Hickman's "Avengers"

[JewishHobbit]

You're imagining things.

 

[RockSP]

The money I wasted on those comics being back in my pocket...?

 

[runawayboulder]

And that explains why it never caught my eye, or apparently a bunch of eyes since it wasn't selling that great prior to Bendis. Interpersonal relationships, fun, and humor screw up a comic? Maybe it was just a crappy comic to begin with and you're nostalgic about it

That's not true at all. Go look it up.

 

[CConn]

When I said jovial and lighter I didn't mean so much comedic as I meant a sense of charm, which this book just lacks in my opinion.

I didn't get a sense of any charm in Bendis' run.

Even the parts of it I liked a lot, I wouldn't call charming.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It seemed to be controlling her personality for a few secs there ..akin to possession.

Yeah, that does appear to be a new wrinkle with this version of Captain Universe. That's why I'm so interested in learning more about her in the coming issues. She seems more in tune with the concept of Captain Universe as an extension of Eternity that hasn't really been touched on much before.

And that explains why it never caught my eye, or apparently a bunch of eyes since it wasn't selling that great prior to Bendis. Interpersonal relationships, fun, and humor screw up a comic? Maybe it was just a crappy comic to begin with and you're nostalgic about it

It was selling very well for decades under this style. It started selling poorly in the early '00s because Chuck Austen got ahold of it.

Also, Bendis isn't the first person to do interpersonal relationships in the Avengers. Read some of Avengers: West Coast. It was overflowing with personal subplots and relationship drama without sacrificing the huge, epic tone befitting the premier super-team of the Marvel universe.

I get that you're tired of seeing people hate on Bendis, but don't become the counterpoint to that, hating on everything that isn't Bendis even though you've read next to none of it. You're better than that.

 

[runawayboulder]

I really wasn't even hating on Bendis (this time). My point was that the fans that came on under Bendis don't realize that his Avengers were basically a departure from what had been done for 40 years prior. Now they think the Avengers is lame without him but what Hickman is bringing to the table is a return to form for what the franchise has always been about.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Bendis' Avengers really are Bendis' Avengers. Although, granted, Hickman's Avengers aren't exactly the classic model of the Avengers either. Last time we really had that was Slott's Mighty Avengers (minus any actual big-name Avengers, of course).

 

[runawayboulder]

Perhaps......but to me it feels much closer to the "classic" model than ever. That says a lot about the *cough* last guy.

 

[Specter313]

AVENGERS #5
JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • ADAM KUBERT (A)
Cover by DUSTIN WEAVER
Variant Cover by ESAD RIBIC
Variant Cover by CARLOS PACHECO
“SUPERGUARDIAN”
• Meet Smasher, the first human member of the IMPERIAL GUARD and an Avenger.
• Watch as the Avengers travel across the galaxy to fight off an invading force.
• Watch as the Imperial Guard are broken on a dead moon.
32 PGS./Rated T ...$3.99

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Perhaps......but to me it feels much closer to the "classic" model than ever. That says a lot about the *cough* last guy.

Oh, the scope is definitely closer, if not even bigger. But JewHobs has a point as well, in that the interpersonal stuff is all but gone. There was a better balance in the really great classic Avengers runs. Granted, Hickman started his FF run off the same way and then gave us some of the most emotionally charged stories I can remember, especially with Reed, so, as with all things Hickman, I'm giving him time to really build up steam on Avengers.

New Avengers, on the other hand, is off to a pretty excellent start right from the get-go. I was very impressed, especially since I planned on skipping it entirely.

 

[runawayboulder]

He's also doing a ton of interpersonal stuff in New Avengers, which might make it the superior of the two in the long run. Perhaps that's why he's not concentrating on relationships in Avengers since he has the two books to play with.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But different characters with different relationships in each. Ironically, the most interpersonal stuff he's done in Avengers so far is between Tony and Cap... both of whom are present in New Avengers as well.

 

[JewishHobbit]

It was selling very well for decades under this style. It started selling poorly in the early '00s because Chuck Austen got ahold of it.

His Invaders arc was pretty crappy but I liked his arc with Captain Britain

Also, Bendis isn't the first person to do interpersonal relationships in the Avengers. Read some of Avengers: West Coast. It was overflowing with personal subplots and relationship drama without sacrificing the huge, epic tone befitting the premier super-team of the Marvel universe.

