The Dark Knight In Heath We Trust: A Ledgerbration: The TDK Joker Appreciation Thread - Part 1

[Gothamsknight]

haha and rightfully so.

 

[Herofan]

Ik the line "I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve" is a bit (too much) of a non sequitur, with that line he is more admitting he is a monster but so is, will be everyone else.

 

[GothamCity]

So im thinking, if ledger would still live, would he be in the tdk sequel?

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, maybe not as the main villain, but he would have been in it. Would have been interesting to see an "Agent of Chaos" deal with Bane's Gotham.

 

[Drizzle]

I think that at the very least, he would have been in Crane's place as the "judge" after Bane takes over Gotham. Either that or Bane would just refuse to let him go free because he's too much of a wild card.

 

[Brother Jack]

There's no way Bane would have let him out of Arkham. He was antithetical to Bane's entire philosophy, and he would (or should) be smart enough to know Joker would ruin the plan he was devoted to.

 

[BatLobster]

There's no way Bane would have let him out of Arkham. He was antithetical to Bane's entire philosophy, and he would (or should) be smart enough to know Joker would ruin the plan he was devoted to.

I could honestly see Bane finding Joker in his cell, snapping his neck without saying a word, and walking away. It would be a good way to demonstrate that Bane IS the executioner and the rightful heir to Ra's legacy that Bruce rejected.

Of course, it would probably never be written that way if Heath was in the film, but that's what I think Bane would do.

 

[Brother Jack]

100%. Bane as written in Rises is not one for taking half-measures. There is no scenario where both he and Joker could co-exist on an equal playing field. He absolutely would have killed him if he had the chance.

 

[Drizzle]

There's no way Bane would have let him out of Arkham. He was antithetical to Bane's entire philosophy, and he would (or should) be smart enough to know Joker would ruin the plan he was devoted to.

While you're right about Bane not taking a chance on letting Joker go free due to conflicting ideologies, I very much doubt Joker could have ruined the plan of blowing Gotham up since no one knew how to disarm the bomb and there was no way out of the city thanks to Bane's mercenaries.

 

[Brother Jack]

While you're right about Bane not taking a chance on letting Joker go free due to conflicting ideologies, I very much doubt Joker could have ruined the plan of blowing Gotham up since no one knew how to disarm the bomb and there was no way out of the city thanks to Bane's mercenaries.

I don't know exactly how he would've screwed with Bane, but I'm sure he'd find a way. That scene in TDK where he burns the mob's money shows that he's out to mess with everyone, no matter what side of the law or moral code they're on. Though I do think Joker would get a kick out of Bane's feigned revolution; the chaos that ensues from the upended social order kind of proves his point in TDK right.

 

[The Joker]

I think that at the very least, he would have been in Crane's place as the "judge" after Bane takes over Gotham. Either that or Bane would just refuse to let him go free because he's too much of a wild card.

I could not see Ledger's Joker play a sub servant role like the one Crane had playing Judge. The Joker would have been butting heads with Bane. That's two sharks swimming in a pond.

 

[Drizzle]

Since we're just riffing here, let's say Joker was involved in TDKR and found a way to escape incarceration during Bane's takeover...what if he were the one to kill Bane and save Batman the way Catwoman did for no other reason than his belief that he and Batman were destined to be at odds with each other forever and couldn't bear the thought of being in a world without him? That's an idea that I had years ago that would be more of a crowd pleaser moment than anything but it would still be quite a moment.

 

[BatLobster]

A 4-hour version of TDKR where Heath was able to reprise his role and we got to see some of the delicious scenarios we're talking about play would pretty much be my ultimate.

I wish I lived in a timeline where that existed instead of the Snyder Cut...

 

[GothamCity]

I could honestly see Bane finding Joker in his cell, snapping his neck without saying a word, and walking away. It would be a good way to demonstrate that Bane IS the executioner and the rightful heir to Ra's legacy that Bruce rejected.

Could totally have happened.

 

[Gothamsknight]

So im thinking, if ledger would still live, would he be in the tdk sequel?

I absolutely believe he would have been, tbh.If you ask me, Ledgers Joker would have teamed up with another villain though. I don't think he'd be have been a single antagonist again, and I don't really count Harvey as a second main villain in TDK because his downfall into Two Face was more a product/example of the Jokers motive/lack thereof rather than a full fledged bad guy.

 

[Brother Jack]

I could not see Ledger's Joker play a sub servant role like the one Crane had playing Judge. The Joker would have been butting heads with Bane. That's two sharks swimming in a pond.

It makes way more sense for Crane to play that role. It bookends with his first appearance in Begins as a courtroom witness.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Crane and Joker together is something I think would've been far more likely than Bane and Joker.

 

[BatLobster]

It makes way more sense for Crane to play that role. It bookends with his first appearance in Begins as a courtroom witness.

You know, I'm not sure I ever really made that connection. Or I forgot.

Either way, great litte detail.

 

[The Joker]

Crane and Joker together is something I think would've been far more likely than Bane and Joker.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Exactly what I was thinking of haha. From knightfall and I believe it's detective comics #664 if i remember.

 

[BatLobster]

Anybody else feeling a little blue that between The Batman coming and Keaton returning (plus the 89 comic series), TDK trilogy is feeling a bit forgotten/under-appreciated these days?

