The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Ace of Knaves]

yea i think it could be really interesting, batman/bruce coming to the limits of his morals not physically like in TDK but just methodically like how does he go about stopping this man. whats worth more to him? his family name and company reputation or gotham. gotham could be in the grip of a new crime-wave but batman is so obsessed with stopping the riddler destroying his family name and company he starts to neglet whats really happening on the streets.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yo melkay what do you reckon of my ideas for tha riddler?

 

[The Major]

I have called him. His answer machine says: "Hi, I'm Chris Nolan, and I swear... if I get another call asking me to do a third Bat-film, I WILL make the most faithful remake of Batman & Robin ever... bat-nipples included. Please leave your message after the signal... *bip*."

So I got second thoughts.


However, David, I repost here my crazy idea about the Riddler breaking Wayne Enterprise's security for a very, very prized thing to him. Read it, plase, I'd like to get some feedback from you....

I'm all for the idea of Riddler being an egocentric federal agent who gets obssesed with catching the Batman. He makes a fake villain alter ego called the Riddler and leave clues in crime scenes to lure Batman into his traps. His traps get bigger and more dangerous, he gets caught an expulsed from the FBI. So, then he goes after the thing his prizes the most.

What is the thing that Edward Nigma prizes most in the world? Answers. Knowledge. He wants to know every answer to every valuable question out. And as far as valuable go, knowing who Batman is ranks really high. But apart from that, knowledge is the thing that Nigma craves the most. So, what would be one thing from TDK that the Riddler would ambition the most?

The bat-sonar-computer. The thing that would help him locate (and listen to) every gothamite with a cell phone out there, just turning it on.

But Fox destroyed the computer…. Well, if one person besides Fox can fix it again, that should be the Riddler.

And if there’s someone who can get him inside Wayne Enterprises, is a former employee. A former employee that broke inside the building and found the room with the computer that was kept secret. A former employee like Victor Fries.

And maybe Freeze needs the Riddler to crack into the hospitals database and find an organ donor who matches his wife’s blood-type. That donor turns out to be a very elusive cat-burglar. And Freeze needs Riddler to fix the bat-sonar in order to find…. Selina Kyle, a.k.a. Catwoman.

And the least Batman wants is Freeze finding Selina. Or the Riddler getting his hands on that sonar.

I know, it’s a very raw way of combining the three, just wanted to know the idea sounded to others.

You should get someone good at screenwriting to do a mock screenplay of this.

It would be very entertaining to read.

 

[Turtle-Man]

Read the Catman thread. The original post includes a different interpretation of the character. It also ties in with the second film.

 

[David Rice]

I have called him. His answer machine says: "Hi, I'm Chris Nolan, and I swear... if I get another call asking me to do a third Bat-film, I WILL make the most faithful remake of Batman & Robin ever... bat-nipples included. Please leave your message after the signal... *bip*."

So I got second thoughts.


However, David, I repost here my crazy idea about the Riddler breaking Wayne Enterprise's security for a very, very prized thing to him. Read it, plase, I'd like to get some feedback from you....

I'm all for the idea of Riddler being an egocentric federal agent who gets obssesed with catching the Batman. He makes a fake villain alter ego called the Riddler and leave clues in crime scenes to lure Batman into his traps. His traps get bigger and more dangerous, he gets caught an expulsed from the FBI. So, then he goes after the thing his prizes the most.

What is the thing that Edward Nigma prizes most in the world? Answers. Knowledge. He wants to know every answer to every valuable question out. And as far as valuable go, knowing who Batman is ranks really high. But apart from that, knowledge is the thing that Nigma craves the most. So, what would be one thing from TDK that the Riddler would ambition the most?

The bat-sonar-computer. The thing that would help him locate (and listen to) every gothamite with a cell phone out there, just turning it on.

But Fox destroyed the computer…. Well, if one person besides Fox can fix it again, that should be the Riddler.

And if there’s someone who can get him inside Wayne Enterprises, is a former employee. A former employee that broke inside the building and found the room with the computer that was kept secret. A former employee like Victor Fries.

And maybe Freeze needs the Riddler to crack into the hospitals database and find an organ donor who matches his wife’s blood-type. That donor turns out to be a very elusive cat-burglar. And Freeze needs Riddler to fix the bat-sonar in order to find…. Selina Kyle, a.k.a. Catwoman.

And the least Batman wants is Freeze finding Selina. Or the Riddler getting his hands on that sonar.

