The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

A troll is someone who basically posts inflammatory messages to get a rise out of other users. It’s like if I brought up the entire permawhite argument again. Or said Batman is for losers.

I see what your going with as far as Mr. Freeze, but remember it was TAS that gave us the compelling back story to the character that we all know and love today, not the comics.
 
The animated series is a relevant source for Freeze so it doesnt matter where the backstory came from
 
Fans want to see new villains, not rehashed ones from the 90's. Two-face and the Joker are two central characters that needed to be portrayed, Batman should be the focus of the next film. Begins was a smash hit with two relatively unknown bad guys. We should worry about the plot before villains.
 
Ok, thats a troll. Thank you. But, I still think that Mr. Freeze could fit into and work well in this next movie.
 
Fans want to see new villains, not rehashed ones from the 90's. Two-face and the Joker are two central characters that needed to be portrayed, Batman should be the focus of the next film. Begins was a smash hit with two relatively unknown bad guys. We should worry about the plot before villains.

Freeze was a villain portrayed badly. Most rumor talk is about Catwoman, Riddler, and Penguin. What then? Stupid rehashes or accuracte depictions? I say the latter.
 
That's a matter of opinion. What we all should be working on is a general story arc to restore Batman as the guardian of Gotham.
 
The thing that I missed most about TDK was the father/son relationship between the Joker and Batman. Batman created the Joker, and not alluding to that fact was a plain insult to the fans. Two-face was essentially the bad guy in TDK and Nolan could use the Red Hood to encompass the vital relationship between our protagonist and antagonists. Bane could be a secondary villain like Scarecrow in BB, but the man behind the scenes, Red Hood, could be the real puppet master.

Where was it ever stated that Batman created the Joker?
 
Fans want to see new villains, not rehashed ones from the 90's. Two-face and the Joker are two central characters that needed to be portrayed, Batman should be the focus of the next film. Begins was a smash hit with two relatively unknown bad guys. We should worry about the plot before villains.

What fans? You?

I would say most people I've talked too want to see Catwoman, Riddler and Pengiun re-done.
 
What fans? You?

I would say most people I've talked too want to see Catwoman, Riddler and Pengiun re-done.

Most people want to see an entertaining movie more than a film centered around a bad guy's gimmick. I think the plot is much more vital. LOL.
 
Um have you ever read a Batman comic past issue #168 of Detective Comics?

Oh boy...

Yes... :whatever:

It was NEVER stated for a fact, only speculation. Go read the Joker's bio on the DC comics website for god sake...

And before you go off about origins:

In Batman: The Killing Joke, Alan Moore wrote an alternate origin of the Joker, and thus the Red Hood; the man who would become the Joker is portrayed as a former chemical engineer, now a struggling stand-up comedian with a pregnant wife. Approached by the Red Hood gang to lead a raid of his former workplace, the Ace Chemical plant, he accepts, in order to make enough money to start a better life for his family. The gang gives him the costume of the Red Hood, which has been worn by many men before - this way, the gang is able to falsely identify the Red Hood as their leader on all the crimes they perform, with the police unaware that a different dupe is behind the hood every time. The day of the proposed robbery, however, police inform him that his wife died in a freak accident. He attempts to back out of the robbery, but the gang strong-arms him into keeping his commitment to them. During the robbery, the plant's security men spot the intruders and shoot the other criminals dead. The engineer tries to flee, but Batman appears and corners him on the plant's catwalk. Terrified, he jumps off the catwalk into the chemical basin to escape. As in the previous origin story, he goes insane after discovering what the chemicals have done to his face, and becomes the Joker. Strangely enough, the Joker himself was reluctant to admit that this iteration of his story was definitive, stating: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

The way The Joker's origin was presented in TDK was exactlly the way it should be, surrounded in mystery and left up to the viewer to decide the outcome.
 
Batman 3 Villians

these are the only 3 I would be interested in seeing, and could continue the same dynamic, concept and drive that the past 2 Nolan films have had. I don't want Catwoman in any other Bat film. No one could top Michelle Pfeffier anyhow. Don't want the Black Hood, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, because then it starts to border on absurd, even though Nolan would do good...I don't want to see Nolan's 3rd film become Spiderman 3 like.


