The Dark Knight In Heath We Trust: A Ledgerbration: The TDK Joker Appreciation Thread

[VenomVsSpidey]

No one is dismissing all the other incarnations of the Joker. Stop being so childishly defensive. Yes, the character has been interpreted in numerous ways throughout the years but that doesn't mean all of them are equally good. Some are clearly superior to the others, and have kind of set the benchmark for what many fans or even the general public wants the character to be. Ledger's Joker is not a completely new reinvention. He is clearly based heavily upon the very first Joker comics, The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs and even The Dark Knight Returns (though to a lesser degree) which were much more sadistic, violent and less 'goofy' versions than other interpretations. Even his looks (curved smiles, long purple trenchcoat with gloves) are undoubtedly influenced by Bermejo's Joker.

I think it's time you snap out of your bubble and realize that TDK fanboyism and Comics fanboyism are not mutually exclusive things. People loved TDK not because it was different from the comics but rather because it was an extremely well-made film that, despite slight deviations, still remained extremely faithful to its source material and embodied the very spirit of the comics.

 

[Bim]

Words can't describe how much I love this picture of Ledger's Joker.

That's indeed a great picture

 

[The Joker]

Hey guys, please vote for TDK in this thread, if only for the distasteful remark this guy put in the poll option for it: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=17241880#post17241880

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

Hey guys, please vote for TDK in this thread, if only for the distasteful remark this guy put in the poll option for it: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=17241880#post17241880

too late...it's locked.

he should be banned for that. that dead guy...whatta dick..

 

[Pennyworth]

Sorry to bump this up, but this was an article written in Vanity Fair titled 'The Last of Heath':

Spoiler

Why was Heath Ledger so ambivalent about his own stardom, and what happened at the end of his life? Vanity Fair contributing editor Peter Biskind sheds new light on these difficult-to-answer questions as he writes about the actor’s remarkable talent and untimely death in the August cover story, “The Last of Heath.”

In his article, Biskind explores Ledger’s final movie role, his uncertainty about Hollywood, his devotion to his young daughter, and what happened in the days and weeks leading up to his death as he battled chronic insomnia, pneumonia, and exhaustion. Here are some of the revelations contained in Biskind’s story.

How he cleaned up his act
• Cinematographer Nicola Pecorini, who worked with Ledger on his last film, The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus, says Ledger “used to smoke marijuana on a regular basis, like probably 50 percent of Americans.” But after it became an issue, Ledger “went clean as a whistle.” And vocal coach Gerry Grennell, who worked and lived with the actor during the filming of The Dark Knight, says Ledger even stopped drinking: “Heath would happily go to the bar, buy a round of drinks for friends, and come back and have a soda or juice, never once drinking alcohol.”

How chronic insomnia may have led to his death
• Ledger’s use of sleeping medication to combat chronic insomnia at the end of his life was of more concern to Grennell. “I’d say, ‘If you can possibly bear it to stop taking the medications, do, because they don’t seem to be doing you any good.’ He agreed. It is very difficult for me to imagine how close he came to not taking them.”

Ledger would typically spend night after night awake, diverting himself with time killers, Biskind reports, such as re-arranging the furniture in whatever space he happened to be living in at the moment. Grennell coached him in the Alexander Technique, which helped him to sleep for a few hours at a time, but he still struggled.

“Everyone has a different view of how he passed away,” Grennell tells Biskind. “From my perspective, and knowing him as well as I did, and being around him as much as I was, it was a combination of exhaustion, sleeping medication … and perhaps the aftereffects of the flu. I guess his body just stopped breathing.”

How his marriage failed
• Terry Gilliam—Ledger’s friend and mentor, and the director of Doctor Parnassus—agrees with Pecorini that the romance between Ledger and Williams began to unravel during the Oscar campaign for Brokeback Mountain. “The whole machinery started growing up around them,” Gilliam says. “That was the moment when it changed, when he realized, Uh-oh. We perceive the world differently. He didn’t care about things like those awards.”

According to Pecorini, “Heath was always blaming himself [about the relationship], asking, What did I do wrong?” Adds Gilliam, “Because he’s a much nicer person than I am, he really thought he could do the right thing. He was trying to be decent and graceful, give her whatever she wanted—the house, every ****ing thing. But once it started going south, it went very quickly. He was overwhelmed by lawyers, and there were more and more of them, as if they were breeding. I said, ‘This is ********. Heath, just end it. Get out—it’s bad. You’ve got to just walk away from it.’ The stakes kept going up. He wouldn’t listen to any of us.”

As Ledger’s relationship with Williams unraveled, and the pair started dealing with lawyers and custody issues, according to Gilliam, Ledger fell apart. “The thing that really made Heath snap” was legal wrangling over his daughter, Matilda, Gilliam says. “He said, ‘Just **** all of you! I’m not giving Michelle anything.’” Recalls another source, when it came to Matilda’s care, “there were definitely heated conversations, and emotions were high.” (Ledger’s lawyer declined to comment on any aspect of the separation or custody dispute.)

His devotion to the job
• The strife in his personal life coincided with the shoot for Gilliam’s Parnassus, but rather than distract him from his work, Gilliam believes it helped him concentrate on the task at hand, he tells Biskind. He appeared one day on set “clearly bloody sick,” Gilliam says. The doctor told him it was the beginning of pneumonia and that he ought to take antibiotics and go home and rest. According to Gilliam, Ledger said, “No way. I’m not going to go home, because I can’t sleep, and I’ll be just thinking about the situation. I’d rather stay here and work.”