I know, it’s a very raw way of combining the three, just wanted to know the idea sounded to others.

I like this, I think it plays very well. I don't know if Nolan would try to tackle Mr. Freeze, but I really like the idea of the organ donor. It does seem like alot to get though in a film, but the same could be have been said about TDK script and just look how that turned out.

Now some questions...

Who would be main villain? Freeze or Riddler?

Do we get a back story to Freeze?

Would Riddler be the main focus like Dent? And Freeze would be the wild card like the Joker?

Would Selina just be Selina or Catwoman too?

I really like you ideas man, and if you don't mind would like to write something up and post it on MY site. I would give you credit of course.

 

[David Rice]

Read the Catman thread. The original post includes a different interpretation of the character. It also ties in with the second film.

Nah, no interest in Catman. This is the CATWOMAN THREAD!!!! t:

 

[Turtle-Man]

All right. Forget Catman. Create an original character with the subplot I provided. Read the Catman thread to know why.



He rats out Batman, giving him a reason to be Ratman. No one knows Catman well enough to call "Ratman" another knockoff. In fact, it'd make a lot of sense in terms of connecting to the second film's storyline. Willard and Ben prove rats can scare the hell out of you, and Ratman, as homicidal as he is, tries to make a mockery of Batman to rat him out of his hiding place. He also reveals his identity as Bruce Wayne, giving him more reasons to be called Ratman. Read the idea, and think Ratman.

 

[David Rice]

All right. Forget Catman. Create an original character with the subplot I provided. Read the Catman thread to know why.

He rats out Batman, giving him a reason to be Ratman. No one knows Catman well enough to call "Ratman" another knockoff. In fact, it'd make a lot of sense in terms of connecting to the second film's storyline. Willard and Ben prove rats can scare the hell out of you, and Ratman, as homicidal as he is, tries to make a mockery of Batman to rat him out of his hiding place. He also reveals his identity as Bruce Wayne, giving him more reasons to be called Ratman. Read the idea, and think Ratman.

Read it. Don't like much of anything man, Sorry.

 

[Melkay]

I like this, I think it plays very well. I don't know if Nolan would try to tackle Mr. Freeze, but I really like the idea of the organ donor. It does seem like alot to get though in a film, but the same could be have been said about TDK script and just look how that turned out.

Now some questions...

1. Who would be main villain? Freeze or Riddler?

2. Do we get a back story to Freeze?

3. Would Riddler be the main focus like Dent? And Freeze would be the wild card like the Joker?

4. Would Selina just be Selina or Catwoman too?

I really like you ideas man, and if you don't mind would like to write something up and post it on MY site. I would give you credit of course.

Wow, thank you, I'm very much flattered. I don't know why I can't access to your site, but I will keep on trying.

To answer your questions:

1. I don't think there should be a main villain, but... then again, I don't think of Catwoman as a villain, just a VERY conflictive woman, who's essentially good but drastically different to Bruce. She doesn't come from a rich background, and she's also believe that society needs balancing. Bruce believe himself as such a balance by fighting crime... Selina believes that the rich elite is the main problem of Gotham's crminality, so she keeps stealing from the rich, believing (just like Bruce) she is setting the right kind of example: "Don't obey laws that don't do any good for you. Distrust politicians and distrust rich people. Break the laws, rob those rich guys and try to fix your life that way.... not by being a lamb."
Right example? Maybe not, but her life experiences made her believes that is the right way.

The Riddler... well, he is a bad guy from the beginning. He just happens to be within the Law first, and later... he's not. But a narcissistic obssesed bady guy all the time. Baybe he's the main villain.

And then we get Victor Fries. Much like Dent, Freeze needs a lot of screen time to show his story arc, only this time his arc is even bigger: good and vulnerable guy - desperate good guy who tries to save a life - tragic event - desperate guy who starts doing horrible things to save a loved one - he gets more and more focused on doing that and starts losing his humanity - at some point circumstances make him detest what he has done and helps Batman in some way - he gets redemption, in jail... or in exile... but he's happy because etiher his wfe is now cured or she has a legitimate chance of getting a cure.
Freeze needs more screen time than Nigma, so maybe he can be promoted by the studio as the main villain... just to conceal the fact that he indded gets redemption at some point in the movie. But the real villain and the real thread in the climax must be the Riddler.
Catwoman MUST be heavily promoted too, but just as an appealing character... no really because she's the villain.