Good, and I'd likely have enjoyed that book as well as long as I liked the characters. I never said Bendis was the first to do it, only that he did it. I didn't understand how lacking such things could somehow benefit the comic. Bendis handled large scale threats and smaller, personal threats as well. I liked that he took on the whole spectrum of the Marvel Universe, yet people constant accuse him of ONLY dealing with ninjas... which over 7 years were only in about 9 or so issues (mostly dealing with one story regarding Echo and Elektra). It's stupid.

I get that you're tired of seeing people hate on Bendis, but don't become the counterpoint to that, hating on everything that isn't Bendis even though you've read next to none of it. You're better than that.

And now you're reading into things. I have nothing against prior Avengers runs. I loved the Proctor story, there are some arcs in the Busiek/Johns run that I'm curious about. I liked Austen's Britain arc. It just wasn't until Bendis that I enjoyed it enough to read it ongoing.

Heck, I very nearly bought New Avengers 1 and 2 after skimming them again. I passed on them to buy Walking Dead vol. 3, but if I drop more titles I might pick up the book. And why? Because I liked what I saw in the interpersonal relationships. I don't even have anything against the main Avengers book. I just can't afford it. The newest issue with Hyperion looked gorgeous though. Loved the art. I might even pick that one up in time.

My mentioning it sucking prior was just me jabbing at boulder's previous post. A bit of a hah hah time

I really wasn't even hating on Bendis (this time). My point was that the fans that came on under Bendis don't realize that his Avengers were basically a departure from what had been done for 40 years prior. Now they think the Avengers is lame without him but what Hickman is bringing to the table is a return to form for what the franchise has always been about.

Post directly prior to my post:

And this is how Bendis screwed up the Avengers. What you're seeing now....what Hickman is doing, it's what guys did before Bendis. Not exactly the same but on the same scale.

I rest my case

 

[THANOSRULES]

I think Hickman stepped up his game with the latest issue...Hyperion is already more interesting than Sentry ever was under Bendis...this Smasher version appears to be slated for upcoming characterization as well. Hickman is taking his hints from past great Avengers tales and really making the B list Avengers likable and important...something Bendis never really did aside from Cage/Jones.

 

[bored]

Why complain that Hickman hasn't focused on personal relationships when he's only had four issues to work with so far? And the first three were an arc meant to showcase his big-and-blasting new Avengers concept. The fourth issue was all a spotlight on Hyperion, and it made me genuinely interested in him for the first time ever. Hickman has already established that he can do these kinds of stories, give him time to lay it out.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm not really complaining that Hickman isn't focusing on personal relationships as much as when Bendis did it it was considered a drag on the book. I do think that going from Bendis' relationship-heavy to Hickman's nearly zero-relationship frst arc was jarring. My skims of the Hyperion issue seemed to be an improvement though. That issue and then these Smasher previews have me more curious about the book.

Depending on budget I might give Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers a shot, provided I don't get too far behind before I can get caught up. Fortunately, I held onto the first issue of Avengers in case I changed my mind. Jury's still out though. I've got my buying down, it just feels inflated due to the Ultron event coming out adding 3 $4 comics a month. I figure if I drop one or two more books then I might make room for Hickman. We'll see.

 

[THANOSRULES]

I'm not really complaining that Hickman isn't focusing on personal relationships as much as when Bendis did it it was considered a drag on the book. I do think that going from Bendis' relationship-heavy to Hickman's nearly zero-relationship frst arc was jarring. My skims of the Hyperion issue seemed to be an improvement though. That issue and then these Smasher previews have me more curious about the book.

Depending on budget I might give Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers a shot, provided I don't get too far behind before I can get caught up. Fortunately, I held onto the first issue of Avengers in case I changed my mind. Jury's still out though. I've got my buying down, it just feels inflated due to the Ultron event coming out adding 3 $4 comics a month. I figure if I drop one or two more books then I might make room for Hickman. We'll see.

Bendis did not do it well..thats why..and really I don't think Bendis realy did much of actually making the (2nd tier/B list) characters interesting...

-we got Luke Cage/ Jessica Jones...which Bendis had already done before and pretty much ported his love of these 2 over to the Avengers book. I'll tip my hat that for awhile Bendis improved cage as a character...but then he was like stuck in some steroetype role and really came off like a skipping record.