Although “he would arrive in the morning completely knackered,” Gilliam says, “by the end of the day he was beaming, glowing with energy. It was like everything was put into the work, because that was the joy; that’s what he loved to do. The words were just pouring out. It was like he was channeling.”

Ledger’s apathy for stardom
• Ledger’s friend and agent, Steven Alexander, tells Biskind that Heath “was always hesitant to be in a summer blockbuster, with the dolls and action figures and everything else that comes with one of those movies. He was afraid it would define him and limit his choices.” According to friends of Ledger’s, one of the reasons he agreed to do Dark Knight was that the unusually long shoot would give him an excuse to turn down other offers.

Alexander tells Biskind that Ledger had a pay-or-play deal on The Dark Knight—meaning he’d get compensated no matter what—so he felt he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted as the Joker. According to Pecorini, Ledger hoped his performance would be so far-out he’d be fired, and thus become the beneficiary of a lengthy, paid vacation.

“He was ready to bust out of the gate, but he didn’t want to step on the gas and become something that he didn’t want to become: a matinee idol,” says Alexander. “He was a private person, and he didn’t want to share his personal history with the press. It just wasn’t up for sale. That’s part of the reason he initially tore down his career. He wasn’t motivated by money or stardom, but by the respect of his peers, and for people to walk out of a movie theater after they’d seen something that he’d worked on and say, ‘Wow, he really disappeared into that character.’ He was striving to become an ‘illusionist,’ as he called it, able to create characters that weren’t there.”

The August issue of Vanity Fair hits newsstands in New York and Los Angeles on July 1 and nationally July 7.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2009/06/why-was-heath-ledger-so.html

I know I'm behind here, but I finally was able to read this article, and while it does offer insight into Heath's last days I felt like it just as easily could've been titled "Terry Gilliam's Final Days with Heath Ledger." So much of the article is focused on how Heath's death affected Terry and others, as well as his film, as opposed to focusing on Heath. I guess as fiercely private as Heath was, this shouldn't surprise me, (not to mention that Doctor Parnassus was what took up most of his last days) but I was disappointed somewhat.

My inner fan boy also took exception to the way they sort of dismissed TDK as this popcorn movie that Heath didn't take seriously...

"For my part, there was a bit of rage. Because I never thought it was right that Heath's last role would have been the Joker, with all respect for the movie. Because having lived close to him while he was shooting it, I know it wasn't something he believed in. It was just for fun."

-Nicola Pecorini, Director of Photography on The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus.

It seems clear to me that the Joker role was something he took seriously and had fun with at the same time.

 

[BestGirl]

^That quote makes it sound like Pecorini is tearing TDK down to prop her own movie up.

I have a feeling TIODP isn't going to be even half as good as TDK.

 

[terry78]

A lot of people will only view it as a comic book movie role, thereby not as poignant as other film.

 

[gwynplaine]

^That quote makes it sound like Pecorini is tearing TDK down to prop her own movie up.

I have a feeling TIODP isn't going to be even half as good as TDK.

Well said. I completely agree with you.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

^That quote makes it sound like Pecorini is tearing TDK down to prop her own movie up.

I have a feeling TIODP isn't going to be even half as good as TDK.

also agree.

 

[BestGirl]

A lot of people will only view it as a comic book movie role, thereby not as poignant as other film.

They shouldn't. TDK may have been a comic book movie but it was Best Picture caliber. TIODP probably won't be.

 

[redfirebird2008]

A lot of people will only view it as a comic book movie role, thereby not as poignant as other film.

Yeah but Terry Gilliam's movies aren't any more relevant than Nolan's. I like Gilliam but he's mostly style and almost zero substance.

 

[bane]

Yeah but Terry Gilliam's movies aren't any more relevant than Nolan's. I like Gilliam but he's mostly style and almost zero substance.

Kinda like Burton's movies...

 

[soulonsale]

I know this doesn't concern TDK, mods please feel free to move the thread at your will, I just thought it was pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUTEBzHq4SQ

Heath Ledger had started to direct this Modest Mouse music video for their song King Rat, but passed away before completion of the vid.

Ledger was friends with the band.

The video was finished by his friends at The Masses, the creative company where Ledger was a partner.

A year and a half after his passing, the video has finally been released.

 

[luke1234]

Yeah i saw this, its a really nice animation, the song is okay. Im a big Modest Mouse fan but their new stuff doesnt really compare to their old stuff. As far as direction and execution goes its pretty creative and well composed. Way to go Heath.

 

[OctaviusINC]

Pretty cool.

Inspired me because I'm an Animation major and it looks like a majority of this (if not all of it) was done in After Effects.

It gave me a lot of ideas.

Thank you Mr. Ledger.

 

[soulonsale]

yeah, very interesting animation style. looks like a souped-up animatic or motion comic. I love the facial expressions the sun makes t:

 

[OctaviusINC]

Edit....

 

[soulonsale]

huh?

 

[gwynplaine]

Kinda like Burton's movies...

Good point. They are very similar director imo, with the same kind of background.

 

[isi123]

Hi,

I know it's kinda random or not very much 'Batman' rlated but i just saw the trailer of The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus and saw Heath Ledger. Thought you guys might of wanted to know or see.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/08/07/the-imaginarium-of-dr-parnassus-uk-trailer/

Looks pretty cool and will defo see it for Heath, as well as Depp looks good. Not really a fan of the rest.

RIP Heath!

 

[up2nogood316]

cheers, lol it looks like a crazy film.

listen to 37 to 40, reminds me of WHYYY SOO SERIOUS!!

quite weird how alike they all look especially depp and ledger, had to keep checking back thru the trailer to see who was who haha

 

[isi123]

Lol, haha i think your right, it does kinda sound lik 'