The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Nepenthes]

I'm going from the premise that Nolan already knows where he is going, so I'm looking for what has already been setup. I was thinking, and I most certainly could be wrong, that Batman abducted Maroni in the IceBerg Lounge nightclub. It is known that Batman goes there to get information, this could be just a nod to the comics. If it's not, if they depict Penguin like they did Falcone/Maroni, he would be sitting most of the time anyways, so I guess he would not really need the umbrella. If he is always shown as the proprietor of the club, that could explain his attire and proper mannerisms. He would by no means have to be a major story/theme player.

there's a really cool way to deal with this, if I may say so myself

where do birds go?
what denotes power and luxury?
where does the weather come from?
where does batman stalk and survey from?
what goes well with open air pools, hot babes, cocktails and shrimp?

the answer to all these is the sky and rooftop penthouses. Penguin hangs out in the open-air high above the city, taking calls and meetings, lying on pool mattresses, living the life, rain or shine. Picture a scene in a pelting downpour, grey skies, he's got the only umbrella and he's barking orders at goons who are sitting in the rain getting their cigarettes wet and acting like this is completely normal for them. because you're right otherwise a guy like Penguin shouldn't really be outdoors much, and this could portray so many things about him. For one a parallel with Batman AND Bruce Wayne, both operating from and living in the sky, and yeah rationalising his central gimmick the umbrellas

 

[AmazinUncleBen]

Despite my love of the Nolan movies, I almost wish they hadn't gone with this super realistic approach. It makes it really difficult to introduce super powered villains. Which means I probably won't get to see a villain that TAS turned into one of my favorite Batvillains:


[YT]7EtHfr0eBA4[/YT]

 

[cerealkiller182]

Despite my love of the Nolan movies, I almost wish they hadn't gone with this super realistic approach. It makes it really difficult to introduce super powered villains. Which means I probably won't get to see a villain that TAS turned into one of my favorite Batvillains:

Agreed

 

[cerealkiller182]

edit

 

[TheFamilyGuy]

I have a feeling we'll see Two-Face come back in part 3... we'll find out he's in Arkham and then he escapes and makes it known to the public that he was the real killer and that Gordon lied to everyone, thus turning the tables on things... Batman's name will be cleared but Gordon's career will be in ruins.

The shooting script for The Dark Knight explicitly says that Harvey is dead.

 

[TheFamilyGuy]

If I was making the third film, it would have redemption and acceptance as the main themes.

Ramirez redeeming herself for what she did in The Dark Knight.
Batman redeeming his image to the people of Gotham, Gotham accepting him as a crusader for justice.

I think the film should include some hint at to the future fate of Batman and Gotham.
Bruce needs to either realize that he needs to devote himself to being Batman and cleaning up Gotham
OR, that Gordon can now be that person that is incorrupt and can bring order to Gotham.

 

[Melkay]

I think that redemption must be the theme for the next movie too. And the best villain to show that is Mr. Freeze.

Freeze has many aspects to be explored that mirror Batman's situation. He was once a good soul but his life was thwarted by tragedy, and he has decided to go outside the law to get harmony back in his life. He is trying to cheat death, and the death theme would be good to explore in Bruce's life. His parents died (we still need some good Wayne's grave scene), his love died, the man who embodied hope in his city (Harvey) also died.
And they're both outcasts, because they chose to do things outside the law. But Freeze doesn't see his wife dead, and thus he's more desperate than Bruce because is harder for him to make peace with his tragedy.

But, that's precisely why I think Freeze can enter in a bigger theme where Nolan explores the ambiguity present in some criminals... the ones who do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Because Freeze is not exactly a villain... unlike the Joker (Catwoman would fit very good in this theme too). And Freeze CAN be reedemed.
So Bruce could come to see in Freeze the redeeming opportunity he never had the chance of achieving with Harvey.

In the comics, Batman always tries to "cure" Harvey. Harvey is dead, so he Nolan can explore that with Victor Fries.

My VERY FIRST CHOICE for Victor Fries is Ben Kingsley... and no other. Whoever has seen House Of Sand And Fog knows what I'm talking about.


So, Freeze has more of a theme in consonance with the next Batman movie than, say, The Riddler. The only thing against him is the Sci-Fi element.
Why is it that so many people are thinking of the Riddler? What's so good about him. Freeze is so many a times a better character.