2. Yes, we get a back story for Freeze, in the same vein of Dent's.

3. On the contrary... the wild card obssesed with bringin down Batman is the Riddler. Freeze is Dent, only at some point he can be much more dangerous than the Riddler. Is like if in TDK Dent would be the main villain. That would increase in Freeze the conflicted feeling we had about Dent in the climax of TDK.

4. Selina MUST be Catwoman. Othertwise there wouldn't be any need of her... she would be just a sexy love interest. We could get Vicki Vale for that purpose.
When Nolan needed a good prosecutor in Begins, he used attorney Finch... not Harvey Dent... because when you have Harvey his most important aspect is his tranformation and Nolan couldn't waste that. With Selina, is the same case.

I hope that answered your doubts. Thanks again, man.

 

[The Major]

Wow, thank you, I'm very much flattered. I don't know why I can't access to your site, but I will keep on trying.

To answer your questions:

1. I don't think there should be a main villain, but... then again, I don't think of Catwoman as a villain, just a VERY conflictive woman, who's essentially good but drastically different to Bruce. She doesn't come from a rich background, and she's also believe that society needs balancing. Bruce believe himself as such a balance by fighting crime... Selina believes that the rich elite is the main problem of Gotham's crminality, so she keeps stealing from the rich, believing (just like Bruce) she is setting the right kind of example: "Don't obey laws that don't do any good for you. Distrust politicians and distrust rich people. Break the laws, rob those rich guys and try to fix your life that way.... not by being a lamb."
Right example? Maybe not, but her life experiences made her believes that is the right way.

The Riddler... well, he is a bad guy from the beginning. He just happens to be within the Law first, and later... he's not. But a narcissistic obssesed bady guy all the time. Baybe he's the main villain.

And then we get Victor Fries. Much like Dent, Freeze needs a lot of screen time to show his story arc, only this time his arc is even bigger: good and vulnerable guy - desperate good guy who tries to save a life - tragic event - desperate guy who starts doing horrible things to save a loved one - he gets more and more focused on doing that and starts losing his humanity - at some point circumstances make him detest what he has done and helps Batman in some way - he gets redemption, in jail... or in exile... but he's happy because etiher his wfe is now cured or she has a legitimate chance of getting a cure.
Freeze needs more screen time than Nigma, so maybe he can be promoted by the studio as the main villain... just to conceal the fact that he indded gets redemption at some point in the movie. But the real villain and the real thread in the climax must be the Riddler.
Catwoman MUST be heavily promoted too, but just as an appealing character... no really because she's the villain.

2. Yes, we get a back story for Freeze, in the same vein of Dent's.

3. On the contrary... the wild card obssesed with bringin down Batman is the Riddler. Freeze is Dent, only at some point he can be much more dangerous than the Riddler. Is like if in TDK Dent would be the main villain. That would increase in Freeze the conflicted feeling we had about Dent in the climax of TDK.

I like all of this.

What I don't get is how Freeze could be redeemed. He's going to be causing plenty of deaths as an illegal organ harvester trying to find a cure for his wife. That would be hard for the audience to forgive in a realistic setting.

4. Selina MUST be Catwoman. Othertwise there wouldn't be any need of her... she would be just a sexy love interest. We could get Vicki Vale for that purpose.

Or Talia posing as a love interest to get close to Bruce.

When Nolan needed a good prosecutor in Begins, he used attorney Finch... not Harvey Dent... because when you have Harvey his most important aspect is his tranformation and Nolan couldn't waste that. With Selina, is the same case.

I hope that answered your doubts. Thanks again, man.

Dent wouldn't have worked in Batman begins in Finch's place. He wouldn't survive the movie long enough to be Two-Face.

 

[goh78]

All right. Forget Catman. Create an original character with the subplot I provided. Read the Catman thread to know why.



He rats out Batman, giving him a reason to be Ratman. No one knows Catman well enough to call "Ratman" another knockoff. In fact, it'd make a lot of sense in terms of connecting to the second film's storyline. Willard and Ben prove rats can scare the hell out of you, and Ratman, as homicidal as he is, tries to make a mockery of Batman to rat him out of his hiding place. He also reveals his identity as Bruce Wayne, giving him more reasons to be called Ratman. Read the idea, and think Ratman.

Is this a joke?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

who in gods name is catman? this guy can't be serious. i'm so tempted to burn him but i'll probs get a bann. count yourself lucky turtle-man.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

lol that rhymes! i might make a chat out of it!!

 

[The Major]

who in gods name is catman? this guy can't be serious. i'm so tempted to burn him but i'll probs get a bann. count yourself lucky turtle-man.

