The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[ALittlePush]

The problem I see is acceptance from the audience (the whole audience not comic book fans) with the idea that this is the new Joker. As well as, does it serve a part in the story? Will the Joker be vital to the story or just in there to be in there. A problem with including him is that it could be interpreted as trying to top The Dark Knight by bringing back its main attraction. I feel that this would not go well with general audiences as they will see it as striving to beat their box office standings and ultimately just be a bad decision.

I agree that if the Joker does return, then it should be because he is necessary for the story rather than being there just to be there.

I disagree about the general audience. I think that they will be alright about a recast so long as Joker is there for a purpose rather than just there for the sake of it. They know that Ledger can't return to the role. Of course there will be the "Won't be as good as Ledger" mantra until at least the film comes out. But if whoever does get the role is as good as Ledger, I don't think the audience would mind the recast. They would probably go to see the film to make up their own mind whether the recast is as good as Ledger or not.

Recasting the part is a huge gamble whichever way you look at it. It's either going to be really successful and people will leave the film thinking "wow" or it will be really unsuccessful and people will leave the film thinking "not as good as Ledger". Either way, whoever gets the role is gonna have to work hard to meet expectations and change the minds of naysayers.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The problem I see is acceptance from the audience (the whole audience not comic book fans) with the idea that this is the new Joker. As well as, does it serve a part in the story? Will the Joker be vital to the story or just in there to be in there. A problem with including him is that it could be interpreted as trying to top The Dark Knight by bringing back its main attraction. I feel that this would not go well with general audiences as they will see it as striving to beat their box office standings and ultimately just be a bad decision.

I wouldnt want another Joker film even if Heath was still alive anyway. I got my fill. But i would like to see a joker cameo in B3 because after all the destruction he caused in TDK, you just know that he wont sit still during B3. So at the very least he could bully the other Arkham inmates or kill a few guards trying to get some attention from Batsy.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I wouldn't mind the Joker being recasted,or acting different. Cause the Joker supposedly "recreates himself". So it would be interesting to see a different actor bringing something different to the performance. Johnny Depp should play him,his talents are far better suited for Joker than the Riddler.

 

[ALittlePush]

But i would like to see a joker cameo in B3 because after all the destruction he caused in TDK, you just know that he wont sit still during B3. So at the very least he could bully the other Arkham inmates or kill a few guards trying to get some attention from Batsy.

I agree that the Joker wouldn't just sit in his cell like a good little boy in Batman 3. However, the Joker needs a bigger role than a cameo in the third film otherwise what's the point of having him in there. If you're going to recast the Joker then at least give him a reasonable size role or don't bother having him at all.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I still think the grand finale to the trilogy should involve Joker somehow. Maybe he takes over the Asylum and beckons Batman for a final showdown or something? I mean, you introduce Batmans greatest villain ever in the second movie, then completely sweep him under the carpet for the third and most likely final movie in a trilogy? That makes ZERO sense.

 

[jmc]

I wouldn't mind the Joker being recasted,or acting different. Cause the Joker supposedly ''recreates himself''. So it would be interesting to see a different actor bringing something different to the performance. Johnny Depp should play him,his talents are far better suited for Joker than the Riddler.

Good luck getting Deep to agree to doing it, in fact good luck finding any actor who'd want to take over, there's a level of respect amongst actors especially for performances as iconic as Ledgers. Not only that, I'm doubtful Chris would want anyone taking over.

 

[ALittlePush]

I still think the grand finale to the trilogy should involve Joker somehow. Maybe he takes over the Asylum and beckons Batman for a final showdown or something? I mean, you introduce Batmans greatest villain ever in the second movie, then completely sweep him under the carpet for the third and most likely final movie in a trilogy? That makes ZERO sense.

Good luck getting Deep to agree to doing it, in fact good luck finding any actor who'd want to take over, there's a level of respect amongst actors especially for performances as iconic as Ledgers. Not only that, I'm doubtful Chris would want anyone taking over.