-Sentry? He tried a few trips into what makes the guy tick and they never forged an interest by the audience...

-HAWKEYE- Well he started off by killing the character...so his later solo type stories with the witch involved fizzled...it took a long time for that arc or seeds of an arc to go anywhere and even then it fizz'd out and was eventually wrapped up in the dissapointing and delayed Children's Crusade.

-Mockingbird- brought her back and promptly did nothing noteworthy with her..in fact had Hank pick up a romance with Spider Woman

-Spider Woman- he devoted time to this character but I'm just not really sure why. I always thought of Juila Carpenter as a better character.

-The Hood- Bendis kind of had me interested in him as a villain..but the story was marred by how he kinda parted the seas of other villians characterization in order to prop up the hood. Also Bendis just plain quit on the Hood.

-Protector-did nothing with the character

-Ares - Never did much with the guy Oeming did much more with him.

-Other Dark Avengers- Never were much more than shells other people like ELLis wrote better.

-Ronin/Echo- I don't know what the hell he was doing there..certainly quit on echo.

Bendis regime was not defined by his B list characters. It was defined by making A list street level guys Avengers...he couldnt show much development with those guys because they all had ongoing (spidey and DD). I think Iron Fist even fit into that category....and maybe this was because of Bendis, I guess it's the closest thing we got to success, but Brubaker did more for Danny in the end. Bendis even did this for villians...elevating "street level" threats such as Jigsaw, Electro, and The Hood, Osborn into Avengers Foes.

The one guy Bendis really could have focused on should have been Dr. Strange. He somewhat tried, but I never thought there was definitive strange stuff in his run. (Both the Dormammu and Ancient one arcs could have been classics...but they just never panned out)

Another thing too...while Bendis lacked much success defining characters in a positive way, he also focused on driving negative views and portrayals of other characters..

-He killed off Hawkeye
-Beat down Wonder man
-Left us with nearly a decade without the Vision or Witch (and these characters are still in a poor state)
-Ruined Jenkins work on Sentry
-Characters like Iron Man and Cap devolved into some very dark places
-Botched efforts on Ronin I/ Echo
-Never had any good showings from classic Marvel Villains (except maybe Osborn, a former street level villain)
-Put Hank Pym into a realm of more like his evil Ultimate U counterpart
- Removed Dr. Strange as Sorcerer Supreme and did nothing with Brother Vodoo that was interesting.
-Did nothing with workable characters like "The Protector"..although he's been picked up (by Gillian) left him in a more or less worthless state

Edit: I'll tip my hat that Bendis left behind some interesting characters like Daisy Johnson, Maria Hill, Michael Pointer, etc.. but mostly he just didnt do enough with these characters and they got abandoned..to more or less wishy washy treatment.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Bendis did not do it well..thats why..and really I don't think Bendis realy did much of actually making the (2nd tier/B list) characters interesting...

I disagree and will compare my notes with yours:

-we got Luke Cage/ Jessica Jones...which Bendis had already done before and pretty much ported his love of these 2 over to the Avengers book. I'll tip my hat that for awhile Bendis improved cage as a character...but then he was like stuck in some steroetype role and really came off like a skipping record.

I don't get the stereotype role at all. He never came accross as just another street thug black man. That'd be the stereotype. If anything, he broke that stereotype since that's all Luke's ever been. He wrote Luke as leadership material, a devoted family man, a dear friend, comic relief, etc. Bendis turned Luke Cage from a character I didn't give a crap about to one of my top 5 Marvel characters. And of course he developed Jessica Jones... he created her. She's had amazing growth as a character. Her and Luke both have.

-Sentry? He tried a few trips into what makes the guy tick and they never forged an interest by the audience...

I'll agree that the Sentry was a dud. It's hard to follow up on what Jenkins did with the character and I wasn't that interested in anything Bendis had him do. What I did like, however, was the last thing Bendis did with him, making him the wrath of God. I thought that was very interesting and I've thought of plenty of ways to expand upon that and make it more interesting.

-HAWKEYE- Well he started off by killing the character...so his later solo type stories with the witch involved fizzled...it took a long time for that arc or seeds of an arc to go anywhere and even then it fizz'd out and was eventually wrapped up in the dissapointing and delayed Children's Crusade.

