The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Ceb-Man]

Killer Croc. A new spin but still the same old monster. Bear with me.

He's not a hokey cajun or a circus freak or a brainless enforcer. He HAS actually run his own crew in comics before and so he does in this version, running a network of drug dealers and car re-birthers etc, but his main personal interest is in illegal fighting, both man and animal. When we meet him he's BIG and ugly and thugged-out in heavy jewelry, fur coats, gilded guns and knives etc. Think Antwon Mitchell from The Shield except with all the garish trappings of luxury, success and power on display. oh and he kills people with his hands and teeth. Of course he's also little scaly, skin condition, or if it's not too tactless make him an African-American albino for a striking visual. or both. He has diamond-studded teeth, 'scales' tattooed across his arms and the letters CROC across his neck. He's extremely dangerous in a one-to-one. Maybe he fights pitbulls for fun.

That's just the introduction. As Croc becomes more involved in the story we learn from Gordon that Waylon Jones grew up a lonely, scrawny little outcast 'freak' on the streets of Gotham. It becomes obvious why he's so obsessed with his fearsome image and reputation - being 'Croc' is the only way he's survived into adulthood, and indeed, it's what enabled him to to rise to power. In this way he's similair to Burtons Penguin. By cultivating a ruthless, larger-than-life persona he's overcome his inner freak - the frightened, starving lizard-boy - and become one of the most respected players in Gotham. We can imagine he was actually a kind and sensitive kid but his world crushed him and now the monster's risen up and buried him. This vulnerability, self-awareness and self-pity would occasionally shine through on screen, it's important.

Batman understands all this perfectly, having once taken refuge in a monster himself. But unlike Bruce Waylon can only save himself by hurting others, so he has to go.

And now for the fall. Batman chases Croc and corners him where there's no bodyguards, automatic weapons or pet alligators to help him. Batman has already destroyed Crocs fleet of cars, trashed his flashy hangout, frightened away his girls, and now in a filthy back alley Batman strips aways the fancy clothes and the jewels, and in a cruel finishing touch he knocks the diamond-studded teeth from Crocs mouth and taunts him until he's reduced to a pleading quivering wreck. Croc is actually begging Batman to leave him alone. Police find him tied up and humiliated in front of his old stripclub, and they put him in the wagon.

As the cops take him to the station he's completely unraveling. Self-pity turns to rage. He's been stomped, bullied and broken before and this time is no different. He looks through the bars at the smirking cops and this is where the real Croc is born. Powered by primal rage and survival instinct he smashes through the metal grille and rips out the drivers throat with one hand. The second cop pulls his gun, Croc shoots him with it, grabs the keys and emerges from the cage half naked, wild and snarling, his mouth a toothless gummy mess. Onlookers scream and he runs into a sewer tunnel. From here we've got something much closer to the comics.

Maimed corpses are turning up in back alleyways. A jogger at twilight is dragged screaming into the bushes in Gotham Park. Croc's empire, image and reputation is smashed. The veneer of power and respectability is gone. He's back to the old freak-boy surviving on instinct and robbery, except this time he's not so frightened and weak. A dental surgeon is founded maimed in his office, and one of Crocs old girls is picked up wandering in the street, dazed and bloody, Croc having returned to an old hang-out and things turning violent. Batman knows that Croc will leave a trail of bodies as he attempts to muscle his way back into the underworld.

When they eventually meet again, Croc has sharp new metal teeth, studs of metal in his knuckles and elbows (he rose up in streetfighting remember) and he's abandoned all the bling, the superficial image. He doesn't have to act now. When Batman stomps his arse again (although he almost had his face chewed off) Croc doesn't break and cry this time, he's just a snapping beast. Batman says "You could have left, gone somewhere quiet, you'd be left alone. You didn't have to become like this". But Waylon says "Heh. A croc only belongs in the wild". He means the city, the streets, the down and dirty. But then Gordon tranqs his arse and says "yeah, or a zoo". And then the Penguin says 'waugh'

I love this!... Uh after Batman 3... Killer Croc for Batman 4 please!

 

[Ceb-Man]

Nepenthes You also have some great ideas for Mr. Freeze and Firefly.
Any pictures of what Freeze might look like?

 

[Nepenthes]

Thanks . I try to rationalise their gimmicks and actions so it makes sense and contributes to a story arc. so you can have the novelty from the comics but it also seems like a more believable scenario which would be required for this type of treatment.


Freeze would be gentle looking old dude, someone you can feel sorry for. The 'costume' is basically like a old hazmat suit with a dark panel over his face, maybe some glowing lenses underneath. A backpack device for his weapon. Knee and elbow pads.

a cross between these these two, except more boxy and 'horror' looking. needs look like a practical thermal suit modified for action

this is um...interesting as well. except my version needs to hide his face and look like less of a dork

 

[BubbaGump]

^ Yeah I considered that too, it IS in the comics after all. But it's also kinda predictable and overdone, another disfigured villain whose physicality reflects their gimmick. It should have never happened in the comics I think.




Anyway, I actually had to use Google to dig this up...buried in the Batsuit thread....Mr.Freeze beaten with the realism hammer. At the time I posted it people were complaining that every Freeze story was the same; he basically whinges about his wife and then zaps people, and it was getting boring...


"Here's my idea for a heavily toned-down Freeze that would actually be pretty damn grim, bringing out the best of his story. He doesn't have to be a one-note character crying over the death of his wife, instead, make him a relatively normal guy conflicted over the fcked up things he has to do to save her. His wife is in an illegal and experimental cryo-stasis, however in this version it's in a dingy clandestine bunker instead of some nice shiny hi-tech lab. A cure for her disease is now available.... but because the cryo-process was imperfect he doesn't know how to bring her out without leaving brain damage. He needs to experiment on other living patients, and he needs a steady supply.