Catman is a good villain. He just can't fit Batman's movies at all.

He needs some wackiness and subtle comedy to work.

Read Secret Six and Villains United. Gail Simone revamped his character into something interesting.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

ohhh i see. i have never even heard of him. he must be quite new-ish?

 

[The Major]

Catman's been around since 1963. He began as a Catwoman rip-off. Over time he's evolved into a good character.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

orite, i've read most of batmans major stories and i've never seen him before. might have to check those ones you mentioned.

 

[The Major]

Catman was never a major Batman villain. He's only came into his own recently.

I think you'll enjoy both mini-series. They're in trade.

DC is about to launch a Secret Six ongoing series in a few months that Simone is writing.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

ok sweet. cheerz for the info major

 

[David Rice]

Wow, thank you, I'm very much flattered. I don't know why I can't access to your site, but I will keep on trying.

To answer your questions:

1. I don't think there should be a main villain, but... then again, I don't think of Catwoman as a villain, just a VERY conflictive woman, who's essentially good but drastically different to Bruce. She doesn't come from a rich background, and she's also believe that society needs balancing. Bruce believe himself as such a balance by fighting crime... Selina believes that the rich elite is the main problem of Gotham's crminality, so she keeps stealing from the rich, believing (just like Bruce) she is setting the right kind of example: "Don't obey laws that don't do any good for you. Distrust politicians and distrust rich people. Break the laws, rob those rich guys and try to fix your life that way.... not by being a lamb."
Right example? Maybe not, but her life experiences made her believes that is the right way.

The Riddler... well, he is a bad guy from the beginning. He just happens to be within the Law first, and later... he's not. But a narcissistic obssesed bady guy all the time. Baybe he's the main villain.

And then we get Victor Fries. Much like Dent, Freeze needs a lot of screen time to show his story arc, only this time his arc is even bigger: good and vulnerable guy - desperate good guy who tries to save a life - tragic event - desperate guy who starts doing horrible things to save a loved one - he gets more and more focused on doing that and starts losing his humanity - at some point circumstances make him detest what he has done and helps Batman in some way - he gets redemption, in jail... or in exile... but he's happy because etiher his wfe is now cured or she has a legitimate chance of getting a cure.
Freeze needs more screen time than Nigma, so maybe he can be promoted by the studio as the main villain... just to conceal the fact that he indded gets redemption at some point in the movie. But the real villain and the real thread in the climax must be the Riddler.
Catwoman MUST be heavily promoted too, but just as an appealing character... no really because she's the villain.

2. Yes, we get a back story for Freeze, in the same vein of Dent's.

3. On the contrary... the wild card obssesed with bringin down Batman is the Riddler. Freeze is Dent, only at some point he can be much more dangerous than the Riddler. Is like if in TDK Dent would be the main villain. That would increase in Freeze the conflicted feeling we had about Dent in the climax of TDK.

4. Selina MUST be Catwoman. Othertwise there wouldn't be any need of her... she would be just a sexy love interest. We could get Vicki Vale for that purpose.
When Nolan needed a good prosecutor in Begins, he used attorney Finch... not Harvey Dent... because when you have Harvey his most important aspect is his tranformation and Nolan couldn't waste that. With Selina, is the same case.

I hope that answered your doubts. Thanks again, man.

This explains alot and I love it! The only thing I'm not sure of is his redemption.

You can't get to my site? That's strange, I haven't had any problems for months now.

Did you get the PM I sent?

 

[Melkay]

I like all of this.

What I don't get is how Freeze could be redeemed. He's going to be causing plenty of deaths as an illegal organ harvester trying to find a cure for his wife. That would be hard for the audience to forgive in a realistic setting.

That's exactly the point. Taunting with moral relativity. How do you deal with a guy that kills many people but later has a change of heart, helps an entire city (we're talking about millions of people) and then willingly goes to prison for his crimes? How do you deal with the idea of someone who takes lifes... not because he's seeking revenge, but to save a good soul's life? To save a loved one's life?

Have you seen Lost? The Second Season? How do you deal with Michael... a guy who killed two women (one not so innocent, intentionally, and one very innocent, unintentionally) to save the life of his son?

How do you deal with those things?

Either way, the way you judge Freeze talks more about you than about the character. And that kind of complex moral depth was absent even in TDK. Good and evil were almost clear there... but what happens when it's not anymore? How is Batman supposed to deal with a good woman who's a criminal, a bad guy who's in the side of the Law, and a good man who kills people to save the life of his innocent wife?