The amount of time it took for that story to play out wasn't Bendis' fault so you can't fault him on that. It was Heinburg or whatever his name was.

-Mockingbird- brought her back and promptly did nothing noteworthy with her..in fact had Hank pick up a romance with Spider Woman

This I disagree with. First, Bendis didn't have Clint break up with Mockingbird... whoever wrote their mini did. Bendis just had Clint move on. And while Mockingbird didn't do much at first I thought she really grew as a character in the second volume of New Avengers. She became an interesting addition to the team, grew as a character (in both powers and personality in the modern world), and solidified herself as a member of the team without having to be handcuffed to Clint. Bendis did okay with her by me.

-Spider Woman- he devoted time to this character but I'm just not really sure why. I always thought of Juila Carpenter as a better character.

He devoted time to her because he was building her up to be the Skrull Queen. That makes sense and it lasted longer than he expected due to Civil War interupting his plans. Still, she turned into an interesting character that I really grew to like and, like Luke Cage, he esculated her worth on the page well beyond where she was when he started writing her. That is a good thing by the way

-The Hood- Bendis kind of had me interested in him as a villain..but the story was marred by how he kinda parted the seas of other villians characterization in order to prop up the hood. Also Bendis just plain quit on the Hood.

You're the first person I've ever heard say Bendis just gave up on the Hood. Most say he ran the character for too long. I actually think Bendis did a great job with the character, making me very interested in him. Yeah, it went a tad too long from post-Civil War through the Siege, but it was still interesting. And I really liked his final return with the Infinity Gems. I thought that was a nice concluding story for his quest for power.

-Protector-did nothing with the character

-Ares - Never did much with the guy Oeming did much more with him.

I agree with both of these.

-Other Dark Avengers- Never were much more than shells other people like ELLis wrote better.

Difference of opinion here. I honestly think Bendis used them just fine, as well as previous writers. I think Mac Gargon could be an exception. I loved his take on Bullseye and Osborn.

-Ronin/Echo- I don't know what the hell he was doing there..certainly quit on echo.

I can see that with Echo. I think a part of it is that he never planned on using Echo, he wanted Matt Murdock to be in the Ronin suit, which made sense. Then it was changed and he used Echo as a spy into the Japenese criminal underworld, which was a cool story (2 arcs worth). After that she just sorta tagged along, had a good solo issue prior to Secret Invasion, and then disappeared afterwords (until he killed her off in Moon Knight).

So yeah, I won't say he gave up on her as much as her story just ran out and he discarded her when he didn't have a story left for her (which makes sense I suppose).

Bendis regime was not defined by his B list characters. It was defined by making A list street level guys Avengers...he couldnt show much development with those guys because they all had ongoing (spidey and DD). I think Iron Fist even fit into that category....and maybe this was because of Bendis, I guess it's the closest thing we got to success, but Brubaker did more for Danny in the end. Bendis even did this for villians...elevating "street level" threats such as Jigsaw, Electro, and The Hood, Osborn into Avengers Foes.

While he couldn't develop the bigger names, I think he did a great job dealing with their personal relationships. Luke and Spidey were never mentioned in the same sentance until Bendis put them together and then they became a really cool buddy relationship, like Spidey and Torch. They bounced off each other wonderfully. Wolverine's role worked really well bouncing off of others like Iron Fist and Spidey. Iron Fist bounced off Luke and Jessica well. Captain America and Iron Man were good. Etc. Thing was pure Thing with everyone, exactly as he should have been.

So yeah, Bendis didn't do much on character growth for them individually (as that was dealt with in their solos) but he did a great job bouncing them off of each other.

And what was wrong with elevating street level thugs into Avenger level threats? I think Bendis did more for Osborn than anyone since his return at the end of the Clone Saga. Warren Ellis got that ball rolling and Bendis built upon it. Now it would feel wierd for me to see him just battling Spider-Man. I feel like he's outgrown Spidey. The Hood is a name now where he was just a mini thug before. He barely touched Electro or Jigsaw... not sure why you mentioned them.

The one guy Bendis really could have focused on should have been Dr. Strange. He somewhat tried, but I never thought there was definitive strange stuff in his run. (Both the Dormammu and Ancient one arcs could have been classics...but they just never panned out)

I'll agree with this. I've never been a big fan of Strange and Bendis didn't really do anything to make me care for him. Brian K. Vaughn did a better job in The Oath.