The scientist makes a deal with a criminal enterprise to dispose of their mob victims as long as they're delivered to him alive. Maybe the mob try to blackmail him into when they discover his secret bunker or something. Either way, it's mutually beneficial; when the 'experiments' eventually become corpses the freezing process will confuse police examiners to the time of death, thwarting investigation. So now you've got a terrified and desperate scientist freezing people alive in a dark little basement and ultimately committing murder for his wife. He's tortured by it but he has no choice. Eventually the mob boss decides the scientist will probably collapse under the strain of such depravity and confess to the police, so he sends hitmen along to get him. But the scientist is as clever as he is paranoid, and the hitmen never return. He devices a weapon to fend of the inevitable reprisals that will follow.

The reason he uses this special 'Liquid Ice' pump is because it doesn't kill on contact. Victims become slow and collapse into a frozen unconsciousness, thus preserving them for experiments. Previously on the first attack against the hitmen the scientist used regular dry ice, the kind that exists in the real world. This stuff is deadly, it kills on contact so it's no good. At this point he needs to go out and proactively target his enemies instead of waiting for them to send hitmen to his bunker, endangering the safety of his wife. He'll wipe them out until they agree to leave him alone, but while he's killing them he may as well get paid for it...so here's the opportunity for an alliance with a rival mob. The desperate scientist becomes reluctant assassin: he doesn't doesn't belong in this seedy world and it begins to eat his soul. Also, he knows not to make the same mistake twice....to preserve his identity among his new cohorts he wears a full body thermal suit, the one he wears to keep warm when working in his refrigerated bunker. He looks like a ghostly spaceman, they dub him "Mr.Freeze".

When Batman eventually clues his way to Freeze's bunker he's attacked by mindless, vicious freeze-zombies! They're the brain damaged survivors of the process who are now subservient to the scientist. He encases Batman in a layer of ice, his ruined armour protects him but he's numb, slow and clumsy, making it hard to avoid blows from an icepick. Freeze tries to apologise for what he's doing, crying as he lays on blows. When he's finally sent to Blackgate Bruce Wayne pays for an in-house cryolab so the repentant scientist can continue researching how to save his wife, along with the victims that are still frozen alive."

F***ing A...

 

[Artistsean]

^ Yeah I considered that too, it IS in the comics after all. But it's also kinda predictable and overdone, another disfigured villain whose physicality reflects their gimmick. It should have never happened in the comics I think.




Anyway, I actually had to use Google to dig this up...buried in the Batsuit thread....Mr.Freeze beaten with the realism hammer. At the time I posted it people were complaining that every Freeze story was the same; he basically whinges about his wife and then zaps people, and it was getting boring...


"Here's my idea for a heavily toned-down Freeze that would actually be pretty damn grim, bringing out the best of his story. He doesn't have to be a one-note character crying over the death of his wife, instead, make him a relatively normal guy conflicted over the fcked up things he has to do to save her. His wife is in an illegal and experimental cryo-stasis, however in this version it's in a dingy clandestine bunker instead of some nice shiny hi-tech lab. A cure for her disease is now available.... but because the cryo-process was imperfect he doesn't know how to bring her out without leaving brain damage. He needs to experiment on other living patients, and he needs a steady supply.

The scientist makes a deal with a criminal enterprise to dispose of their mob victims as long as they're delivered to him alive. Maybe the mob try to blackmail him into when they discover his secret bunker or something. Either way, it's mutually beneficial; when the 'experiments' eventually become corpses the freezing process will confuse police examiners to the time of death, thwarting investigation. So now you've got a terrified and desperate scientist freezing people alive in a dark little basement and ultimately committing murder for his wife. He's tortured by it but he has no choice. Eventually the mob boss decides the scientist will probably collapse under the strain of such depravity and confess to the police, so he sends hitmen along to get him. But the scientist is as clever as he is paranoid, and the hitmen never return. He devices a weapon to fend of the inevitable reprisals that will follow.

The reason he uses this special 'Liquid Ice' pump is because it doesn't kill on contact. Victims become slow and collapse into a frozen unconsciousness, thus preserving them for experiments. Previously on the first attack against the hitmen the scientist used regular dry ice, the kind that exists in the real world. This stuff is deadly, it kills on contact so it's no good. At this point he needs to go out and proactively target his enemies instead of waiting for them to send hitmen to his bunker, endangering the safety of his wife. He'll wipe them out until they agree to leave him alone, but while he's killing them he may as well get paid for it...so here's the opportunity for an alliance with a rival mob. The desperate scientist becomes reluctant assassin: he doesn't doesn't belong in this seedy world and it begins to eat his soul. Also, he knows not to make the same mistake twice....to preserve his identity among his new cohorts he wears a full body thermal suit, the one he wears to keep warm when working in his refrigerated bunker. He looks like a ghostly spaceman, they dub him "Mr.Freeze".

When Batman eventually clues his way to Freeze's bunker he's attacked by mindless, vicious freeze-zombies! They're the brain damaged survivors of the process who are now subservient to the scientist. He encases Batman in a layer of ice, his ruined armour protects him but he's numb, slow and clumsy, making it hard to avoid blows from an icepick. Freeze tries to apologise for what he's doing, crying as he lays on blows. When he's finally sent to Blackgate Bruce Wayne pays for an in-house cryolab so the repentant scientist can continue researching how to save his wife, along with the victims that are still frozen alive."

Really nice, I like it alot (even the changed suit) Very nice.
(just one of my own ideas, not trying to change your story at all)
Maybe after he starts killing he could even sort of go into a trans type thing where he almost has no emotional reaction to anything. A sort of defense against what he is doing and what is happening to him.
That way he could still act like the emotionless Mr. Freeze.

I even like the suits you suggested. I was going to suggest something like these:

Spoiler

or something like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jQa2vLa_A3Q

Just some ideas.
I love your Mr. Freeze idea. It would be perfect for the Nolan Batman World.

Still need to read your idea for Killer Croc.

 

[Valorman]

i think robin could work, IF you use him right.

to have robin work you NEED to build on bruce's guilt.

