The Riddler as a serial killer? I don't think so. He's not that crazy. He's a robber and the reason he robs is because he equates money with respect, which is his ultimate goal. To demean Batman and be taken seriously, to be a big shot basically.
But I doubt he really has the guts to start killing lone people, under the right circumstances he could be a killer but it's not the norm for him.
Serial Killer Riddler = bad idea. He's not The Zodiac, he's not Charles Manson, he's not John Doe from Se7en, he's not -god forbid- Jigsaw from the Saw movies.
I wasn't too fond of Nolan turning the Joker into G.G. Allin, but now it's the accepted interpretation of the character. This board is just for ideas anyway, don't take it too seriously.
I wasn't too fond of Nolan turning the Joker into G.G. Allin, but now it's the accepted interpretation of the character. This board is just for ideas anyway, don't take it too seriously.
Because the liberties Nolan took were not related to their character, their personalities. The Riddler is supposed to be a weak, weasely little scumbag, that's how he's portrayed. You can't suddenly have him murdering people and desecrating their corpses and call it The Riddler because it's something his character wouldn't do.
The Penguin - I agree with the other poster that adv he would be a child of high society, his age should be around 15 or 16 when this occurs, his father was one of those making deals with the falcone family to insure their lifestyle letting them use warehouses to move goods etc.
Oswalds father is using one of the warehouses for some personal reason, maybe having an affair with oswalds nanny and the two of them witness a mob hit, the girl screams, the thugs not wanting any witnesses kill him and the nanny when the head of the family finds out fearing what the mother may know about the arrangement the Cobblepot family have with him decide to sell the mother and child into slavery, through the chechen who has contacts in russia. Maybe have one of Oswalds last memorys being thrown into a cage that makes him think of the aviary behind their home, and watch as the mob guys that take them gun down his beloved birds.
While in Russia Cobblepot works his way up through the russian mob, eventually working himself up to arms dealer. He is sent back to gotham to start a front that the russian family can use to move things into this country through gotham. He would take control of the Iceberg Lounge. He would also begin attacking maroni's businesses interests. The only people that would call him penguin would be underlings that were making fun of the way he looks, maybe they could have it be said that is how he elimnated one of his former competitors, thrown to a flock of birds, and somewhere along the line it was miscontrued into people thinking he threw him to a group of penguins.
He would eventually take a large portion of the city for himself before batman comes down on him. On a side note I would like to see him catch one of his underlings refer to him as the penguin and his reaction is twisting a lever that instead of extending a sword, it shoots the tip of the umbrella out to reveal a blade about maybe 10 inches in length into said thugs throat and watch him bleed out and ask the rest if there are going to be anymore penguin comments. Then that would be the next thing to make the rounds no matter what you do dont call him penguin. Also IMO the ideal way for batman to defeat the penguin would be to reunite him with his mother who he has not seen since they were sold. Maybe have every case that the police put together against him falls apart because everything the penguin does is planned out with an alibi clearing him of all wrongdoing. Casting Phillip Seymor Hoffman
The Riddler - I'm going to say keep it simple, I agree he should not be a serial killer ala zodiac or seven, I think of him more as a mad bomber, type I kind of like the idea of him settin up games, maybe more akin to saw than the other type where if the person he abducts can solve the riddle they are free. I would also have him target strictly the high society types, people with money to lose, because while they are distracted playing his game he is breaking into there bank accounts and taking them for every dime he can get as long as they are in the game. That would also be a cool way to introduce him to batman in my opinion have him kidnap bruce wayne and maybe have bruce be the first one to solve the riddle. This would lead to a grudge between them, The riddler targets wayne wanting more than what he managed to get from him. They could even have it be a situation where wayne uses himself as bait to try and capture the riddler leading to the first event, because of the streak of deaths in the high society community, have the riddler only go after people he feels are ungrateful for the life they have. Casting - Kiefer Sutherland
Mr. Freeze - My idea for freeze ties him to black mask and the false face society. His story is he works for a major pharmaceutical company Janus Inc, He is trying to find a cure for a rare form of cancer, one that very few people have just because he is trying to make the world a better place. His employers not happy with how slowly his research is progressing decide that if they expose his new bride to this rare form of cancer to hasten his research, and in response realizing he is losing his wife he attempts to freeze her to halt the stop the cancer from killing her, The Project supervisor finds out about it and attempts to intervene in the process and Freeze is exposed to the chemicals in his lab that he was using to freeze her, and maybe have it be a binary agent is the only thing that allows it to work so by him being exposed to only half of it, that is what damages his skin and forces him into a cryo suit, have him escape the lab but as he is in the process have him witness the project head deactivate his wifes stasis resulting in her death leading to his personal vendetta against the janus corporation. I also think it would be a cool little nod if Mr. Earl returned to the films as the newly instated ceo of janus while Roman Sionis is in college and when he attempts a takeover of his company similar to what bruce did to earl, earl being prepared this time causes sionis to lose it all. Leading to the company being bought out by Wayne Enterprises. Sionis would create the false face society to attack waynes company and one of his first acts would be to put a hit out on Mr. Earl, Freeze would become a hitman for the sole purpose of getting revenge on the men he blames for his wifes death. Mr. Earl, and Roman Sionis. I think Sionis should be the project head that actually pulls the plug on freezes wife. casting- Ed harris
Here is an idea also maybe when Roman starts making his play for taking control of his company have Earl Hire the Riddler to kill Sionis, but the Riddler is not a killer at heart, he is prepared to do it but a hired hit isnt what he does so he puts roman through the ritual of a bomb and a riddle and sionis does not solve it but manages to avoid the explosion except for his face which is badly damaged as a result of whatever he hides behind being super heated by the explosion buring his face, leading to him starting the falce face society also explaining why everyone has to wear there masks at all times. Sionis in his hit on earl he also takes out a contract on the riddler leading to him running to the police for protection from freeze, maybe have him watch freeze make an attempt on the riddler.
