The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Gianakin_]

I assume that you want a sequel with continuity and integral to the previous to movies... and a good reception from the audience. My particular (and weird, it seems) idea about common sense dictates me that.

And my particular idea about my opinion dictates otherwise.

Yeah, but story and character's appreciation are hindered when continuity and harmony are compromised.

Not in my book.

And I'e got news for you, Nolan has stated many times he never had a plan for a BB3. So, unless you consider him a liar, he is actually in the position to think of a story that can be tailored to the current conditions, so it can be as strong as possible.

I actually do consider him a liar, from a certain point of view.

Having a Joker with continuity is not an option anymore.

In your opinion.

See ya.

Yeah, you showed me.

 

[Gianakin_]

I completely agree with that notion. Completely.

I find it amusing that people are still thinking in "villain terms", like we were living in the Burton/Schumacher times.

Yes, a very sensibe way to me would be to make BB3 more about Batman's struggle again. Let's not forget that TDK's backbone was Dent and not Bruce/ Bats. If they shift the axis back to Batman, then they can dodge the bullet of topping the Joker (as in: bigger and better, which has ruined many sequels before) and still make the movie interesting and different than its predecessor, thus keeping the franchise fresh.

 

[Melkay]

The villain has to mirror or contrast with batman in someway.

Scarecrow mirrored Batmans use of scare tactics.

Ras Al Ghul had almost 180 degree sense of justice as Bruce

Joker is chaos, like Batman is to order

Batman and Two Face follow a similar path, a search for justice and a fall from grace. Batmans was symbolic to him but real to the people while Two Faces was real to himself but symbolic to batman.

Riddler can put the most pressure on batman using his intellectual skills to cath him, now that Batman is running away from the cops. So far, Batman has experienced the consequences of his acts upon others... now he needs to suffer the consequences of his acts upon himself, and Riddler can put the most pressure on him by trying to catching with traps that really put Bruce's life in jeopardy.

Catwoman, like Batman, is a rogue character, and they're both pursued by the cops, even when they're not villains... only that she's a criminal, and he's a vigilante, which is ideal for a tense love-hate relationship. Besides, their relationship would contrast his relationship with Rachel... Rachel was his anchor towards the Bruce persona, because she was pulling him to a stable life without a mask. Catwoman would be luring him to a life they both share, where nothing is stable, and there's always a mask. Catwoman is a catalyser for perpetuating the Batman persona.

Mr. Freeze is driven by anger and hate, and has blocked his emotions from getting to his only goal, to save his life. He's doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. He's very much like Batman, only he is willing to kill and his goal is far more personal. Bruce seeks to stop Freeze and redeem him... redemption being the thing he wants the most, and the thing he could never achieve with Harvey after he became a murderer. In the comics, Batman always tried to redeem Two-Face. Now that he can't, Freeze can be the one to be redeemed.

 

[HereToComment27]

Mr. Freeze is not too far fetched for Nolan's take on Batman. If the sonar-vision locking on to cell phones, or the microwave emitter is believable and niether are real things, then an exoskeleton suit and a liquid nitrogen gun (which are both real things) for Mr. Freeze could work fine.

Also, The Joker made TDK. Batman's decisions and everything that he did within the movie was because of how far the Joker pushed him. This next film needs to be the same way, to show that he is needed as a hero.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Riddler can put the most pressure on batman using his intellectual skills to cath him, now that Batman is running away from the cops. So far, Batman has experienced the consequences of his acts upon others... now he needs to suffer the consequences of his acts upon himself, and Riddler can put the most pressure on him by trying to catching with traps that really put Bruce's life in jeopardy.

Catwoman, like Batman, is a rogue character, and they're both pursued by the cops, even when they're not villains... only that she's a criminal, and he's a vigilante, which is ideal for a tense love-hate relationship. Besides, their relationship would contrast his relationship with Rachel... Rachel was his anchor towards the Bruce persona, because she was pulling him to a stable life without a mask. Catwoman would be luring him to a life they both share, where nothing is stable, and there's always a mask. Catwoman is a catalyser for perpetuating the Batman persona.

Mr. Freeze is driven by anger and hate, and has blocked his emotions from getting to his only goal, to save his life. He's doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. He's very much like Batman, only he is willing to kill and his goal is far more personal. Bruce seeks to stop Freeze and redeem him... redemption being the thing he wants the most, and the thing he could never achieve with Harvey after he became a murderer. In the comics, Batman always tried to redeem Two-Face. Now that he can't, Freeze can be the one to be redeemed.

Just to say, I wasnt looking for any of this, I meant only to depict how villains have to be focused through batman, just to be clear

As for that, with the exception of Freeze with redemption, I think you might have to go deeper thematically with Riddler and Catwoman. Catwoman doesnt have to work the thematic level necessarily since she works double duty as love interest and can fill a different cinematic need. Or Catwoman would work against the grain of the masked life. "Look how stupid she looks" Bruce reevalutated what it means to be a symbol. Catwoman could be a degenerate hero the likes of punk rock stars and Nightmare Before Christmas characters inspiring a new kind of youth

 

[HereToComment27]

As I stated before, I think that Freeze could be done realisticly and would serve well into the story of redemption.

 

[Melkay]

And my particular idea about my opinion dictates otherwise.

Well, you don't care about what most people think, obviously. After all, you're a Prequel Trilogy Defender

Not in my book.

Once again, you're more concerned of getting what you want and not what most people would receive well. Fans of the bat-nipples everywhere must have found inspiration in you. That's what I mean with going against common sense. have you noticed how much I like those words? common is the big word there.

I actually do consider him a liar, from a certain point of view.

Yet, you have no reason to believe that, the only evidence you've got is what the guy had to say, and you don't even believe him.
That's what I call "zealous religious faith". Nothing to do with common sense.

In your opinion.

Having a Rachel with continuity wasn't an option anymore, yet I don't want to compare the least popular character in the movies with the most popular one.

Yeah, you showed me.

Not really , but you still can be redeemed. Don't lose hope.

 

[Melkay]

Yes, a very sensibe way to me would be to make BB3 more about Batman's struggle again. Let's not forget that TDK's backbone was Dent and not Bruce/ Bats. If they shift the axis back to Batman, then they can dodge the bullet of topping the Joker (as in: bigger and better, which has ruined many sequels before) and still make the movie interesting and different than its predecessor, thus keeping the franchise fresh.

Amen, brother. You should put that in your signature.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Mr. Freeze is not too far fetched for Nolan's take on Batman. If the sonar-vision locking on to cell phones, or the microwave emitter is believable and niether are real things, then an exoskeleton suit and a liquid nitrogen gun (which are both real things) for Mr. Freeze could work fine.

Also, The Joker made TDK. Batman's decisions and everything that he did within the movie was because of how far the Joker pushed him. This next film needs to be the same way, to show that he is needed as a hero.

While I believe you about Freeze a number of fanboys and Nolan specifically would disagree. Nolans POV is a total assumption of course, but he seems not to want to stray to far from the course. I am almost certain that everyone who says Clayface and Freeze are unworkable in a Nolan movie would totally change their minds if Nolan ever decides to use them.

 

[HereToComment27]

Clayface, there is no realistic way that Clayface could be brought into Nolan's take on Batman. But I believe people will agree that Mr. Freeze really does need to be re-done and like I stated in my first post of how he could be realisticly used.

And I'm not sure if Nolan would disagree. He would have to think about all of his possibilities. And a realistic Mr. Freeze is one of them.

 

[Melkay]

Just to say, I wasnt looking for any of this, I meant only to depict how villains have to be focused through batman, just to be clear

As for that, with the exception of Freeze with redemption, I think you might have to go deeper thematically with Riddler and Catwoman. Catwoman doesnt have to work the thematic level necessarily since she works double duty as love interest and can fill a different cinematic need. Or Catwoman would work against the grain of the masked life. "Look how stupid she looks" Bruce reevalutated what it means to be a symbol. Catwoman could be a degenerate hero the likes of punk rock stars and Nightmare Before Christmas characters inspiring a new kind of youth

Well, I like your way of seeing her. The problem is I find the way of playing with the notions of right&wrong very appealing. So, I'm all the way for subverting things like Law And Order and Crime World. See, Edward Nygma would a Federal Agent, a law enforcer, and yet he's driven by obssesion and his action would raise no empathy at all from the audience. He's designed to further push away Batman from the Law.

Catwoman is the counter-proposition. She's a woman whos interesting and attractive, and who has an ideal deep inside... maybe she has a past of poverty and now she's in touch with the poor, maybe through charity, maybe through friends she's trying to help. She would be an empathetic character, BUT a criminal. She would further pull Batman to the rogue world, to being an outcast. That's how she would function as a catalyst.


Giving Selina an ufortunate past, maybe a background of poverty (and maybe somekind of personal tragedy, not as great as Bruce's, of course) could give her a very nice subtext. She's a thief, after all, so she doesn't deal with people's lifes and their psychology (like the Joker, or the Scarecrow). She deals with people's possesions. She steals stuff, for her and maybe for others. To give her somekind of connection with the poor from Gotham (maybe old friends; maybe a younger sister who was adopted when they were both orphans; maybe she's involved in some kind of charity system) would provide her character some great contrast. And her intentions need to be rendered good, so the audience can emphatize with her more.

So, I think the economic issues would be a nice sub-theme for the next movie, just like Terrorism and Counter-terrorism worked as a subtext for TDK. In the sequel, Batman is a complete outcast now, and Selina, being a criminal who steals mostly from rich people and institutions, is obviously an outcast too. And they both break the Law. And they both see themselves as some kind of harmonizer in the city. And they will be both attracted to each other. Imagine the public's reaction when they see Batman having a soft hand with infamous cat burglar. His image would further deteriorate (that's one of the reasons I believe that Bullock should be in the next movie, to protray better those feelings of distrust towards the Batman).

So, yeah, I agree with Selina having some kind of ties to the poor people of Gotham (they are outcast, in their own way, as well). Plus, imagine the repercusions pf such a theme when economic concerns are growing larger in America and in the world. I would really want to see the Nolan's take in that.

 

[hopefule]

I'm looking a little MORE feedback guys. Can you guys tell me what you like or don't like? I can take criticism. So let me know if this story works or not? Thanks.

Commission Gordon has formed a task force to catch a cop killer called the “Hangman” who turns out to be Boss Maroni’s wife out for revenge after Harvey Dent killed her husband. Batman is still on the run from the cops and the very vigilantes he inspired and is now being hunted by hitmen hired by the “Hangman”.

Meanwhile, the Board of Directors at Wayne Enterprises is secretly questioning Fox’s capacity to run the company. The Board has become increasing suspicious of Fox after he promote Reese to run the weapons department. However this was actually Bruce’s decision which causes a rift between Bruce and Fox. Fox advises Bruce that Reese isn’t to be trusted and that putting him in this position is dangerous for the both of them. Bruce calms Fox by telling him that it would be better to keep Reese close so they can keep an eye on him.

Meanwhile, Reese is enjoying his new position of power even though his reputation has been destroyed after he refused to give up Batman’s identity. Reese while loyal to Bruce comes to resent Batman because of the risks to his own self interest. He knows that if something should happen to Bruce he would lose everything.

Batman and Gordon meet for the first time in months when a group of Joker copycats lead by Harley Quinn ambush Gordon and his men. Batman swoops in and captures Quinn. Gordon and Batman discuss the past few months. Gordon tells Batman that cyber-crime has jumped suggesting criminals are still scared to walk the streets. Batman agrees telling him the powerful criminal left in Gotham is a mere two bit drug dealer (the Scarecrow). Gordon admits that it is getting better but he worries that outsiders may move in to fill the void left by the Joker.

Meanwhile, Scarecrow meets with an arms dealer to buy knock-off bat weapons and is quickly overpowered by the Penguin’s men. Scarecrow nearly faints when he learns from the goons that the Penguin is in Gotham. Penguin then enters the room and wants to know who is supplying Scarecrow with the weapons being sold on the black market. Scarecrow swears they aren’t Penguin’s weapons and explains that his weapons are blown up bat toys and that his only reason to sell is because weapons are the new drugs in Gotham since everyone is buying them to hunt the Batman. Penguin explains the art of war to Scarecrow and that Batman is nothing without his superior weapons. Penguin explains his plan deal with Batman. First they need to level the playing field so they’ll arm all of Gotham with Penguins weapons to keep Batman off balance. Then they move in and steal Batman’s weapons. And then sell him more weapons. Penguin laughs as we understand that he is using Batman to boost his sales.

Meanwhile at Wayne Enterprises, Reese becomes even more desperate after Fox threatens to fire him when an entire weapons shipment coming up missing (which was actually stolen by the Penguin). Reese investigates online posing as a weapons dealer selling blue prints for some of the bat toys using the Alias Mr. E. The Penguin contacts him and makes him an offer he can’t refuse when Penguin offers him enough money to buy enough shares in Wayne Enterprise to stage a hostile takeover.
However, Penguin is secretly using Reese to find the source of the Bat Toys and has already hired a spy without a name and armed her with his own weapons. Her mission is to discover the identity of Mr. E at Wayne Enterprises and to steal his Bat toys. She becomes known on the streets as the Catwoman after torturing thugs for info by scratching their faces to shreds with her claws. She goes undercover at Wayne Enterprises using the name Selina Kyle and becomes Fox's new assistant believing that he is Mr. E. She begins to fill Bruce in on the day to day operations at Wayne Enterprises as Bruce’s relationship with Fox falls apart. She then begins dating Bruce while secretly stealing his bat toys without actually knowing he’s Batman.

Meanwhile, the Penguin lets Reese know that he's out of the loop. Reese puts things together and realizes that Penguin hired a corporate spy to steal the weapons under his nose to set him up as the fall guy. Reese comes up with a plan to cover up his deeds as he installs a weapons grade computer virus under his control at Wayne Enterprises and uses it to shut down critical points of Gotham’s infrastructure. However, Reese isn’t a killer so he uses puzzle that only Batman can solve in order to divert Bruce's attention away from focusing on the stolen bat toys on the streets. Gordon dubs the man behind this as “the Riddler.” While Batman is kept busy solving puzzles before the program shuts down another section of the city Reese begins covering up his crimes by wiping files and shredding documents.

However, Selina finds Reese’s files stored on her flash drive and learns that Bruce is Batman and Reese is the Riddler. Reese catches her using his computer and alerts the police that there is corporate spy at Wayne Enterprises. Bruce arrives and is shocked to find the spy is Selina as she begs him to forgive her. When the police arrive, Reese shocks everyone when he points the finger at Bruce knowing that Bruce will be unable to account for his nights out as Batman and will have to take a plea deal which should force the board to force Bruce out as majority stockholder making Reese the new majority owner of Wayne Enterprises. As Bruce is lead away in handcuffs, Reese cancels the virus program as the City regains power.

Selina leaves Wayne Enterprises to meet with the Penguin. She tells him that Bruce is the Batman. The Penguin wants the rest of his bat toys and names of his suppliers. Scarecrow wants revenge. So they all hatch a plan to break Bruce out of Jail. During the escape, Catwoman double crosses Scarecrow and Penguin as she and Bruce escape. She then tasks off her masks revealing herself to Bruce.

The city goes black again when the Penguin restarts the virus program. Penguin then sends Bruce a text message to meet nearby. They arrive and Penguin reveals Reese as the Riddler who used one of the Penguin’s viral program to commit cyber crimes which lead him to Gotham and to Wayne Enterprise and finally to Bruce. Bruce realizes that the Penguin was one of the original suppliers for Bruce’s bat suit and Bruce has made this arms dealer rich and powerful in the process of becoming Batman. Penguin offers a truce to the man that made all of this possible. He offers to let Bruce go free if he gives up all of the weapons and his suppliers and being Batman. He explains that Gotham will always have a Batman because this Batman is the greatest marketing tool for his weapons business. Bruce realizes that Penguin’s goal is to keep the war going and it will tear Gotham apart. Penguin is in fact bringing in his own Batmen armed with his weapons for Gotham to hunt them down forever in an endless cycle.

In the end, Batman catches Scarecrow and Reese. However, Reese escapes when Batman unsuccessfully stops Catwoman from killing the Penguin. Reese then makes a call to a CEO in a huge office wearing a top hat (Mad Hatter).

Meanwhile, Batman meets Catwoman on the roof of Wayne Enterprises. She wants to put everything behind them and start a new life. He tells her he doesn’t even know her real name. She says, “It doesn’t really matter what they call us Bruce.” Bruce feels that she has crossed the line killing Penguin in cold blood and is wanted for murder. She replies, “They want both of us for doing things for the greater good. The world thinks Bruce Wayne dead. We can start a new life any where in the world, Bruce.” Batman replies, “Bruce Wayne is died a long time ago.” Catwoman lifts up his mask and touches his face. She says touching his face, “This is your mask.” She then puts down his mask as Gordon arrives. Then while touching his mask she says, “This is the man I love” as Gordon’s cops drag her away.

GORDAN: Assassins. She’s definitely wanted all over the world.

BATMAN: What about the boy (Dick Grayson)?

GORDAN: Somebody just picked him up. Apparently Wayne is taking him in. I guess he feels responsible or maybe its just good PR. What about this Riddler character?

BATMAN: (watching Catwoman escape swinging from rooftop to rooftop)
He’ll turn up.

GORDAN: She’s good. (Pointing down at the missing grappling gun on Batman’s belt).

BATMAN: (Looks down and smirks)

FLASH FORWARD: [Gordon at home talking to Jimmy on the stoop]
JIMMY: (crying) Why?
GORDAN: Because we don’t need him anymore, son. (Picking up and hugging Jimmy)
JIMMY: Will he ever come back?
GORDAN: It’s the darkness. It calls to him. If it should ever take hold of Gotham again …that will be the day… (looks up into skyline) the Dark Knight Returns.

FLASHBACK TO ROOF TOP:
GORDAN: When does this end?
BATMAN: (Looks back at Gordon). It never ends. (and then jumps off the roof).

 

[HereToComment27]

I don't think that Catwoman needs to have ties in with the less fortunate people of Gotham City, but instead have a hatred for the mob or the Riddler (like I said, the Riddler hacks her identity and she dons the masked vigilante known as Catwoman to halt the progress of crime)

Her storyline does not need to be to detailed, but her character arch should be. Selina Kyle could be a friend of Bruce Wayne, but Catwoman could be the love interest for Batman.

I also agree that Harvey Bullock needs to be introduced. As does Rupert Thorne, Oswald Cobblepot (who is nicknamed the Penguin) the Riddler and Mr. Freeze. Just read what I wrote on the previous page.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I would love to see Clayface and Man-Bat in future sequels.

CLAYFACE -in keeping with Nolan's realism the SFX would have to be kept to a minimum so while fans might want a T-1000 morphing style everytime Clayface shows up that might take it to cartoony levels, I'm thinking that Clayface could be portrayed more as a master of disquise relying on make-up and wigs (that's the best I can come with)

MAN-BAT -with Man-Bat the movie would be more towards horror and WB will not go for it so I really can't come up with a good story, so much for that idea.

 

[NameIsn'tBuddy]

Bane
Black Mask
Rupert Thorne

And the the big surprise is....
Red Hood (Easy way to bring back Joker after the death of Ledger)

 

[HereToComment27]

I could see Bane fitting into the story line and realism of Nolan's take on Batman, but I don't think that he should be used.
One, because his only real accomplishment was breaking the Bat, which I know would never occur in Nolan's Batman series.
Two, Bane's second main accoplishment was freeing all of Arkham, which already occured in Batman Begins. He has a lot of potential, and is quite realisitc, but I am not sure how he could fit well into the storyline that has already basically been created for the third one, set up byt TDK.

I agree with Rupert Thorne, but I don't like the idea of the Black Mask. To me, The Black Mask was always like the Red Skull from Marvel Comics. I still stand by my decision of Mr. Freeze and the Riddler. Nolan did state that he wanted a pair of villains never teamed up before, and Freeze and the Riddler in one movie is new, so it could work.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Bane represents a physical threat Batman has yet to face. Nothing has been straight comic to film so why would they only limit themselves to those 2 accomplishments Bane has done.

 

[NameIsn'tBuddy]

And what about Red Hood?

 

[HereToComment27]

Mr. Freeze is also a physical threat to Batman. Not only with a ice gun, that could be re-done as a liquid nitrogen weapon, but his suit, which could be re-done more realisticly as an expiremental exoskeleton suit, provides strength and a suprising amount of prowess. So, Bane is NOT the only physical threat to Batman, but he is one.

As for the Red Hood, personally, I do not know what to think of this idea. It is a good idea, yet I think that it would, in some way, dis-honor the Joker as the Joker. Also, I do not think that Nolan would introduce the Red Hood unless he really wanted to bring the Joker back for a substantial part of the film.

 

[NameIsn'tBuddy]

The thing that I missed most about TDK was the father/son relationship between the Joker and Batman. Batman created the Joker, and not alluding to that fact was a plain insult to the fans. Two-face was essentially the bad guy in TDK and Nolan could use the Red Hood to encompass the vital relationship between our protagonist and antagonists. Bane could be a secondary villain like Scarecrow in BB, but the man behind the scenes, Red Hood, could be the real puppet master.

 

[HereToComment27]

I actually liked the fact that the Joker's origins are not explained and that Batman did not create him. I have been a long time fan of Batman, and this decision not to have had Batman create the Joker was fine with me.

Bane could be used as a secondary villain, I suppose, but did you read what I posted about two pages back?

 

[Melkay]

The thing that I missed most about TDK was the father/son relationship between the Joker and Batman. Batman created the Joker, and not alluding to that fact was a plain insult to the fans. Two-face was essentially the bad guy in TDK and Nolan could use the Red Hood to encompass the vital relationship between our protagonist and antagonists. Bane could be a secondary villain like Scarecrow in BB, but the man behind the scenes, Red Hood, could be the real puppet master.

Either you're a troll or... nah, you're a troll.

Just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(comics)#Origin

 

[HereToComment27]

Either you're a troll or... nah, you're a troll.

Ok, I am new to the threads, so I have no idea what a troll is. Could someone please explain?

 

[NameIsn'tBuddy]

I'm no rat...I mean troll.
I'm all for having Batman become the next bad guy. The Dark Knight left Batman as a criminal, and I think that Nolan should develop this idea further. Bane could be a drug-addicted cop or something and Batman needs to compromise his moral compass in order to become the guardian of Gotham once again. Read Batman Venom in LOTDK.

 

[HereToComment27]

I still do not know what a troll is and I think that Freeze and the Riddler would work well as main villains.