Dick grayson's a 17 year old member of the flying graysons, a high-flying family of trapease artists, and the circuse's main attraction.then theirs the death, murder, yada yada yada you know that part. the big differince is, bruce didint come to enjoy the show, he CAME to observe boss Zucco, but is using the guise of bruce wayne as his simplistic disguise (guess it's a perk of the duel idenity thing.) Zucco, in my mind, would be another mobster in the long line of those attempting to fill the criminal void left by batman. The ringmaster (guessing he owns the circus) is in major debt with zucco, and, as a result of NOT paying him, zucco decides to cut his best act short. maybe they have some kind of history together that makes zucco hate him that much more, not sure.

Bruce, in the auidence, is actualy the one who runs over to save grayson. leaping amidst the chaos and catching him with a tuck-and-roll. but it's too late for his parents.

Bruce, carrying an unconcious dick grayson outside, runs him over to a crew of paramedics while he run's and quickly don's his batman garb "brought it with him VIA limo...and alfred" and chases down the murderers and Zucco, but Zucco get's away. Later, gordon meets batman on their roof, and they talk about what's happend. gordon explains that grayson has noone, and the orphanages in gotham are beyond cruel, everyone knows it, so he's scared for the boy, especialy with all the attention he'll be getting due to the media blitz about the crazyness of the whole thing. The Bat leaves, and visits grayson in the hospital, with alfred beside him. alfred ask's him what he is thinking, and bruce decides to let dick stay untill everything blows over, give the boy time to heal until he can move on, no one is sure how, but bruce isint making this temporary, not with the life he leads.

basicaly, the idea is to have dick be taken in by bruce, not as a ward, but just as someone who cares, something he knew his FATHER would do if put under the same situation.

Dick has fallen into a deep depression, and bruce, struggling over how this affects his life, is having a hard time being there for the boy. Alfred however, is picking up some slack, and enjoys graysons humor and charm. he's a smart kid, going through a very hard time, but he's still who he is at the end of the day, and we can see little moments of that when he lets himself out of his darkness.

i would build bruces relationship from there, maybe something to do with dick going missing, and bruce finding him at the spot where his parents died. bruce, from here on in "with a little encouraging from alfred" would solve this problem in his own way, by bringing justice to the grayson case.

a KEY point in the story would involve a raid at wayne mansion by zucco and his boys, pissed off at dick grayson for the unwanted attention he's getting (by batman, by a leak in the media saying he's a prime suspect in this murder, and by gordon, who somehow knows more than he should, considdering zucco's paying big to keep gotham's finest in the dark). zucco's boy's barge in, and during this time batman isint present to stop their actions. they come in and hurt alfred, badly. and begin looking for the boy. grayson makes a daring attempt to escape, but is eventualy caught, and left hurt aswell, possibly with a broken leg, something close to that. alfred, with his badass michaelcainery, winds up suprising the man attempting to kill dick, and takes him out.(not to dinner, if you're wondering.) and, in a desperate attempt to escape, takes the injured dick(hehe) into the safest place he knows, the batcave. he proceedes to call bruce and tell him to get his arse back, because really, he kinnddaa need's to be there.

once the men are done with, and everyone's had time to heal, bruce decides it's necessary to have a bigggg talk with grayson. realising dick can't go anywhere else now, bruce takes him in, 1: to keep an eye on him, and 2: to train him, not as a FUTURE PARTNER or anything, but to prevent him from being hurt when bruce isint there. he realises that dick has become a big part of his life now, and he isint going to let people exploit that and ruin the mission. besides, he can't have a 17 year old orphan who know's his secret out in the open, it makes him a loose end bruce really can't have.

well, cutting the last bit short, i though dick would become robin of his own accord, maybe after a few months/a year or so of training. not meaning that he's just as GOOD as batman after a few months, but enough for him to kick some ass on the outside when needed. Dick becomes somewhat like a younger oracle during this time, relaying information to bruce VIA the computer when necessary. better to have two people relaying information than one (so alfred and dick are perhaps, both on stand-by if bruce needs anything). during a time where alfreds needed with bruce during a high-risk infiltration (like a major gathering of richie riches with another person who needs watching over, like a talia al-ghul thing or something.) danger could insue, and, as a result of being cut off with communication, dick decides to do the "right thing" and steals a ton of equiptment (thinking some prototype armor, or his training outfit maybe? some high tech gauntlets, a retractable staff, an old belt from one of bruces suits and like, a red hoodie over it, and perhaps some goggles) then heads out on a bat-pod to save his new family, or at least help them.

"Robin" would be successful, but that wouldint matter, and bruce would be furious that dick even attempted something so insane. dick admits that he see's himself being partners with bruce, wanted to help take out guys like zucco so he doesint need to worry that more people like him are getting hurt on the outside. bruce, being who he is, refuses entirely, and decides the entire thing was a mistake, he takes actions to have dick transfered out of gotham and with a family he believes will be good for grayson. dick, who will have none of this, run's away, leaving no trail of where he's going or even giving any warning to his wereabouts. bruce looses him, and struggles over the reality of letting anyone into his life, he feels the pain he felt when loosing his parents (maybe not to the same degree. but similar). and never really get's over his failure, but, again, utilizes that pain and put's it into his mission, much like his fear of bats or the pain of loosing his parents. in the end, robin here enhances batman, instead of hindering him, which i think a lot of people use as a reason to hate robin in the first place.


eventualy of course, these two would run into each other years later in bludhaven, dick, having kept with his training (but with applying his own athletics and ninjutsu with the gritty, streetfighting of his new home) has now become nightwing, which bruce objects to, but seeing him gives him a sense of closure, and their relationship may eventualy become less strained over time.

just thought it'd be a cool idea. maybe dick even changes his name to jason todd when he leaves, during his years as a broke and near-homeless crimefighter in a worse city than gotham. and returns to "dick grayson" when he decides to join the police academy at 20.

any thoughts are welcome.