 

[TheFamilyGuy]

I really don't see Mr. Freeze working as a villain in Nolan's films.

 

[I am vengence]

Wrote something like this up on the Deadshot thread.

Title: "Gotham"

Inspired by the comic series "Batman: Gotham Nights" (not to be confused with "Knights") and "No Man's Land". Most of the film could be seen from the eyes of Gotham's citizens. Batman is portrayed as the boogeyman in the film. Knowing he's a fugitive doesn't help things.

The mafia is in shambles after TDK. Remember the movie "The Warriors"? I would have all these colorful 2nd rate gangs feuding over who's going to run Gotham. This could be part of the "escalation" Gordon was rambling about in BB. The three gangs would be made up of:

- Black Mask: Leader of the False Face Society, which is more of an occult than a gang. All his men wear masks.

- Ventriloquist/Scarface: Gangster wanna-be with a dummy. His men are all dressed up in pin-striped gangster suits.

- Penguin: English arms dealer and businessman. His men wear tuxedos and act like the "social elite".

All hell breaks loose and the government declares Gotham a war zone. Deadshot, a gun-for-hire is sent in to eliminate the new gang bosses, as well as the Batman. Deadshot is a lot like Martin Sheen's character in "Apocalypse Now", but a lot less sane. He craves war, and considers Gotham a playground more or less. At some point in the film civilians become expendable to Deadshot and he's portrayed more as the villain we remember in the comics.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I like what you did with Deadshot, the mobsters could use a little work. Id add the earthquake from No Man's Land and change it to a disaster zone rather than a war zone

 

[Batmania]

I really don't see Mr. Freeze working as a villain in Nolan's films.

Me neither. I don't know how seriously guy can take a guy who is called Mr. Freeze.

 

[cerealkiller182]

you must not have watched the animated series where Freeze was not just a bad ass but also very deep tragic character as well

 

[I am vengence]

I like what you did with Deadshot, the mobsters could use a little work. Id add the earthquake from No Man's Land and change it to a disaster zone rather than a war zone

Thanks. I admit my intentions were to have the gang leaders play second fiddle in the plot. Each leader is colorful and has a personality, but they're only there to feud over Gotham as a plot device. So yeah, I didn't really put much work into defining them. Deadshot would be the main villian in the story.

The earthquake would be an interesting take, but having Gotham become a war zone would grab Deadshot's attention more. I would have the story play out a lot like "No Man's Land", but have a street war (and not an earthquake) be responsible for the choas.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Deadshots a hitman. He follows the money. The earthquake is just the catalyst for a disaster zone causing inept government response and the fall of local law enforcement and government that causes the gangsters to start turf wars

 

[David Rice]

The shooting script for The Dark Knight explicitly says that Harvey is dead.

Thank you. I wonder how long it will take until people exept this. I guess well have to wait until the third films comes out.

Wrote something like this up on the Deadshot thread.

Title: "Gotham"

Inspired by the comic series "Batman: Gotham Nights" (not to be confused with "Knights") and "No Man's Land". Most of the film could be seen from the eyes of Gotham's citizens. Batman is portrayed as the boogeyman in the film. Knowing he's a fugitive doesn't help things.

The mafia is in shambles after TDK. Remember the movie "The Warriors"? I would have all these colorful 2nd rate gangs feuding over who's going to run Gotham. This could be part of the "escalation" Gordon was rambling about in BB. The three gangs would be made up of:

- Black Mask: Leader of the False Face Society, which is more of an occult than a gang. All his men wear masks.

- Ventriloquist/Scarface: Gangster wanna-be with a dummy. His men are all dressed up in pin-striped gangster suits.

- Penguin: English arms dealer and businessman. His men wear tuxedos and act like the "social elite".

All hell breaks loose and the government declares Gotham a war zone. Deadshot, a gun-for-hire is sent in to eliminate the new gang bosses, as well as the Batman. Deadshot is a lot like Martin Sheen's character in "Apocalypse Now", but a lot less sane. He craves war, and considers Gotham a playground more or less. At some point in the film civilians become expendable to Deadshot and he's portrayed more as the villain we remember in the comics.

The title Gotham is not enough. The title WILL be about Batman, not the city he lives in.

"Social elite" = Selina Kyle!