Another thing too...while Bendis lacked much success defining characters in a positive way, he also focused on driving negative views and portrayals of other characters..

Again, let's look at this:

-He killed off Hawkeye

And brought him back, making him more popular as a result.

-Beat down Wonder man

And later explained that Wonder man wasn't in his right mind. That's nothing new in comics. No harm done.

-Left us with nearly a decade without the Vision or Witch (and these characters are still in a poor state)

Technically, Bendis killed Vision off in one issue. Nothing stopped all the other dozens of writers who wrote other books from bringing him back. If anything, his killing off Vision gave us Jonas in the Young Avengers, which was awesome. It also gave us the Young Avengers in general, since it was Vision's files (post-Disassembled) that had Iron Lad form them.

And Wanda's long, drawn out return was not Bendis' fault, it was Heinburg or whatever his name was. Marvel was waiting for him to return to deal with the story. Otherwise she'd have returned years ago.

-Ruined Jenkins work on Sentry

I agree to an extent.

-Characters like Iron Man and Cap devolved into some very dark places

Nope... that one's on Mark Millar, not Bendis. He just picked up what Millar layed down and later fixed the relationship.

-Botched efforts on Ronin I/ Echo

This I disagree with. I wont' say he botched it as much as he played out hi story for her and moved on. He didn't have Murdock as he wanted and so he did the plot and dropped her for newer, more interesting characters. Chances are if Echo was still Murdock, he would have done a better job.

-Never had any good showings from classic Marvel Villains (except maybe Osborn, a former street level villain)

No reason to downplay Osborn. If he rose a street level character to a believable worldly threat, that's a good thing. Other than that Bendis also gave us good-to-great showings for classic characters: Madame Hydra (Viper), the Skrulls, Dr. Doom, Madame Mask, the Wrecking Crew, Ultron, Molecule Man, Bullseye, Loki, Dormammu, and the Hand.

I say that's a pretty good showing and a pretty good list of characters to have utilized and give decent showings to.

-Put Hank Pym into a realm of more like his evil Ultimate U counterpart

He wrote the Pym Skrull, of course he was evil. Other than that I don't see how he was written evily. He even gave Pym a fantastic compliment in a SI tie-in where he showed that Pym's intelligence kept screwing up the Skrulls they'd replace him with. Then when the real Pym came back Bendis didn't use him. There is no fault here.

- Removed Dr. Strange as Sorcerer Supreme and did nothing with Brother Vodoo that was interesting.

-Did nothing with workable characters like "The Protector"..although he's been picked up (by Gillian) left him in a more or less worthless state

I'll agree with these.

Edit: I'll tip my hat that Bendis left behind some interesting characters like Daisy Johnson, Maria Hill, Michael Pointer, etc.. but mostly he just didnt do enough with these characters and they got abandoned..to more or less wishy washy treatment.

The only characters I'll really say was a disappointment in how they were handled were the Sentry, Protector, Voodoo, and Bucky. Others were either mediocre (Strange for example) or great.


Anyhow, that's just my two cents. You have every right to disagree with me

 

[THANOSRULES]

I disagree and will compare my notes with yours:



I don't get the stereotype role at all. He never came accross as just another street thug black man. That'd be the stereotype. If anything, he broke that stereotype since that's all Luke's ever been. He wrote Luke as leadership material, a devoted family man, a dear friend, comic relief, etc. Bendis turned Luke Cage from a character I didn't give a crap about to one of my top 5 Marvel characters. And of course he developed Jessica Jones... he created her. She's had amazing growth as a character. Her and Luke both have.



I'll agree that the Sentry was a dud. It's hard to follow up on what Jenkins did with the character and I wasn't that interested in anything Bendis had him do. What I did like, however, was the last thing Bendis did with him, making him the wrath of God. I thought that was very interesting and I've thought of plenty of ways to expand upon that and make it more interesting.



The amount of time it took for that story to play out wasn't Bendis' fault so you can't fault him on that. It was Heinburg or whatever his name was.



This I disagree with. First, Bendis didn't have Clint break up with Mockingbird... whoever wrote their mini did. Bendis just had Clint move on. And while Mockingbird didn't do much at first I thought she really grew as a character in the second volume of New Avengers. She became an interesting addition to the team, grew as a character (in both powers and personality in the modern world), and solidified herself as a member of the team without having to be handcuffed to Clint. Bendis did okay with her by me.