 

[Ceb-Man]

You know I was thinking of Poison Ivy could have a look smiliar to Roulette, the JSA villianess with the long dress. She could be over an operation who goes after rich millionaires and kills them, then taking their money. She would be a scientist who is known for generous giving and research to enviromental causes, but secretly is an evil woman who wants nothing but to kill and gain money. No powers but the plant tie in would be that she does like plants and her scientific and philanthropic causes for environmental awareness.

 

[Darkness Falls]

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but there are some villians that could not work in nolans films

At the moment the only villians that i could see working
are

Two Face
Catwoman
Black Mask
Firefly
Riddler
Harley Quinn

 

[elgato]

poison ivy: a small character, a botanist who is against global contamination and plant extintion. she buys a pheromone drug from the scarecrow

robin: alfred's little bird t:

the riddler: a worldwide known hacker, he works for the mob. until he betrayes them

 

[Artistsean]

Poison Ivy could work, she may not be a huge character but she does fit:

Similar to Scarecrow, Poison Ivy uses chemicals and poisons she mixes in her own lab to target corporations and rich businessmen she sees as destroying the planet. Maybe she is half insane, thinking she is the embodyment of Mother Earth. She also creates and mutates hybrid plant creatures (but nothing that walks or kills for her.) Maybe this is a side project,
or maybe she is creating plants that can survive in any environment and are hard to kill, and grow fast.
(Perhaps thats parrt of her bigger plan, suddenly Gothem is becoming over run by plants that wont stop grown and destoying concrete and parts of the city.)

She works.

Scarecrow used a chemical made from a plant to make people hillucinate, Poison Ivy can be a scientist who does something similar with poison plants and maybe genetically altered plants to survive better. (but no mutation in her, turning her into a plant, and no mutant plants that walk and/or do her bidding)

 

[jmc]

Catwoman - history and background remain unchanged, however, catsuit outfit would have to be redesign to something a little more subtle.

Riddler - Suffers from an obsessive compulsive disorder where by he has to leave Riddles at the crime scene. Costume wise, no outfit with mask and question marks all over it, instead dark green trench coat and dark glasses. The only questions mark would appear on his walking cane which he needs to help him walk.

Harley Quinn - crazed Joker fan, sees him as the ultimate bad boy and loves the thrill of crime. She would be a much darker version of the character. Costume wouldn't be a 1-piece spandex outfit. See my deviant art for concept.

Penguin - Gangster with an umbrella obsession, not much need be changed here except I'd make him a little older than usual, maybe late 40's early 50's.

Poison Ivy - Former biologist who after being tortured with various toxins develops an immunity to all poisons and becomes a hired assassin (not my idea, but I like it!). Outfit would be primarily a deep green assassins outfit and her skin colour very pale.

Mr Freeze - Tricky one but you could have him suffer from and extreme case of photosensitivity (allergy to heat and sunlight). Turns to working for the mob to help fund his research into finding a cure for his ill wife who is cryogenically frozen. Costume would also be tricky, some sort of modified hazmat suit perhaps.

Robin - Another tricky one, I'll get back to you on this one... t:

Batgirl - Easier to work than Robin in my opinion. Gordon's niece Barbara, early-mid 20's, black belt martial arts champions, sees the Batman as an inspiration, decides to wage her own war against crime in Gotham in the guise of Batgirl, much to Bruce's objections. Costume starts of as just a leather suit and mask, but gets an upgrade by Bruce after he reluctantly needs her at the end.

 

[Artistsean]

Batman wouldn't have any sidekicks or partners, not in the movie anyway, and especially not younger ones. He would have allies (spelling?0 and team ups, Allfred is as far as he would go I think.

But I had an idea for an Ultimate Batman story,
instead of adopting a young child after his parents were killed,
Allfred sees Bruce sink deeper and deeper into the darkness of being Batman. In an attempt to bring Bruce out of it, and maybe move on a little, Allfred signs Bruce up for a Big Brother type program.
The young man is named Dick Grayson, his parents died in a circus accident. (he is still a circus proformer in this version).
Bruce is very apposed to this, but after seeing the similarities between him and Grayson Bruce reluctantly goes along with it.

but the Robin part comes in when an enemy finds out who Bruce really is, or something along those lines, someone like the Joker lets say. He attacks Grayson nearly killing him.
Batman is able to stop the villian, but now Grayson is forever in harms way. He teaches Grayson how to fight and survive (sort of Batman training).
But only to be used as defense, not to become a vigilantee.
That part comes later when Grayson finds out his parents were murdered, he steals some Bat weapons and stuff and goes out after the killer, only to be stopped by Batman. But I guess from there he is Robin or something.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I'd put a trench coat over banes usual getup in alot of scenes, one like hellboys.

 

[Artistsean]

Unfortuntately, It is true that some characters couldn't fit in Nolan's Batman world.
Some characters would have to be changed beyond recognition.
And some just wouldn't make sence.

Like the Vantriloquest, I couldn't imagin him fitting in the Nolan Batman world. Maybe he could, and I just can't think of how.
Clay Face (not sure either) but he seems to far fetched an idea.

From what we know about Nolan's Batman World thus far, with Batman, Ras, Scarecrow, Falcone, Joker (and the various other mobsters), and the possible upcoming Two-Face,
It looks like Nolan is keeping the Rogues gallery very human and very powerless (non super human).
I think Firefly, Panguin, Riddler, (For Sure) Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Black Mask, maybe even Killer Croc, and maybe Mr. Freeze. (I might be missing some).

Ras, was one of the most far fetched (almost, maybe not the most). He was a man who lived forever because of a Lazuris Pit. The element was changed to simply passing the name and title down to another and using decoys.
Which ones do you think wouldn't fit at all as they are right now, and what small detail could be changed to make them fit (at least fit better)?

For example: Killer Croc, take away the reptile like scales and turn that into a skin condition (like a dissease almost) and he would fit. He would just be a very big guy with razor sharp teeth that he maybe got implanted. His personality wouldn't be changed at all.
Firefly, take away the jet pack glyder and he would fit really well. Maybe change it to something a little more believable (Batman used batlike glyder wings in the Beggins).