There are good points for both sides of the arguement. I do think that Joker should be in the third film, especially if it is the last Nolan Bat film. However, it is going to be difficult to find an actor willing to take on such an iconic role. If they do decide to go that route, it will go one of two ways. Either no actor will go near the role because of the pressure of expectation that is going to be heaped upon them Or one brave sod will step up to the mark and do their absolute best to carry on the role from Ledger. To do so the actor will need to be fearless; and isn't that what made Nolan want Ledger for the Joker- Ledger's fearlessness.

Personally, I hope the Joker does return for the third film. So long as the actor playing the part does a good job, I'll be happy.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

There are good points for both sides of the arguement. I do think that Joker should be in the third film, especially if it is the last Nolan Bat film. However, it is going to be difficult to find an actor willing to take on such an iconic role. If they do decide to go that route, it will go one of two ways. Either no actor will go near the role because of the pressure of expectation that is going to be heaped upon them Or one brave sod will step up to the mark and do their absolute best to carry on the role from Ledger. To do so the actor will need to be fearless; and isn't that what made Nolan want Ledger for the Joker- Ledger's fearlessness.

Personally, I hope the Joker does return for the third film. So long as the actor playing the part does a good job, I'll be happy.

That's just not how a good actor's mind works, dude. Actors who believe in themselves and believe in what they are doing are going to jump to take the role, if offered. I imagine this role won't be open to auditions, as much as it will be cast based on an invitation from Nolan. In which case, I'm sure the actor selected would be both honored and psyched to pick up where Ledger left off.

 

[jmc]

I'm gonna call it, you will not find a single actor who is willing to take over the Joker role in the Nolan series unless it is Nolan himself who is insisting said actor must be the Joker, which given how he and Heath were the architects of this version of the character and how much they poured their blood, sweat and tears in the character and how much respect the two men had for each other is an unlikely situation. There's too much respect for Ledger in the acting community and for what he did in the role, no one is going to be willing to take over the Joker because it's only ever going to be pale in comparison, nothing but someone else doing Heath's Joker, and it's never going to be the same and every actor will know this.

 

[sabetoonth]

Draft Two

Over the course of the next few weeks I'm going to update my story ideas. Here's the first part:

Roman Sionis - Black Mask

In the comics, Roman Sionis was born into one of Gotham’s wealthiest families, the owners of Janus Cosmetics. After the death of his parents Sionis inherited his family’s business and then proceeded to run it into the ground. He was eventually bailed out when Bruce Wayne bought his company, but feeling disgraced, Sionis became Black Mask and attempted to murder several Wayne Enterprises employees.

Combining a mob boss and a "freak" would create the escalation we need for the third chapter in Chris Nolan's crime epic storyline.

After the "accidental" death of his parents, Sionis inherits everything and decides to use his resources to take total control of the two things he desires most, Wayne Enterprises and Gotham City. Set one year after the events in The Dark Knight, Sionis would serve as the film's central villain. Using a dual identity much the way Bruce Wayne does, Sionis appears to be the squeaky clean industrialist who rivals Lucius Fox for Wayne Enterprises, only secretly to be known as Black Mask, a murdering sadist who controls the largest gang of organized crime in the history of Gotham, The False Face Society.

My casting choice is Matthew Goode (The Lookout, Watchmen). In Watchmen, Goode was handsome and charismatic on the surface, while secretly counseling his true nature... sound like someone else you've heard of?

i like you

 

[Mr. Earle]

I'm gonna call it, you will not find a single actor who is willing to take over the Joker role in the Nolan series unless it is Nolan himself who is insisting said actor must be the Joker, which given how he and Heath were the architects of this version of the character and how much they poured their blood, sweat and tears in the character and how much respect the two men had for each other is an unlikely situation. There's too much respect for Ledger in the acting community and for what he did in the role, no one is going to be willing to take over the Joker because it's only ever going to be pale in comparison, nothing but someone else doing Heath's Joker, and it's never going to be the same and every actor will know this.