 

[Julio Alejandro]

Oops

 

[cerealkiller182]

Gotham isnt just the city he lives in, its the reason for his whole mission. And with a high concept storyline implied in his premise, its very fitting.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Calendar Man in his Hannibal Lector type role

It might be difficult to do it since it may be seen as such a blatant rip off of Lector but instead of Calendar Man you could have Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow in the role. Scarecrow is a psychologist in the first place and would be handy in such a relationship with Batman. Cillian is also super creepy looking like Calendar Man was drawn.

 

[Melkay]

I really don't see Mr. Freeze working as a villain in Nolan's films.

Really? That's funny, because lots of people couldn't see Ledger as a Joker that wasn't permawhite, or the Scarecrow as only doning mask. I know the same thing can be said to every villain but, if someone can do Freeze justice, those are the Nolans.

Me neither. I don't know how seriously guy can take a guy who is called Mr. Freeze.

I don't know how seriously I could take a guy named Scarecrow ("If I only had a brain!") or a guy named Two-Face, or a guy called The Riddler (and basically every bat-villain with a fancy name). Hav eyou noticed taht Nolan barely mentions those fancy names in his movies? Scarecrow? Just two times in Begins. Two Face? Just once in TDK.

Victor Fries.... that's a name you can take seriously.

p.s. I just realized I can't take a seriously a batman fan who mocks the name Mr. Freeze. Great.

 

[Melkay]

...instead of Calendar Man you could have Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow in the role. Scarecrow is a psychologist in the first place and would be handy in such a relationship with Batman. Cillian is also super creepy looking like Calendar Man was drawn.

That's probably the best idea I've read in these forums. Great. It should be done right though, to avoid the Lecter rip-off thing.

 

[Frontier]

I think that Riddler needs to be played like a cross between the Ledger Joker and the Zodiac Killer. He needs to be a psycho, a serial killer, who uses riddles in his crimes as his signature. He needs to be a different breed of such, though. He wants to taunt people and, especially, Batman. He wants to show his own superiority without being swept up in it. He has to be more grunge and real, like the Ledger Joker. His killings have to be more inspired, more intelligent. Traps laid, rather than knives and guns. I also think it would be crucial for Riddler to escape in the end, rather than be killed or captured. Perhaps faked death, that is revealed as such. He has to be Batmans intellectual equal, rather than a wannabe like he's usually portrayed.

 

[NameIsn'tBuddy]

Three words...

Drug
Addict
Batman

 

[Melkay]

I think that Riddler needs to be played like a cross between the Ledger Joker and the Zodiac Killer. He needs to be a psycho, a serial killer, who uses riddles in his crimes as his signature. He needs to be a different breed of such, though. He wants to taunt people and, especially, Batman. He wants to show his own superiority without being swept up in it. He has to be more grunge and real, like the Ledger Joker. His killings have to be more inspired, more intelligent. Traps laid, rather than knives and guns. I also think it would be crucial for Riddler to escape in the end, rather than be killed or captured. Perhaps faked death, that is revealed as such. He has to be Batmans intellectual equal, rather than a wannabe like he's usually portrayed.

Ledger Joker? Serial killer? Predictable and boring. Why do you want to repeat the formula. It's better if he is a federal agent who gets obssesed with catching the Batman and goes rogue on it, setting complicated traps that are more dangerous each time, and leaving clues as a fake criminal called the Riddler to make him fall on them. A man obssesed about the power of the mind and who maybe has repeated talks with Johnatan Crane to discuss ideas about how to get inside the mind of the Bat and lure him into a trap.

But not a serial killer just for the sake of it?
Why? What would be his message?
It's not about the killings, it's about sending a message. Every single villain Nolan has presented us with had an idea behind him, even Scarecrow and Falcone. Your Riddler doesn't seem to have any.

You want a compelling villain, and with Riddler is very easy to make him look pathetic, not compelling.

 

[Melkay]

Three words...

Drug
Addict
Batman

Three words...

Get
Some
Rehab

 

[returntovoid]

It might be difficult to do it since it may be seen as such a blatant rip off of Lector but instead of Calendar Man you could have Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow in the role. Scarecrow is a psychologist in the first place and would be handy in such a relationship with Batman. Cillian is also super creepy looking like Calendar Man was drawn.

I agree with that idea.