 

[Valorman]

Batman wouldn't have any sidekicks or partners, not in the movie anyway, and especially not younger ones. He would have allies (spelling?0 and team ups, Allfred is as far as he would go I think.

But I had an idea for an Ultimate Batman story,
instead of adopting a young child after his parents were killed,
Allfred sees Bruce sink deeper and deeper into the darkness of being Batman. In an attempt to bring Bruce out of it, and maybe move on a little, Allfred signs Bruce up for a Big Brother type program.
The young man is named Dick Grayson, his parents died in a circus accident. (he is still a circus proformer in this version).
Bruce is very apposed to this, but after seeing the similarities between him and Grayson Bruce reluctantly goes along with it.

but the Robin part comes in when an enemy finds out who Bruce really is, or something along those lines, someone like the Joker lets say. He attacks Grayson nearly killing him.
Batman is able to stop the villian, but now Grayson is forever in harms way. He teaches Grayson how to fight and survive (sort of Batman training).
But only to be used as defense, not to become a vigilantee.
That part comes later when Grayson finds out his parents were murdered, he steals some Bat weapons and stuff and goes out after the killer, only to be stopped by Batman. But I guess from there he is Robin or something.

read my previous post, at least then someone will have.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

I would really like Nolan re-working Bane...him in Batman & Robin was horrible...him being just a huge hit-man that's hyped on drugs and possibly a new kind of drug that his him hooked to wires and what not, like a liquid version of steroids called 'venom' could work in Nolan's Batman-verse. Especially since the mob/mafia is a big part of these Batman movies. Him working for Two-Face could work easily.

 

[GL1]

The Mr. Freeze redesign is teh AWESOME, obviously...

i think robin could work, IF you use him right.

to have robin work you NEED to build on bruce's guilt.

Dick grayson's a 17 year old member of the flying graysons, a high-flying family of trapease artists, and the circuse's main attraction.then theirs the death, murder, yada yada yada you know that part. the big differince is, bruce didint come to enjoy the show, he CAME to observe boss Zucco, but is using the guise of bruce wayne as his simplistic disguise (guess it's a perk of the duel idenity thing.) Zucco, in my mind, would be another mobster in the long line of those attempting to fill the criminal void left by batman. The ringmaster (guessing he owns the circus) is in major debt with zucco, and, as a result of NOT paying him, zucco decides to cut his best act short. maybe they have some kind of history together that makes zucco hate him that much more, not sure.

Bruce, in the auidence, is actualy the one who runs over to save grayson. leaping amidst the chaos and catching him with a tuck-and-roll. but it's too late for his parents.

Bruce, carrying an unconcious dick grayson outside, runs him over to a crew of paramedics while he run's and quickly don's his batman garb "brought it with him VIA limo...and alfred" and chases down the murderers and Zucco, but Zucco get's away. Later, gordon meets batman on their roof, and they talk about what's happend. gordon explains that grayson has noone, and the orphanages in gotham are beyond cruel, everyone knows it, so he's scared for the boy, especialy with all the attention he'll be getting due to the media blitz about the crazyness of the whole thing. The Bat leaves, and visits grayson in the hospital, with alfred beside him. alfred ask's him what he is thinking, and bruce decides to let dick stay untill everything blows over, give the boy time to heal until he can move on, no one is sure how, but bruce isint making this temporary, not with the life he leads.

basicaly, the idea is to have dick be taken in by bruce, not as a ward, but just as someone who cares, something he knew his FATHER would do if put under the same situation.

Dick has fallen into a deep depression, and bruce, struggling over how this affects his life, is having a hard time being there for the boy. Alfred however, is picking up some slack, and enjoys graysons humor and charm. he's a smart kid, going through a very hard time, but he's still who he is at the end of the day, and we can see little moments of that when he lets himself out of his darkness.

i would build bruces relationship from there, maybe something to do with dick going missing, and bruce finding him at the spot where his parents died. bruce, from here on in "with a little encouraging from alfred" would solve this problem in his own way, by bringing justice to the grayson case.

a KEY point in the story would involve a raid at wayne mansion by zucco and his boys, pissed off at dick grayson for the unwanted attention he's getting (by batman, by a leak in the media saying he's a prime suspect in this murder, and by gordon, who somehow knows more than he should, considdering zucco's paying big to keep gotham's finest in the dark). zucco's boy's barge in, and during this time batman isint present to stop their actions. they come in and hurt alfred, badly. and begin looking for the boy. grayson makes a daring attempt to escape, but is eventualy caught, and left hurt aswell, possibly with a broken leg, something close to that. alfred, with his badass michaelcainery, winds up suprising the man attempting to kill dick, and takes him out.(not to dinner, if you're wondering.) and, in a desperate attempt to escape, takes the injured dick(hehe) into the safest place he knows, the batcave. he proceedes to call bruce and tell him to get his arse back, because really, he kinnddaa need's to be there.

once the men are done with, and everyone's had time to heal, bruce decides it's necessary to have a bigggg talk with grayson. realising dick can't go anywhere else now, bruce takes him in, 1: to keep an eye on him, and 2: to train him, not as a FUTURE PARTNER or anything, but to prevent him from being hurt when bruce isint there. he realises that dick has become a big part of his life now, and he isint going to let people exploit that and ruin the mission. besides, he can't have a 17 year old orphan who know's his secret out in the open, it makes him a loose end bruce really can't have.

well, cutting the last bit short, i though dick would become robin of his own accord, maybe after a few months/a year or so of training. not meaning that he's just as GOOD as batman after a few months, but enough for him to kick some ass on the outside when needed. Dick becomes somewhat like a younger oracle during this time, relaying information to bruce VIA the computer when necessary. better to have two people relaying information than one (so alfred and dick are perhaps, both on stand-by if bruce needs anything). during a time where alfreds needed with bruce during a high-risk infiltration (like a major gathering of richie riches with another person who needs watching over, like a talia al-ghul thing or something.) danger could insue, and, as a result of being cut off with communication, dick decides to do the "right thing" and steals a ton of equiptment (thinking some prototype armor, or his training outfit maybe? some high tech gauntlets, a retractable staff, an old belt from one of bruces suits and like, a red hoodie over it, and perhaps some goggles) then heads out on a bat-pod to save his new family, or at least help them.