Due to increasing escalation, as said by Gordon in BB, and realized in TDK, the trend continues in the third Batman film at an alarming rate.....as the Joker would say "the cities inhabitants are losing their minds".....

enter the Riddler who finally sees a worthy foe in Batman to play with.

The Riddler: (Johnny Depp, Guy Pierce, etc) Dark green suit and dark green bowler hat, dark purple or black dress shirt, green tie with single black question mark in the center of it. not sure on eye mask, but if it was, i would prefer to see a wrap around black eye mask.

(lead villian) now that Batman is on the run from the cops and considered a threat, the manhunt begins for his capture and to be brought to justice. Riddler, bored with his own life and looking for a challenge and a worthy competitor, seizes the opportunity and decides to turn Batman's "game" on Gotham, on himself, and the Riddler plays his own game with Batman. Tries to break Batman mentally essentially. We see even more of Batman's detective side and hopefully see Batman doing tests and trying to solve the riddles in the Batcave.


BANE: (unknown) boots, dark jeans, black shirt, mask or maybe not. device strapped to him that injects venom into his body.

(as much screentime as the Joker in TDK) Follows his origin from the comics, but different... however....seeing that Batman is on the run, and he sees a worthy adversary, Bane comes to town to take down the Batman and make a name for himself. Basically being a Bounty Hunter, like Dog the Bounty Hunter a bit, only smarter and tougher. Bane could start off as the good guy, in light of Batman being pegged as the villian, and Bane might even team up or get help from the Riddler, and then those roles of good and bad with Batman and Bane would get switched in the end, as the citizens see Batman, not as a criminal anymore, though they would still be cautious of him. As the Riddler tries to break Batman mentally, Bane would try to break him physically. The storyline could use traces of the Knightfall series as framework for his storyarc.


The Penguin: (Philip Seymour Hoffman)
Black suit, white dress shirt, grey waistcoat, black tie. No top hat, pointed nose or the one eye glasses (i forgot what it was called)

He would be in a Falcone, Lau, Maroni role, only larger. Shrewd CEO of a Weapons Defense Company. He would come across like the character he played in Mission Impossible 3, only darker. He would be like Tony Stark initially was in the Iron Man movie on his reasonings for why his company does what it does, but he is more like the Jeff Bridges character in the same movie, dealing secretly with the mobs, gangs, terrorist organizations, rogue military groups, etc, selling them weapons to make additional profit. For everything Wayne Enterprises embodies, the Penguin's company is the complete opposite. For the most part Bruce Wayne and Lucius Fox take on the Penguin, until the end when Batman takes him down.

The only reason he is called the Penguin is because he is always wearing the same black suit, white shirt, black tie.
 
Fans want to see new villains, not rehashed ones from the 90's. Two-face and the Joker are two central characters that needed to be portrayed, Batman should be the focus of the next film. Begins was a smash hit with two relatively unknown bad guys. We should worry about the plot before villains.

I actually designed a way to come up with the most efficient villains (IMHO) to help the character of Batman develope in this new installment. No plot specifics, no resolutions, no casting choices... just how they would affect Batman, his world and the themes of the story:

http://forums.superherohype.com/sho...light=rachel+relationship+anchor#post15477742

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=15477865&highlight=economic#post15477865

Tell me what you think. But I agree with you, first comes the Batman and his story, THEN selecting and shaping the villains so they work better to make his character developement progress.

That's what Nolan did with his Joker. His first thought was "We have an universe now, so how would the Joker fit into this world... let's see". We should be doing that too.
 
Most people want to see an entertaining movie more than a film centered around a bad guy's gimmick. I think the plot is much more vital. LOL.

You act like you can only have either a good story or a crazy villian. You can most certainly have both.
 
I don't want to see Nolan's 3rd film become Spiderman 3 like.

If you think about it, TDK had more 'villains' in the actual movie than Spider-Man 3 did. ANd TDK did a lot better job than SM3. I think that Nolan will do fine.