Obviously the story was beautifully concluded, but I do wish there was some sort of revival possible for it. I would still love to see comics set in that universe some day. I know the way Nolan ended the story makes that tricky, but you could always multiverse explain it away somehow or make it an Elseworlds offshoot within the Nolanverse. Imagine comics where Bale's Batman and Ledger's Joker could face-off some more, Eckhart's Two-Face was still alive, etc. Obviously Scarecrow. I think that could be a lot of fun for those of us who still have a lot of attachment and nostalgia for that iteration of the franchise.

I feel like there's just this sea of Batman content being flung out there way these days and it does bum me out a bit to wonder if anyone's going to still care about this trilogy at all in another 10 years. I actually really enjoy the concept of the DC multiverse officially uniting all the universes as one big canon, but it seems like a bit of a missed opportunity if you don't squeeze a little juice out of TDK Trilogy in that situation. I really hope there's some sort of nod in The Flash, I do.

 

[Rick190293]

I really missed more references to the trilogy in Fandome, and overall some return to Nolanverse would be amazing, no doubt. Unfortunately I don't think it will happen soon, if Burton's Batman is continuing after 30 years, maybe we will have to wait some years too, right?

 

[BatLobster]

I really missed more references to the trilogy in Fandome, and overall some return to Nolanverse would be amazing, no doubt. Unfortunately I don't think it will happen soon, if Burton's Batman is continuing after 30 years, maybe we will have to wait some years too, right?

Yeah, the lack of any references at all annoyed me. I kept waiting for even just one shot in that opening montage and nope. I get it, they want to focus on upcoming projects and be forward-looking with an event like that. But I think they should embrace celebrating the great legacy they have too, IMO. From a marketing perspective the rich history of the character adds a lot of brand value, and they seem to be leanng into that with the multiverse idea.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Anybody else feeling a little blue that between The Batman coming and Keaton returning (plus the 89 comic series), TDK trilogy is feeling a bit forgotten/under-appreciated these days?

Obviously the story was beautifully concluded, but I do wish there was some sort of revival possible for it. I would still love to see comics set in that universe some day. I know the way Nolan ended the story makes that tricky, but you could always multiverse explain it away somehow or make it an Elseworlds offshoot within the Nolanverse. Imagine comics where Bale's Batman and Ledger's Joker could face-off some more, Eckhart's Two-Face was still alive, etc. Obviously Scarecrow. I think that could be a lot of fun for those of us who still have a lot of attachment and nostalgia for that iteration of the franchise.

I feel like there's just this sea of Batman content being flung out there way these days and it does bum me out a bit to wonder if anyone's going to still care about this trilogy at all in another 10 years. I actually really enjoy the concept of the DC multiverse officially uniting all the universes as one big canon, but it seems like a bit of a missed opportunity if you don't squeeze a little juice out of TDK Trilogy in that situation. I really hope there's some sort of nod in The Flash, I do.

I'm in the same boat, man. I actually think, due to Keatons return in The Flash, WB, is trying to cement Keaton as the definitive live action version, but if you ask me, TDK trilogy was the definitive version for a generation. I noticed in the opening to DCFandome, there was the complete absence of anything Nolan verse related. i think last year we saw a glimpse of Ledger Joker, but this year there was virtually nothing. It bums me out a bit and while I get that the trilogy concluded, it's pretty disrespectful to what is arguably the mot successful live action iteration of the character to date.

I'd definitely be open to them continuing some stories in comic book form. I'd actually be interested seeing what happens post TDKR.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm in the same boat, man. I actually think, due to Keatons return in The Flash, WB, is trying to cement Keaton as the definitive live action version, but if you ask me, TDK trilogy was the definitive version for a generation. I noticed in the opening to DCFandome, there was the complete absence of anything Nolan verse related. i think last year we saw a glimpse of Ledger Joker, but this year there was virtually nothing. It bums me out a bit and while I get that the trilogy concluded, it's pretty disrespectful to what is arguably the mot successful live action iteration of the character to date.

I'd definitely be open to them continuing some stories in comic book form. I'd actually be interested seeing what happens post TDKR.

I feel you man.

To fair, you can say this was Nolan's choice. He made a brave decision to end the story so conclusively, and a result WB/DC probably feels like it's a dead-end commercially speaking. And maybe Nolan himself would prefer it not to be touched or messed with. I also wonder if Nolan's recent falling out with WB has anything to do it.

But either way, you'd hope they would find a way to include such a big part of their flagship character's history in some way when it comes to these FanDome events, even if it's just little things.

It's key to remember that Batman Begins quite literally saved the movie franchise after years of WB aimlessly trying to figure out what to do with it. Most casual viewers I know were kind of rolling their eyes at the idea of another Batman movie when Begins was announced. And a lot of fans weren't too keen on the realism angle. The hard reboot idea had never really been attempted before. It was completely uncharted territory. Sure, it's inevitable that something would've been done with it eventually, but to the same level of success as what the trilogy achieved? I'm not so sure. It was exactly the right vision for the time IMO, especially because it differentiated itself so well from all the other cape flicks and blockbusters of the time. It was the first time a complete vision for the character was able to be seen through from beginning to end without having the plug pulled or having it creatively hijacked. I know the trilogy also re-ignited an interest in the comics and broader world for a lot of people, myself included.

We've seen examples of what can happen when a relaunch doesn't exactly go right. Superman Returns, BvS. It makes you wonder where the franchise might be today if Batman Begins hadn't been able to restore audience faith.