"Robin" would be successful, but that wouldint matter, and bruce would be furious that dick even attempted something so insane. dick admits that he see's himself being partners with bruce, wanted to help take out guys like zucco so he doesint need to worry that more people like him are getting hurt on the outside. bruce, being who he is, refuses entirely, and decides the entire thing was a mistake, he takes actions to have dick transfered out of gotham and with a family he believes will be good for grayson. dick, who will have none of this, run's away, leaving no trail of where he's going or even giving any warning to his wereabouts. bruce looses him, and struggles over the reality of letting anyone into his life, he feels the pain he felt when loosing his parents (maybe not to the same degree. but similar). and never really get's over his failure, but, again, utilizes that pain and put's it into his mission, much like his fear of bats or the pain of loosing his parents. in the end, robin here enhances batman, instead of hindering him, which i think a lot of people use as a reason to hate robin in the first place.


eventualy of course, these two would run into each other years later in bludhaven, dick, having kept with his training (but with applying his own athletics and ninjutsu with the gritty, streetfighting of his new home) has now become nightwing, which bruce objects to, but seeing him gives him a sense of closure, and their relationship may eventualy become less strained over time.

just thought it'd be a cool idea. maybe dick even changes his name to jason todd when he leaves, during his years as a broke and near-homeless crimefighter in a worse city than gotham. and returns to "dick grayson" when he decides to join the police academy at 20.

any thoughts are welcome.

This is a GREAT story idea, and I like a lot of parts of it, especially the emotional heart, which could work, and the unresolvedness of their relationship as opposed to a "Batman and Robin together forever" happy vibe, I think that's GREAT.

Imho, your story breaks down in four places, which I've bolded and will attempt to elaborate on.

1) You break from working canon.
There's really no reason for Bruce to catch Dick, or for Dick to be Jason Todd or other changes that conflict with the mythos without adding to it.

2) Not enough training
Even with two years of training, a 17 year old kid is not going to be capable of street fighting dependably. You can get a good black belt in two years, sure, but that won't prepare you for guns and dirty fighting, this is addition to all the other things Dick would have to be good at to be an effective vigilante. Two years is not enough time to be able to kick some ass on the outside when needed. Bruce Travelled the world for seven, not counting any conventional fighting during college and he STILL barely survives his fights. There's no way "A few months" of training is going to mean diddly squat.

3) Bruce never has a good excuse to bring Grayson in
No matter how it's been sliced, the idea of a Batman taking in Grayson without it being forced upon him is... forced. Bruce is not a kid person... he does not have time effort energy or desire to take care of a kid on any basis, and the hardest part of making a realistic Robin story is WHY does Bruce take this kid in, even temporarily. Bruce, logically, should realize he's not in a position to help the kid, and so should everyone else around him.

4) Wait... what equipment??
Yeah, all those gadgets are cool, but just like it took Batman a few weeks to get all his crap together, it's not consistent to have cool Grayson-sized items hanging around the batcave just waiting to be used. A retractable staff? How is that even possible in real life?

Also... it's hard to imagine that all being in one movie, and if it were, it would be a Robin movie, not a Batman one.

So, yeah, the emotional heart is awesome, but translating Robin, especially the reasoning for his adoption is HARD work.

As you said, Build in Bruce's guilt... if Batman fails to catch one of Zucco's cronies, the one who cuts the wire, then Bruce can feel responsible for Grayson in some way. When you add in your idea of Grayson being a witness that needs to be protected, and won't be protected by corrupt Gotham police, then Bruce HAS to keep the kid, doesn't he? At least for now.

Like you said build up the bonding as Grayson and Alfred do a comedy scene together and Bruce helps Grayson deal with something... I think the running away thing is a nice touch. It's occasionally told that Batman finds Grayson and ends up revealing his identity to calm the hysterical kid down. I thought that could still work, though something tells me it could be improved. This would prompt Bruce training Grayson at first so that Grayson can deal with his anger.

Note: NONE of this requires Dick be older than 12-14... he could even conceivably be 9 or 10. This means that right here in the movie you could put a training montage as you switch to the 15-17 year old actor. This makes Robin's skills CREDIBLE, and keeps the comics origin intact and now, far more believable.

So then you come to 'the moment of truth.' Batman is in trouble, Alfred is busy, incapacitated, away or just old and help is needed. What should be done?

Well first, the costume has to be MAKESHIFT. Making armor and weapons for a 16 year old kid is, clearly guys, out of the question. Take his training outfit, and put a red vest on it to hold stuff. In theory, Richard could have made his golden R symbol shuriken on the same machine that Bamtan made his batarangs on... and would have been allowed to do so as part of his training, that could be his "R" on his red vest over his black training duds. Batman has no reason to invent a retractable staff, high tech gauntlets or whatever. Again, if it can't be explained makeshift, it kinda has to be left out. Goggles and stealing the Batpod can stay, though something tells me that there would be some sort of security on these things specifically to prevent Grayson from taking them.

Why can't the kid just use his dirtbike... perhaps an Christmas present that he found out where it was hidden? I think him taking the bus would be hilarious.

But, go with me here, just for a minute.

What if Robin doesn't fight?

Really... what if Robin isn't a sidekick, per se, as much as a recon man and mesenger. What if Robin spends his free running acrobatic skills watching Batman's back, much to Batman's shagrin, but ends up saving Batman's life simply by telling him what to look out for... by being an infiltrator as opposed to a 16-18 year old ninja-boy who can whoop up on men three times his size? (Unrealistic, no matter how you slice it... If he was a MASTER at a decent martial art (Muy Thai, Kung Fu, Akkido), an accomplishment which takes ten and more years of dedicated practice, sure, but as a kid with a few dozen martial arts moves? It's just not dependable...