Its not like they would be pissing on his grave. They would be continuing his work. I hate this mentality that you and many others around here share.

 

[ALittlePush]

That's just not how a good actor's mind works, dude. Actors who believe in themselves and believe in what they are doing are going to jump to take the role, if offered. I imagine this role won't be open to auditions, as much as it will be cast based on an invitation from Nolan. In which case, I'm sure the actor selected would be both honored and psyched to pick up where Ledger left off.

That's what I mean. Whoever gets the role isn't going to take it lightly. They will be aware of what is expected of them and will do their absolute best to portray the Joker. It's gonna be daunting though because everyone's reaction will immediately be "won't be as good as Ledger". Whoever gets the role will need to be fearless as they're gonna be under a lot of scrutiny from fans and the general audience.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Its not like they would be pissing on his grave. They would be continuing his work. I hate this mentality that you and many others around here share.

I agree.

When people say it would be disrespecting Ledger, I think it's a bit...weird? How is it disrespecting him?

And to say "Well there is no point because it would pale in comparison" is really small minded and again, pretty weird bordering on obsessed with Ledger.

Saying that is like the people who were saying Ledger was a bad choice and would never top Nicholson in the first place. Look what happened there.

I'd LOVE to see what Tom Hardy would do with the Joker. If he got to do what Ledger did, really dive into the character, make it a personal portrayal he would blow us away. I don't doubt that for a second.

And that's what needs to happen if Joker gets recast. Don't try to imitate Ledger, they should bring their own take to it. Really, who will give a crap if the Joker is slightly different as long as it's another amazing, frightening performance?

 

[Mr. Earle]

I agree.

When people say it would be disrespecting Ledger, I think it's a bit...weird? How is it disrespecting him?

And to say "Well there is no point because it would pale in comparison" is really small minded and again, pretty weird bordering on obsessed with Ledger.

Saying that is like the people who were saying Ledger was a bad choice and would never top Nicholson in the first place. Look what happened there.

I'd LOVE to see what Tom Hardy would do with the Joker. If he got to do what Ledger did, really dive into the character, make it a personal portrayal he would blow us away. I don't doubt that for a second.

And that's what needs to happen if Joker gets recast. Don't try to imitate Ledger, they should bring their own take to it. Really, who will give a crap if the Joker is slightly different as long as it's another amazing, frightening performance?

I think that the should be the same. Its not like he will be the main villain of the sequel anyway. He will most probably have a scene or two, so they should just do the Nolan joker.

 

[sabetoonth]

thy should do the joker blogs as his part

 

[jmc]

Its not like they would be pissing on his grave. They would be continuing his work. I hate this mentality that you and many others around here share.

Continue what work? Ledger covered every aspect there is of the Joker, it's not like he missed something. You can go on about the 'mentality' of people in here but the truth is you'll be hard pressed to find an actor, especially a quality one, willing to replace Ledgers Joker in Nolan's series. That you can put money on.

And that's what needs to happen if Joker gets recast. Don't try to imitate Ledger, they should bring their own take to it. Really, who will give a crap if the Joker is slightly different as long as it's another amazing, frightening performance?

Slightly different? It wouldn't even come close to being 'slightly' different, it would be totally different.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Continue what work? Ledger covered every aspect there is of the Joker, it's not like he missed something.

Well he isnt here to shoot any scenes for B3, so... he missed that.

 

[jmc]

Well, the Joker isn't going to be in film 3 so there will be no work to continue.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well, the Joker isn't going to be in film 3 so there will be no work to continue.

How can you know that?
Because you assume that Nolan would consider recasting equal to desecrating Ledger's grave and raping his corpse?

 

[jmc]

There won't be a Joker for the following factors. First, there's too much respect in the acting community for Ledgers' performance and him in general, you will not find any actor, no matter if it's Depp or Daniel Day Lewis or whoever willing to continue that Joker role, not only that it makes no sense from acting perspective to take on a role that's beloved by so many people because the reaction is going to be negative regardless, deservedly or not, simply because it's not Heath, and no actor is going to be willing put themselves in that kind of situation. It's not about pissing on his grave, sometimes artwork doesn't need to be improved on. Second, Nolan got everything out of the Joker that he needed to out of this film, nothing was missed about the character, heck Nolan even said as much, not only that but if you're going to bring the Joker back, for this series it has to be Ledger's Joker, you can't just wink at the audience and say 'this guy is now the Joker' because everyone knows the only reason this dude is is because the last guy can't be, on top of that, it's never going to be the same character, period. And third, Nolan's emotional reaction, we all know Heath death effected him, after seeing what Ledger did how do you now write for the same character knowing the person who went beyond what the script called for, and perhaps even inspired future ideas for the character, isn't going to be able to repeat what he did? This is why the Joker will not return.

 

[Mr. Earle]

There won't be a Joker for the following factors. First, there's too much respect in the acting community for Ledgers' performance and him in general, you will not find any actor, no matter if it's Depp or Daniel Day Lewis or whoever willing to continue that Joker role, not only that it makes no sense from acting perspective to take on a role that's beloved by so many people because the reaction is going to be negative regardless, deservedly or not, simply because it's not Heath, and no actor is going to be willing put themselves in that kind of situation. It's not about pissing on his grave, sometimes artwork doesn't need to be improved on. Second, Nolan got everything out of the Joker that he needed to out of this film, nothing was missed about the character, heck Nolan even said as much, not only that but if you're going to bring the Joker back, for this series it has to be Ledger's Joker, you can't just wink at the audience and say 'this guy is now the Joker' because everyone knows the only reason this dude is is because the last guy can't be, on top of that, it's never going to be the same character, period. And third, Nolan's emotional reaction, we all know Heath death effected him, after seeing what Ledger did how do you now write for the same character knowing the person who went beyond what the script called for, and perhaps even inspired future ideas for the character, isn't going to be able to repeat what he did? This is why the Joker will not return.

You are making stuff up, especially the part in bold. You re not stating these as your opinion, but as facts, as if you know all these guys and you've talked to them about it.

Dude, they recasted Ledger's role in the same film. 4 times!

 

[jmc]

Did you even read the article Nolan wrote about Ledger? And as for Heath last role, different circumstances.

 

[ALittlePush]

When the guy who originally played Dumbledore in the Harry Potter films died,they recasted. Everyone was fine with it because the continuation of the story required Dumbledore's presence and everyone knew the original guy couldn't do it.

In the third Batman film, should Joker make an appearance, as long as it is a necessity for the story rather than a shoehorned cameo, I have absolutely no problem with a recast. The general audience know that Ledger can't do it because of unfortunate circumstances.

If Ledger was alive and well and decided not to do a third film anyway but the story required the Joker's presence, should the story be compromised to omit the character?

They could of kept the Rachel character out of TDK because the original actress didn't come back but they recast the role because the character was important to the story. With recasting the Joker, it's a bit of same situation, different circumstances.

 

[jmc]

And yet people don't want to treat it as a different circumstance. And with all due respect to the late great Richard Harris, his Dumbledoor didn't exactly do anything as spectacular or as iconic as Ledger Jokers, it's laughable to even compare the two.

 

[Infinity9999x]

That's just not how a good actor's mind works, dude. Actors who believe in themselves and believe in what they are doing are going to jump to take the role, if offered. I imagine this role won't be open to auditions, as much as it will be cast based on an invitation from Nolan. In which case, I'm sure the actor selected would be both honored and psyched to pick up where Ledger left off.

I disagree. Being an aspiring actor myself, I would completely understand people not wanting to take the role. When you're taking over for a guy who, highhandedly took an already iconic movie villain and elevated it to the iconic level of Hannibal and Darth Vadar, you're going to think about it for a while. It could quite easily kill your career, and even if you do great, you'll probably still have lots of people going "eh...it's all right, but not as good as Heath."

However, in regards to should they bring back Mr. J, I only want him back in if he played an important part in the story Nolan had outlined for B3.