casting for sionis I havent come up with anyone yet, maybe use someone like ryan gosling or one of the many other names that was thrown out for batman before bale was announced before begins.
Anyone else think the whole batman taking the blame for the dent killings is a front for getting rid of the batman copycats on the streets with guns
Batman "fans" made me hate Crispin Glover. Seriously of all people why is he suggeted, and why is he suggested so much, and why is he suggested by so many people? Is he a great actor? No. Has he ever done a great acting performance? No. When was the top of his career. 20 years ago, playing the supporting role in a comedy. And even there he was overshaddowed by the rest of the cast.
Here's an idea for Ivy I think might fit into the Nolan-verse.
Pamela Isley; a plant-life expert and eco-warrior/terrorist. She was reponsible for working the propeties of the blue flower found by the headquarters of Ra's Al Ghul into the ingrediants necessary for Crane to create his fear toxin. She agreed to help manufacture the flower for Crane as he promised to use it to bring down Gotham, which Ivy views as being one of the main polluting cities on the planet.
After learning that Crane failed in his plan, Ivy decides to enter Gotham and devise her own plan, intent on bringing down the city and allowing mother nature to reclaim it.
(As for what Ivy's plan is when she gets to Gotham, I am unsure of so far. Feel free to make suggestions!)
Ivy herself is obsessed with plant-life, and is, much like her comic counterpart, an incredible misanthrope, loathing humankind immensley, as she blames them for the ruining of the planet and the destruction of nature itself. Because of her misanthropy, Ivy's dream is become one with the plant-world, becoming a plant herself, and due to her incredible bottany, chemistry and science intelligence, begins to craft substances which she injects and injects into herself.
These injections of various experiments cause her to slowly mutate throughout the film. At the beginning she is human in appearence, but as the film progresses she slowly becomes more tweaked in appearence; her skins pales and becomes pallid, her veins raise and become blackened, her hair begins to become dreadlocked and 'vinelike' until, as she becomes more and more plantlike, her hair begins to fall out.
I envisioned her at the end of the film, to be seemingly quite affected (slow, panting for breath, almost as if she is infected by a disease). I imagined her hair to almost have entirely fallen out and black patches to have appeared on her skin all over her body. Small thorns and spores could also have broken the flesh and raise out of her skin in patches.
Small scenes could maybe also show Ivy wretching or vomitting blood or some sort of substance, as to further suggest that the more she continues to take these experimental suibstances, the more she is destroying her body whilst she mutates, but she continues to as her obsession with furthering herself from humankind grows moreso as she mutates further away.
My ideas for Mr. Freeze, and actually thinking about it, possibly interchangeable for Hugo Strange in most parts.
Dr. Friese is a former Nazi doctor who worked with Josef Mengale at Auschwitz during WWII. He is also known to also have mob ties (possibly he is being blackmailed by them). Most of his patients, goons that have had their butts kicked by Batman, have a nickname for him, Mr. Freeze, because of the similar sound of his name, the low temperature he keeps his workplace at, and his cold personality in general. Anyways I see several different routes you could go with this....
1. As mob bosses start getting picked off 1 by 1 by Batman and Gordon (and possibly even Two Face), Freeze realizes that he actually has what it takes to be in control. and before long, he is the new kingpin of Gotham's various gangs. As crime begins to escalate due to Freeze's genius, horribly mutilated bodies, results of continuing his sick nazi experiments, mainly in cryogenics, also begin to show up causing panic all over Gotham.
2. The GCPD learns about the existence of Friese somehow, and realize that by arresting him they would have an invaluable witness. However, Friese has no interest in being arrested, knowing his identity would then be confirmed and he would extradited to Israel for war crimes. Now from here you could either have him ashamed of his past, and not wanting to be extradited for fear his grandchildren/family will find out about his past, or simply because he is a sicko who wants to continue Naziesque experiments.
I think this works well for Freeze, because it plants him firmly in the real world, making him more acceptable in the Nolanverse, It creates a villain who is equally sick as the joker, but in an entirely different way, and because it wouldn't waste too much time with an origin story. I do realize Nolan said he didn't want to use villains who have already been on screen too much, and that Schwarzenegger's awful performance is still fresh in peoples memories.