TDK had The Joker, Two-Face, Sal Maroni,The Chechen,Gambol,The Rest of the Mafia and various mobsters, and even a small cameo by the Scarecrow, not to mention Batman taking on the dark side of who he must become "to stop men like [The Joker]" and all were evenly displayed in the film (With the Joker basically running and stealing the show. All other were pretty much evened out)

Spider-Man 3 only had The New Goblin, Sandman and then Venom. Oh, and Spider-Man also taking on the dark side of his personality (due to the symbiote)

Either way, Nolan knows how to even things out and make a mess into a terrific movie, that is well organized and that people want to see. So, I think that The Riddler, Catwoman, Mr. Freeze, Oswald Cobblepot, and Rupert Thorne, with possibly the rising mafia and new mobsters (i.e. Gabol and the Chechen) and Batman, Gordon, the Police, the overall theme of the movie and everything else that this film needs and deserves will all be evenly displayed with each gaining a good amount of screen time. Who knows, maybe even Harvey Two-Face will appear. :woot:
 
i think nolan will do more but do you think warner bros will ask him to set up future villains like mr. freeze and the penguin? have freeze be a scientist/alley and at the end have him lose his wife in an accident that sort of thing.
 
Oh boy...

Yes... :whatever:

It was NEVER stated for a fact, only speculation. Go read the Joker's bio on the DC comics website for god sake...

And before you go off about origins:

In Batman: The Killing Joke, Alan Moore wrote an alternate origin of the Joker, and thus the Red Hood; the man who would become the Joker is portrayed as a former chemical engineer, now a struggling stand-up comedian with a pregnant wife. Approached by the Red Hood gang to lead a raid of his former workplace, the Ace Chemical plant, he accepts, in order to make enough money to start a better life for his family. The gang gives him the costume of the Red Hood, which has been worn by many men before - this way, the gang is able to falsely identify the Red Hood as their leader on all the crimes they perform, with the police unaware that a different dupe is behind the hood every time. The day of the proposed robbery, however, police inform him that his wife died in a freak accident. He attempts to back out of the robbery, but the gang strong-arms him into keeping his commitment to them. During the robbery, the plant's security men spot the intruders and shoot the other criminals dead. The engineer tries to flee, but Batman appears and corners him on the plant's catwalk. Terrified, he jumps off the catwalk into the chemical basin to escape. As in the previous origin story, he goes insane after discovering what the chemicals have done to his face, and becomes the Joker. Strangely enough, the Joker himself was reluctant to admit that this iteration of his story was definitive, stating: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

The way The Joker's origin was presented in TDK was exactlly the way it should be, surrounded in mystery and left up to the viewer to decide the outcome.

You don’t need to lecture me on the ambiguous nature of the Joker’s origin. Maybe YOU should go back and look at every origin story about the Joker since February of 1951. In all of the origin stories the same basic story arc is used; Joker falls into a vat of chemicals because of Batman. His origin as said by Mister J is “multiple choice”, not fill in the blank. The only thing debatable is who the Joker was before the accident. Here is the wikipedia on the matter if you need to brush up on your Batman history.


The first origin account, Detective Comics #168 (February 1951), revealed that the Joker had once been a criminal known as the Red Hood. In the story, he was a scientist looking to steal from the company that employs him and adopts the persona of Red Hood. After committing the theft, which Batman thwarts, Red Hood falls into a vat of chemical waste. He emerges with bleached white skin, red lips, green hair, and a permanent grin.[15][16]
The most widely cited backstory, which the official DC Comics publication, Who's Who in the DC Universe, credits as the most widely believed account, can be seen in The Killing Joke. It depicts him as originally being an engineer at a chemical plant who quits his job to become a stand-up comedian, only to fail miserably. Desperate to support his pregnant wife, Jeannie, the man agrees to help two criminals break into the plant where he was formerly employed. In this version of the story, the Red Hood persona is given to the inside man of every job (thus it is never the same man twice); this makes the man appear to be the ringleader, allowing the two criminals to escape. During the planning, police contact him and inform him that his wife and unborn child have died in a household accident.[12][13]