How is Batman supposed to deal with the fact that he is an outcast, pursued by the very same society he's been defending for so long?

The redemption theme in Freeze must be tackled... whether the audience thinks he achieved it, or not.

Or Talia posing as a love interest to get close to Bruce.

I already stated in the Talia thread why I heavily oppose her character, even in the comics. You did read it. She won't ever be a character as complex as Catwoman. And most of ther potential vanishes when you take her father out of the picture. Remember Talia's best stories, and you'll see.

Dent wouldn't have worked in Batman begins in Finch's place. He wouldn't survive the movie long enough to be Two-Face.

That's why, but why if they didn't kill him?

Then he would be another generic district attorney... like Harvey Dent in Burton's Batman.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I have always liked the set-up for Morrison's Prometheus as the anti-Batman.

The son of two murdered parents who decides to bring down law and order than hold it up.

I have never liked Prometheus though. His look is too busy and not even good looking. Nor would he work in Nolans uber-realism where nothing is possible unless Nolan says so (sonar cellphones but no Lazarus Pit )

But anyway, maybe the anti-Batman set up could be applied to Deadshot.

 

[Vapor]

Mr. Freeze
If Batman can have a suit then why not Freeze, although it would probably need a re-design. He's not a multi millionaire like Bruce so maybe it would look kinda like a contamination suit, although not so 'clunky', which he only needs to wear outside of his cold lab (so we see him 'normally' too). His suit, rather than keeping him frozen, could maybe circulate cold air around him which keeps him cool but gives him his pale/frozen look. And his gun, rather than essentially being a freeze ray could maybe work as a device which uses nitrogen gas to drastically and rapidly lower the temperature around him to freezing..

And instead of having a lab accident cause his condition, why not have him born with a medical condition, a sensitivity to temperature so he is sent away to boarding school in say Iceland or Russia which makes him become miserable and lonely, until he meets Nora.

And Nora could be taken terminally ill in hospital and when the doctors want to pull the plug he breaks in to the hospital and 'kidnaps' her and takes her to his lab where he works for a cryogenics company and freezes her, thinking he can find a cure. Upon finding this out he is fired but ransacks the lab and takes any equipment he needs and sets up else where on his own but he needs the funds to operate and keep Nora frozen, hence begins his criminal career..

Bane
Rather than having Venom which grants him super strength, how about having a serum which alters the fibres of his muscles making them tougher rather than stronger.

It could make him a little bit stronger but rather than portraying as a superstrong monster, he could just be extremely tough and durable, enough to say, withstand getting hit by a car and not getting hurt or not feeling anything or affected by fist fights.. It could act like his body has become armour.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Your Bane doesnt seem much different just semantics in the wordchoice. I think if fear toxin and cellphone sonars work than so should Venom

 

[David Rice]

That's exactly the point. Taunting with moral relativity. How do you deal with a guy that kills many people but later has a change of heart, helps an entire city (we're talking about millions of people) and then willingly goes to prison for his crimes? How do you deal with the idea of someone who takes lifes... not because he's seeking revenge, but to save a good soul's life? To save a loved one's life?

Have you seen Lost? The Second Season? How do you deal with Michael... a guy who killed two women (one not so innocent, intentionally, and one very innocent, unintentionally) to save the life of his son?

How do you deal with those things?

Either way, the way you judge Freeze talks more about you than about the character. And that kind of complex moral depth was absent even in TDK. Good and evil were almost clear there... but what happens when it's not anymore? How is Batman supposed to deal with a good woman who's a criminal, a bad guy who's in the side of the Law, and a good man who kills people to save the life of his innocent wife?

How is Batman supposed to deal with the fact that he is an outcast, pursued by the very same society he's been defending for so long?

The redemption theme in Freeze must be tackled... whether the audience thinks he achieved it, or not.

I already stated in the Talia thread why I heavily oppose her character, even in the comics. You did read it. She won't ever be a character as complex as Catwoman. And most of ther potential vanishes when you take her father out of the picture. Remember Talia's best stories, and you'll see.

That's why, but why if they didn't kill him?

Then he would be another generic district attorney... like Harvey Dent in Burton's Batman.

This would make for a very interesting and dynamic story. Now I see what you mean about his redemption and that's a very good way to look at the whole thing. No matter how the film plays out it's up to the viewer to decided weather or not he is truly forgiven for his crimes. Very nice!