Let Robin's action climax be a free running style chase scene with MAYBE one fight against one opponent... say... an aging Zucco... now THAT'S storytelling!

And if you really want to make a mess, put in the Killer Croc described in this thread as a rival for Zucco, an ex-circus freak turned gangster or an enforcer for Zucco. (I know it conflicts wit the idea, but Killer Croc as a main baddies is a little off). I would say turn Zucco into Killer Croc, but... nah!

 

[Artistsean]

I really like your ideas for Robin, alot of it makes perfect sence why he would be there.
I would make some minro changes but its stuff like (I think) the Robin costume should be his training outfit, and thats why its colorful and stuff. Thats why its mostly black with red and green.
I do like the idea of Grayson being more of an Oracle and a recon guy than a fighter. He could also be a child protedgy. Some young man who in the right family would have been already in in High school or college depending on his age.
I like the idea of Bruce teaching martial arts as a way to help Grayson deal with his anger and all that. Alot of it would work.
I just don't know, still, if it would work in a movie.
Robin is a hard character, originally he was introduced as nothing more than a ploy to bring in younger viewers. Its hard to justify in Nolan's Batman why he would bring in anyone as another Batman type vigilantee, let along bring in a kid.

I had some ideas on Killer Croc too.

I saw this commercial about this tribe, I think, where they scar themselves with razor blades as a right of passage. The scars look like Crocodile scales,

Here is a pictures, although I don't know if its what the commercial was talking about.
WARNING, this might be too shocking for some of you.

Spoiler

Well along with the Killer Croc idea already mentioned what if the skin condition was actually him scaring himself, him trying to prove he is a man sort of thing. You know, along with the tatoo across his throat and the other tatoos and maybe some peircings or inplants (like fake or filed sharp teeth).


Also I need to correct an idea, don't know if I posted it here but maybe I did. Maybe it needs no correction, I don't know.
If Edward Nashton, or the Riddler, felt compelled to leave clues of his crimes or commit them in a pattern or way that would leave clues
would that be considered Asperger's Syndrome or OCD?
Which one would make Edward feel compelled to do them? Because when I thought about the Riddler doing them because of something like that it was because of the episode of Law and Order: Criminal Intent where Mark Linn-Baker guest starred as a killer who kills in a specific pattern or leaves clues because of his Asperger's and not OCD.

 

[GL1]

On Riddler:
Definitely Aspergers... definitely.

On Robin:
I feel you on the Robin thing, and I could kinda see a green training uniform with a red vest and a bat belt instead... I don't like it much because I can't explain the stealth of it... but it is more classic, and seeing it on screen for the first time would be uber. I don't think I would buy the "colorful" training uniform, because none of the training uniforms I've ever seen are colorful, and I'd know they just chose those colors because it's Robin's costume... it wouldn't be believable - at least for me.

I agree that Bruce bringing in a kid vigilante is rediculous... what most people try to do is have Bruce bring in Grayson for other reasons, Grayson goes vigilante on his own and Bruce is mad, but he's impressed so he lets him keep going.

I think that's also forced, which is why I loved that first idea I quoted, because Bruce never relents like "Okay, you can be Robin and fight by my side" No... you're done. Period. I think that's why a lot of people want an 18 year old Robin as well, so that it would make sense for Bruce NOT to bar him from fighting. I think that's weak.

There's a really great line in my version between Bruce and Alfred, who questions things partway through the training (perhaps leading into the montage) and Bruce says: "I'm not training a partner, Alfred... I don't exactly need a sidekick... (pause as they watch Dick focused on whooping up on some practice dummy)... I'm training my replacement."

On Robin's Origin:
Also, Robin wasn't a "ploy"... he was a pretty well thought out vicarious avatar for young readers, like Richie Foley for white kids who watch Static Shock or Movie Wolverine for people who didn't know about X-Men... they bring a perspective similar to the desired audience, in Robin's case... kids. I think we know he's grown past that, and I don't think that we apply similar standards on other characters with equally dubious original purposes.

Final on Robin
That said, I think Grayson's "daring rebellious move" would simply involve some free running, spying and home aloneish non-combat type techniques on unsuspecting thugs. I still see him as more physical and comedic (like Lucius Fox is comedic) than a smart-kid, cuz, y'know, he's still Dick Grayson, even though he's adapted for a movie, and if he's not doing field work, then it makes training him on something other than the computer a dead end... it makes the fact that he's already an incredible acrobat at eight years old useless...

If Grayson isn't out in the field, then his character is invalidated, basically... BUT if Grayson isn't in combat (more than, y'know, that one time), and furthermore, isn't even given permission to be outside, then Batman isn't invalidated or made to look irresponsible either.

I now also have this one scene where Grayson goes to answer the Bat signal when Batman can't make it. It involves Barbara Gordon bursting onto the roof like in Dark Victory... muahaha!

But that's my fave character... perhaps we should move onto others...

On Poison Ivy:
I can't figure out Poison Ivy... without her plant-control, she is almost completely a non-threat... even as an advanced botanist with poisons and etcetera at her disposal...

Well... I take that back... she couldn't be less threatening than Scarecrow, huh? Still she seems like she would be useless outside of her plant-laden lair... though... I guess she could deliver plants with various effects to others... that would be a weird string of murders, huh?

 

[Darkfly]

Everybody in Gotham City(inculding the villians) are actually aliens from a race who can their change their appearance's at will and its all a Truman Show styled environment testing their subject Bruce Wayne on how he would react to his Parents being killed so coldy at such a young age, though Catwoman is the only other real Human in Gotham City and thats why they share so much in common and connect so well.

 

[jeff vader]

that picture of the guy with the scars is literally the most disgusting thing i have ever seen, and will haunt my nightmares forever. No joke i feel very sick.