He devoted time to her because he was building her up to be the Skrull Queen. That makes sense and it lasted longer than he expected due to Civil War interupting his plans. Still, she turned into an interesting character that I really grew to like and, like Luke Cage, he esculated her worth on the page well beyond where she was when he started writing her. That is a good thing by the way



You're the first person I've ever heard say Bendis just gave up on the Hood. Most say he ran the character for too long. I actually think Bendis did a great job with the character, making me very interested in him. Yeah, it went a tad too long from post-Civil War through the Siege, but it was still interesting. And I really liked his final return with the Infinity Gems. I thought that was a nice concluding story for his quest for power.



I agree with both of these.



Difference of opinion here. I honestly think Bendis used them just fine, as well as previous writers. I think Mac Gargon could be an exception. I loved his take on Bullseye and Osborn.



I can see that with Echo. I think a part of it is that he never planned on using Echo, he wanted Matt Murdock to be in the Ronin suit, which made sense. Then it was changed and he used Echo as a spy into the Japenese criminal underworld, which was a cool story (2 arcs worth). After that she just sorta tagged along, had a good solo issue prior to Secret Invasion, and then disappeared afterwords (until he killed her off in Moon Knight).

So yeah, I won't say he gave up on her as much as her story just ran out and he discarded her when he didn't have a story left for her (which makes sense I suppose).



While he couldn't develop the bigger names, I think he did a great job dealing with their personal relationships. Luke and Spidey were never mentioned in the same sentance until Bendis put them together and then they became a really cool buddy relationship, like Spidey and Torch. They bounced off each other wonderfully. Wolverine's role worked really well bouncing off of others like Iron Fist and Spidey. Iron Fist bounced off Luke and Jessica well. Captain America and Iron Man were good. Etc. Thing was pure Thing with everyone, exactly as he should have been.

So yeah, Bendis didn't do much on character growth for them individually (as that was dealt with in their solos) but he did a great job bouncing them off of each other.

And what was wrong with elevating street level thugs into Avenger level threats? I think Bendis did more for Osborn than anyone since his return at the end of the Clone Saga. Warren Ellis got that ball rolling and Bendis built upon it. Now it would feel wierd for me to see him just battling Spider-Man. I feel like he's outgrown Spidey. The Hood is a name now where he was just a mini thug before. He barely touched Electro or Jigsaw... not sure why you mentioned them.



I'll agree with this. I've never been a big fan of Strange and Bendis didn't really do anything to make me care for him. Brian K. Vaughn did a better job in The Oath.



Again, let's look at this:



And brought him back, making him more popular as a result.



And later explained that Wonder man wasn't in his right mind. That's nothing new in comics. No harm done.



Technically, Bendis killed Vision off in one issue. Nothing stopped all the other dozens of writers who wrote other books from bringing him back. If anything, his killing off Vision gave us Jonas in the Young Avengers, which was awesome. It also gave us the Young Avengers in general, since it was Vision's files (post-Disassembled) that had Iron Lad form them.

And Wanda's long, drawn out return was not Bendis' fault, it was Heinburg or whatever his name was. Marvel was waiting for him to return to deal with the story. Otherwise she'd have returned years ago.



I agree to an extent.



Nope... that one's on Mark Millar, not Bendis. He just picked up what Millar layed down and later fixed the relationship.



This I disagree with. I wont' say he botched it as much as he played out hi story for her and moved on. He didn't have Murdock as he wanted and so he did the plot and dropped her for newer, more interesting characters. Chances are if Echo was still Murdock, he would have done a better job.



No reason to downplay Osborn. If he rose a street level character to a believable worldly threat, that's a good thing. Other than that Bendis also gave us good-to-great showings for classic characters: Madame Hydra (Viper), the Skrulls, Dr. Doom, Madame Mask, the Wrecking Crew, Ultron, Molecule Man, Bullseye, Loki, Dormammu, and the Hand.

I say that's a pretty good showing and a pretty good list of characters to have utilized and give decent showings to.



He wrote the Pym Skrull, of course he was evil. Other than that I don't see how he was written evily. He even gave Pym a fantastic compliment in a SI tie-in where he showed that Pym's intelligence kept screwing up the Skrulls they'd replace him with. Then when the real Pym came back Bendis didn't use him. There is no fault here.



