destroyed his own Corps, made a construct of a monster to get out of a date, beat the snot out of most of Earth's heroes including Superman, relit the Sun, and killed a former Guardian of the Universe. Some of these stories worked well, but there have been times that he's been such a jerk that he's flirted with the anti-hero line.

 

[Batmannerism]

Hal is anything but bland. It's easier to make an argument that he's been a little too gratuitously edgy at times. At various points in his history, he's driven drunk and spent time in jail, dated an alien who looked like a teen-ager, destroyed his own Corps, made a construct of a monster to get out of a date, beat the snot out of most of Earth's heroes including Superman, relit the Sun, and killed a former Guardian of the Universe. Some of these stories worked well, but there have been times that he's been such a jerk that he's flirted with the anti-hero line.

One look at the weird, wild and wonderful history of Hal Jordan and it's tough to call him bland.

On that note I don't think you can call Parallax an anti hero, after his murder spree - villain is the correct word.

Jordan has also died and come back to life, been a prisoner of war, and worked directly for God as the Spectre.

He's really done it all ! He's giving Superman a run for his money as the Chuck Norris of DC characters. Imagine trying to cram that into a movie or two....


But the real mystery is why this is being discussed at all in a thread about Henry Cavill's career options. Unless we rename this thread " Hal Jordan Facts" of course.

 

[Lantern Venom]

One look at the weird, wild and wonderful history of Hal Jordan and it's tough to call him bland.

On that note I don't think you can call Parallax an anti hero, after his murder spree - villain is the correct word.

Jordan has also died and come back to life, been a prisoner of war, and worked directly for God as the Spectre.

He's really done it all ! He's giving Superman a run for his money as the Chuck Norris of DC characters. Imagine trying to cram that into a movie or two....


But the real mystery is why this is being discussed at all in a thread about Henry Cavill's career options. Unless we rename this thread " Hal Jordan Facts" of course.

The Parallax situation is murky now since Geoff Johns retconned it. Marz and Banks originally intended the situation to be Jordan's actual point of view (hence the name "Parallax"), but Johns later stated that Jordan was "never" Parallax, but that the entity was controlling Jordan. So was Hal every truly a villain? You'll get different answers from fans.

As for why we're talking about this in the Cav-El thread, it's more interesting than the current conflicting reports about Superman's future at WB. It feels like we haven't heard anything substantial for a year and a half.

 

[Batmannerism]

As for why we're talking about this in the Cav-El thread, it's more interesting than the current conflicting reports about Superman's future at WB. It feels like we haven't heard anything substantial for a year and a half.

Fair point.

Hal Jordan facts:

Hal Jordan's willpower is so strong he can sit through an entire season of Sex in the City without looking bored....

Hal Jordan's pee is green because he's immune to the yellow impurity....

 

[The Batman]

If Hal is dull, so is any human GL that isn't Guy, Kyle, and maybe Jessica.

 

[WhoMani]

I like Hal but I'm a little annoyed that Johns retconned Paralax and brought Hal Jordan (and Barry Allen) back to life just because as a child he loved the Silver age. Kyle Rayner is my fav GL. But I do agree that Hal is anything but bland and I do appreciate that he has flaws.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I like Hal but I'm a little annoyed that Johns retconned Paralax and brought Hal Jordan (and Barry Allen) back to life just because as a child he loved the Silver age. Kyle Rayner is my fav GL. But I do agree that Hal is anything but bland and I do appreciate that he has flaws.

I like you, WhoMani.

 

[WhoMani]

I like you, WhoMani.

Thank you

 

[Deck Rickard]

I like Kyle but I preferred him in his earliest appearances, where he didn’t know what the hell he was doing and kinda looked at being GL as a thrill ride. Obviously the character couldn’t stay that was forever; he had to mature. But unfortunately I feel like once he did, he came off like Hal-lite.

 

[The Batman]

^ I agree with everything you said. Kyle pretty much outgrew one of the main things that made him stand out in the first place. It's one of the reasons why I'm glad they brought Hal back.

That, and the whole Parallax storyline was a bad idea in the first place.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I have mixed feelings about Parallax. At a time when DC was shaking things up for all its core characters, it was a pretty ballsy move. They killed Superman, but obviously he was going to come back. They “broke” Batman, because they had to find a way for him to eventually return; they couldn’t kill him and bring him back to life because that would remove the realistic edge they always at least attempted to apply to the Batman series. But with GL, they did something that couldn’t so easily be undone. They turned him into a villain. And while it certainly angered Hal fans, it reignited interest in GL.

Of course, they eventually realized that taking such a drastic step meant that attempts to redeem Hal (Final Night, turning him into the Spectre) always fell short of returning him to true “hero” status, so they decided to retcon the whole thing. And while it does feel like a cop out, as a Hal fan, I didn’t mind it. And Rebirth was one of my favorite GL stories of all time; the artwork is gorgeous and Hal’s return was amazingly handled.

 

[WhoMani]

Despite me wishing that Hal never returned, the Green Lantern: Rebirth is a well written comic (I still don't like the retcon) and the GL run under Geoff Johns was awesome to read. Hal arguably had the better story materials than Guy, John and Kyle.

 

[Boy Scout]

As someone who has no emotional connection to Hal Jordan whatsoever, I think it would’ve been better for the Parallax story to play out as it was originally written. It makes for a stronger story for him to have gone legitimately insane. But I understand why fans of him have a problem with it and I understand the retcon.

 

[Rorschach2012]

As someone who has no emotional connection to Hal Jordan whatsoever, I think it would’ve been better for the Parallax story to play out as it was originally written. It makes for a stronger story for him to have gone legitimately insane. But I understand why fans of him have a problem with it and I understand the retcon.

I think the arc works best for him to come full circle. He’s literally the Anakin Skywalker of the DCU.

 

[The Batman]

Hal Jordan ain't Anakin Skywalker. Hal Jordan as Parallax is like taking Luke Skywalker and suddenly making him evil. It's a good thing the story was retconned, because it never should've happened in the first place.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, I mean the whole point of Anakin is that he succumbed to the Dark Side and then found his way back to the light again and died a hero. Hal was intended as a hero from the get-go and the only reason they made him a villain was to boost sales. Like I said before, I think it was a bold move and there are aspects of the story that I like but I'm still glad they retconned it.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Shazam reviews/reactions are coming out now, including leaks. A Superman cameo has been rumored for a while.

Anyone wondering if Superman does/does not make a cameo can see below

Spoiler

Superman appears in a post credits scene, but only from neck down, no Cavill

 

[Tg11]

Shazam reviews/reactions are coming out now, including leaks. A Superman cameo has been rumored for a while.

Anyone wondering if Superman does/does not make a cameo can see below

Spoiler

Superman appears in a post credits scene, but only from neck down, no Cavill

Spoiler

Then perhaps DC is looking for a new Superman hence why he isn't seen...just speculating on my part

 

[Deck Rickard]

Shazam reviews/reactions are coming out now, including leaks. A Superman cameo has been rumored for a while.

Anyone wondering if Superman does/does not make a cameo can see below

Spoiler

Superman appears in a post credits scene, but only from neck down, no Cavill

Spoiler

That sounds like an awkward cameo, lol. Then again, I’d rather Superman be faceless than having the mouth from hell like he did in Justice League, lol.

 

[Flint Marko]

Tag spoilers, folks. Geez

 

[FunkMiller]

Shazam reviews/reactions are coming out now, including leaks. A Superman cameo has been rumored for a while.

Anyone wondering if Superman does/does not make a cameo can see below

Spoiler

Superman appears in a post credits scene, but only from neck down, no Cavill

Not surprised in the slightest.