 

[Artistsean]

sorry, I put it in spoilers but I guess I should have worned everyone more. I will do so now.

 

[Valorman]

The Mr. Freeze redesign is teh AWESOME, obviously...



This is a GREAT story idea, and I like a lot of parts of it, especially the emotional heart, which could work, and the unresolvedness of their relationship as opposed to a "Batman and Robin together forever" happy vibe, I think that's GREAT.

Imho, your story breaks down in four places, which I've bolded and will attempt to elaborate on.

1) You break from working canon.
There's really no reason for Bruce to catch Dick, or for Dick to be Jason Todd or other changes that conflict with the mythos without adding to it.

2) Not enough training
Even with two years of training, a 17 year old kid is not going to be capable of street fighting dependably. You can get a good black belt in two years, sure, but that won't prepare you for guns and dirty fighting, this is addition to all the other things Dick would have to be good at to be an effective vigilante. Two years is not enough time to be able to kick some ass on the outside when needed. Bruce Travelled the world for seven, not counting any conventional fighting during college and he STILL barely survives his fights. There's no way "A few months" of training is going to mean diddly squat.

3) Bruce never has a good excuse to bring Grayson in
No matter how it's been sliced, the idea of a Batman taking in Grayson without it being forced upon him is... forced. Bruce is not a kid person... he does not have time effort energy or desire to take care of a kid on any basis, and the hardest part of making a realistic Robin story is WHY does Bruce take this kid in, even temporarily. Bruce, logically, should realize he's not in a position to help the kid, and so should everyone else around him.

4) Wait... what equipment??
Yeah, all those gadgets are cool, but just like it took Batman a few weeks to get all his crap together, it's not consistent to have cool Grayson-sized items hanging around the batcave just waiting to be used. A retractable staff? How is that even possible in real life?

Also... it's hard to imagine that all being in one movie, and if it were, it would be a Robin movie, not a Batman one.

So, yeah, the emotional heart is awesome, but translating Robin, especially the reasoning for his adoption is HARD work.

As you said, Build in Bruce's guilt... if Batman fails to catch one of Zucco's cronies, the one who cuts the wire, then Bruce can feel responsible for Grayson in some way. When you add in your idea of Grayson being a witness that needs to be protected, and won't be protected by corrupt Gotham police, then Bruce HAS to keep the kid, doesn't he? At least for now.

Like you said build up the bonding as Grayson and Alfred do a comedy scene together and Bruce helps Grayson deal with something... I think the running away thing is a nice touch. It's occasionally told that Batman finds Grayson and ends up revealing his identity to calm the hysterical kid down. I thought that could still work, though something tells me it could be improved. This would prompt Bruce training Grayson at first so that Grayson can deal with his anger.

Note: NONE of this requires Dick be older than 12-14... he could even conceivably be 9 or 10. This means that right here in the movie you could put a training montage as you switch to the 15-17 year old actor. This makes Robin's skills CREDIBLE, and keeps the comics origin intact and now, far more believable.

So then you come to 'the moment of truth.' Batman is in trouble, Alfred is busy, incapacitated, away or just old and help is needed. What should be done?

Well first, the costume has to be MAKESHIFT. Making armor and weapons for a 16 year old kid is, clearly guys, out of the question. Take his training outfit, and put a red vest on it to hold stuff. In theory, Richard could have made his golden R symbol shuriken on the same machine that Bamtan made his batarangs on... and would have been allowed to do so as part of his training, that could be his "R" on his red vest over his black training duds. Batman has no reason to invent a retractable staff, high tech gauntlets or whatever. Again, if it can't be explained makeshift, it kinda has to be left out. Goggles and stealing the Batpod can stay, though something tells me that there would be some sort of security on these things specifically to prevent Grayson from taking them.

Why can't the kid just use his dirtbike... perhaps an Christmas present that he found out where it was hidden? I think him taking the bus would be hilarious.

But, go with me here, just for a minute.

What if Robin doesn't fight?

Really... what if Robin isn't a sidekick, per se, as much as a recon man and mesenger. What if Robin spends his free running acrobatic skills watching Batman's back, much to Batman's shagrin, but ends up saving Batman's life simply by telling him what to look out for... by being an infiltrator as opposed to a 16-18 year old ninja-boy who can whoop up on men three times his size? (Unrealistic, no matter how you slice it... If he was a MASTER at a decent martial art (Muy Thai, Kung Fu, Akkido), an accomplishment which takes ten and more years of dedicated practice, sure, but as a kid with a few dozen martial arts moves? It's just not dependable...

Let Robin's action climax be a free running style chase scene with MAYBE one fight against one opponent... say... an aging Zucco... now THAT'S storytelling!

And if you really want to make a mess, put in the Killer Croc described in this thread as a rival for Zucco, an ex-circus freak turned gangster or an enforcer for Zucco. (I know it conflicts wit the idea, but Killer Croc as a main baddies is a little off). I would say turn Zucco into Killer Croc, but... nah!

i whole-heartedly agree with what you've said. a lot of what i came up with needed work, and i think you came up with something a lot more plausable and definetly more realistic.

and i DEFINETLY love the idea of robin saving batman inadvertantly, perhaps with a fight against zucco thrown in. definetly top notch!

 

[GL1]

Thanks... it occurred to me as I was wrapping up that Robin has to fight someone... and one fight, where Robin gets caught and is forced to face off against Zucco or Killer Croc makes prime sense, and doesn't cause Batman to be a negligent or Robin to be a grown man (and therefore devoid of emotional point)

 

[Black Zodak]

I would love to see Mr Freeze, as he is my favorite character. There are ways you could adapt the character. Lose the freeze suit. Perhaps he is called Freeze because, after losing his wife, he is frozen inside. He feels nothing except a desire to bring his wife back.

As for the freeze gun, lose the "freeze beam" gun and replace with a gun that fires darts (filled with liquid nitrogen).