I'll agree with these.



The only characters I'll really say was a disappointment in how they were handled were the Sentry, Protector, Voodoo, and Bucky. Others were either mediocre (Strange for example) or great.


Anyhow, that's just my two cents. You have every right to disagree with me

You actually make some valid defenses..here..look..I'm not a card carrying Bendis Hater....his run was incredibly long and nuanced and I have very positive things to say about aspects of it...namely that the Avengers franchise in in the best shape it has ever been...and that is huge.

I do see the "angry black guy" in Luke and although you have some valid points, it was just too much Cage. He was in too many books and I got tired of him. He does have a lot of the aspects you mention, but when someone is so overexposed I started to only see the stereotypes.

I say the Hood dropped off because i did not think Bendis had him set up as a typical villain like Ultron or anything. He seemed from day 1 to forge this guy into the kind of villain who may be able to support his own book..he was like a character I'd like to follow...not be like a Kang who will pop up every 4-5 years and we'll all be happy..we got characterization ..then Bendis dropped him off the edge of the world.

Not sure I give bendis the full credit of building up SPider WOman that whole time to be the Skrull Queen...or really Pym for that matter. I never believed he had this kind of stuff planned so far in advance. Clearly the stuff with Mar-Vell throws serious doubts into the complexity of the long term planning of that event.

(real) Vision was clearly held up with Heinenberg's stuff..I still think Bendis is accountable for some of this AND for Millar's major characterizations in Civil War. Bendis is a huge force at marvel..the guy has a voice and say. Again while you make a good point...i don't totally absolve Bendis.

I do fully agree with you that Bendis really did a good job with the humor of some characters...he really writes some of the best conversational dialogue in comics and those moments with Spidey and Rand did kinda define the best of Bendis.

Again what I fully believe is that the Secondary characters (typically those without there own ongoings) were not handled well by Bendis when you look at the total of the work...most of these guys were either underused or simply I didnt like or was interested in what he did with him.

In the end he didnt really make the ones that worked (Cage and Rand) future "quintessential Avengers" ..he largely kept them viable and in a better spot, but not the same kind of role for me as what I see in guys like Hawkeye, Wonderman, Vision and Scarlet Witch.

 

[Quasimod0]

I definitely agree about bendis making me like luke cage alot more. Never cared for him before, but now he is one of my favorite characters.
Also agree about the dynamic between characters like luke, spidey, wolverine, iron fist, and the thing and whoever else. I loved the family feel of the new avengers team and the way the characters interacted with one another.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I think Bendis injected life into Avengers again! They were pratically dead in the water before him. I admit, he did better with the "street" Avengers than the "big" ones, but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I love that he made them personal,and gave them personality and flaws.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Jesus, we are talking entirely too much about a guy whose influence on the Avengers' comics has dwindled to almost nothing. How about this new Smasher chick? Kind of interesting that the Imperial Guard recruits from all over the universe, but I suppose that was implied by the fact that they're always a pretty weird-looking bunch (by Shi'ar standards) and their members get killed off with alarming regularity. I guess they're cool with humans now that the Phoenix is no longer a threat. I wonder if Hickman will bring that up--Scarlet Witch and Hope essentially doing with a wave of their hands what the Shi'ar Empire couldn't manage in just about forever with all the resources at their disposal. Humans: 1, bird-people: 0.

 

[THANOSRULES]

It's funny because smasher is the most uninteresting and generic Imperial Guard of all time...maybe that's the hook.

Speaking of Hook...what was really the hook to the new Captain Marvel series?...was it just the name change? Did they have any plan for this book at all?

I can see the pitch now.. "We start off with a time travel arc!..and then we segue into some further irrelevant arc. We'll even tone her down in Avengers books!"

I hear there are rumblings that Remender may have plans for a Mar-vell (another) revival based on the Mar-vell AvX appearance.

 

[RockSP]

it was just too much Cage. He was in too many books and I got tired of him. He does have a lot of the aspects you mention, but when someone is so overexposed I started to only see the stereotypes.

Avengers and Thunderbolts and...what else? He was never Wolverine.

I love that he made them personal,and gave them personality and flaws.

...c'mon now.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I'm serious