The Joker emerges from chemical-ridden water and goes insane in The Killing Joke. Art by Brian Bolland.
Stricken with grief, he attempts to back out of the plan, but the criminals strong-arm him into keeping his promise. As soon as they enter the plant, however, they are immediately caught by security and a shoot-out ensues, in which the two criminals are killed. As the engineer tries to escape, he is confronted by Batman, who is investigating the disturbance. Terrified, the engineer leaps over a rail and plummets into a vat of chemicals. When he surfaces in the nearby reservoir, he removes the hood and sees his reflection: bleached chalk-white skin, ruby-red lips, and bright green hair. These events, coupled with his other misfortunes that day, drive the engineer completely insane, resulting in the birth of the Joker.[12][13]
The story "Pushback" (Batman: Gotham Knights # 50-55) supports part of this version of the Joker's origin story. In it, a witness (who coincidentally turns out to be Edward Nigma) recounts that the Joker's wife was kidnapped and murdered by the criminals in order to force the engineer into performing the crime. In this version, the pre-accident Joker is called Jack.[17]
The Paul Dini-Alex Ross story "Case Study" proposes a far different theory. This story suggests that the Joker was a sadistic gangster who worked his way up Gotham's criminal food chain until he was the leader of a powerful mob. Still seeking the thrills that dirty work allowed, he created the Red Hood identity for himself so that he could commit small-time crimes. Eventually, he had his fateful first meeting with Batman, resulting in his disfigurement. However, the story suggests that the Joker retained his sanity, and researched his crimes to look like the work of a sick mind in order to pursue his vendetta against Batman.
The latter origin is featured in the second arc of Batman Confidential (#7-12). This origin once more states his name as Jack, and eliminates the Red Hood identity. Bored with his work, Jack becomes obsessed with Batman, and crashes a museum ball to attract his attention. In doing so, he badly injures Lorna Shore (whom Bruce Wayne is dating). An enraged Batman disfigures his face with a batarang as he escapes. In retaliation, a furious Batman sells Jack out to mobsters whom he had crossed, who torture Jack in a disused chemical plant. Turning the tables, Jack kills several of his assailants, but falls into an empty vat. Wild gunfire punctures the chemical tanks above him, and the resultant flood of toxins alters his appearance to that of the Joker or a clown.[18]



So yeah, Batman created the Joker. Don’t get dense.
 
What's so special about Nolan's version is not just the more "realistic" way the villains look and their lack of cheesy gimmicks. It's the way how they fit into the stories. In a certain way I found BB's and TDK's Scarecrow and Joker more interesting and more menacing than their comics' counterparts. Nolan gave them more than a new look. He gave them new attributes who made them work in a movie for a grown-up audience.

By the way, I like the idea of the Riddler as a Zodiac type killer. He leaves riddles at the place of his murders signed with the alias "E. Nygma".
After a while the press just calls him "The Riddler". No green jacket, no hat, no tie with question marks. And, 'till the end of the movie, no idea who this guy really is.
 
Making Riddler a serial killer is a gross misinterpretation as opposed to Joker and Scarecrows which werent incredibly different.
 
I want to see the Goddamn Riddler played by the Goddamn Johnny Deep (Or Hugh Laurie or David Tennant).
But I want him to be different than the Joker, not a wannabe.
I'd like to see him as a very mysterious man, maybe a bit old kind of character, which writes words, numbers, codes round his body, but not the face. No suit, becasue that's Joker's. Maybe some kind of an old-man's coat, with a flip n flap kind of hat (green) without "?" on it (His hands would be covered by those).

The whole film starts about two0three weeks later where TDK finishes. Riddler doesn't believe in the whole "Bat-Murder" thing going on and keeps on writing riddles and sending them to the Police, Mayor, GC TV and etc. In the meen time we got a nother villain maybe Black Mask or even The Shark. That means there are gangsters in Gotham and Batman now struggels aswell as with them and the people, police which try to get rid of him. Next the riddler comes in to the game and what we see threw the whole movie (we keep thinking about stuff which in the end appears to be different) is a psychological effect played out by The Riddler.
 
Making Riddler a serial killer is a gross misinterpretation as opposed to Joker and Scarecrows which werent incredibly different.

You're absolutely right. But I liked the Zodiac type killer concept from the beginning. Someone in this forum came up with this idea. And I was thinking: "Yeah! Why not?"
But I know that this Riddler would have nothing in common with his comic counterpart. Besides the riddles.
 

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