My top choices to play him are James Caan, Julian Glover and I really like the idea for Terry o Quinn. Each one would bring something incredibly different to the character, and all are excellent actors.
omg I was expecting something bad (they always are with Nolan Ivy's) but that is horrible. She's not The Fly. she's never been ugly unless she's in prison away from light and air. so much of her character depends on being her alluring
probably the best way to do Ivy in the NolanWorldz is to take a leaf from Hothouse. In that story her toxins cause people to see her as a floating green goddess surrounded by reams of flowers and vines, otherwise she's just a mousy little scientist. Problem is this would be going over Scarecrows old ground. Depends if you can make the flower link work I guess.
Nolan should consider Hugo Strange as a secondary villain. He played an integral part in Batman's earlier career in the comics. Rupert Thorne wouldnt be a bad idea either. Someone like Brian Cox would be perfect.
Ive also been toying around with the idea of the Terrible Trio.
Here's an idea for Ivy I think might fit into the Nolan-verse.
Pamela Isley; a plant-life expert and eco-warrior/terrorist. She was reponsible for working the propeties of the blue flower found by the headquarters of Ra's Al Ghul into the ingrediants necessary for Crane to create his fear toxin. She agreed to help manufacture the flower for Crane as he promised to use it to bring down Gotham, which Ivy views as being one of the main polluting cities on the planet.
After learning that Crane failed in his plan, Ivy decides to enter Gotham and devise her own plan, intent on bringing down the city and allowing mother nature to reclaim it.
(As for what Ivy's plan is when she gets to Gotham, I am unsure of so far. Feel free to make suggestions!)
Ivy herself is obsessed with plant-life, and is, much like her comic counterpart, an incredible misanthrope, loathing humankind immensley, as she blames them for the ruining of the planet and the destruction of nature itself. Because of her misanthropy, Ivy's dream is become one with the plant-world, becoming a plant herself, and due to her incredible bottany, chemistry and science intelligence, begins to craft substances which she injects and injects into herself.
These injections of various experiments cause her to slowly mutate throughout the film. At the beginning she is human in appearence, but as the film progresses she slowly becomes more tweaked in appearence; her skins pales and becomes pallid, her veins raise and become blackened, her hair begins to become dreadlocked and 'vinelike' until, as she becomes more and more plantlike, her hair begins to fall out.
I envisioned her at the end of the film, to be seemingly quite affected (slow, panting for breath, almost as if she is infected by a disease). I imagined her hair to almost have entirely fallen out and black patches to have appeared on her skin all over her body. Small thorns and spores could also have broken the flesh and raise out of her skin in patches.
Small scenes could maybe also show Ivy wretching or vomitting blood or some sort of substance, as to further suggest that the more she continues to take these experimental suibstances, the more she is destroying her body whilst she mutates, but she continues to as her obsession with furthering herself from humankind grows moreso as she mutates further away.
I could see parts of it working and parts of it not, I agree that she should mutate, but not to the level you described, I see Ivy looking more like she did in The Long Halloween, with her skin having a green tint to it, I think she should wear a cloak to hide it and if she takes the cloak down her targets realize how beautiful and stunning she is, I like the idea of thorns popping out of her skin, I think it would be cool to see her develop natures brass knucks, with large thorns popping out of her fists, that inject a highly potent poision.
I would think her grafting it to her skin herself would be a bit more realistic then mutations. This isn't Spiderman. Its not so much that I am against something like this done tastefully, its just that its a slippery slope from there, and if (God Forbid) another director/writer then the Nolans take over, it just gives them more room to mess things up.
I would think her grafting it to her skin herself would be a bit more realistic then mutations. This isn't Spiderman. Its not so much that I am against something like this done tastefully, its just that its a slippery slope from there, and if (God Forbid) another director/writer then the Nolans take over, it just gives them more room to mess things up.
I see what your saying, I have been like everyone else on here trying to come up with ideas on what they might do for the next one, and to be honest I am having a hard time coming up with a story for Poision Ivy that makes sense, I mean if we make her an eco terrorist, why not just tie her into the league of assassins.
Got a question, if Nolan ever decides to use Black Mask, then how on earth do they realistically do him? He's got a stone on his head... It looks great in the comics, but on screen you have an unflexible rock sculpted from a headstone... what happens when it cracks? take more of the headstone? even then... with all the fighting he'll do, it'll be easy to crack it...
I say they have molten rock/lava fall on his face and it molds to his face. But then they'd have to drop the idea that he took the stone from his mother's gravestone and that's a good approach... it's something that makes him insane.
Or they could just have him take the stone from the headstone and have him PURPOSELY burn it to molten lava and pour it on his face... but then it'd be non-accidental. Accidents tend to help a villain's story... exception for Joker... for him it works perfectly (to have non-accidental)...
Damn.. Daniel Day-Lewis in a Batman movie directed by Nolan.. oh well, we can only dream
By the way, I'd love to get that pic you have in your avatar, unedited.. but couldn't find it anywhere (I googled it for 10 minutes and then gave up)
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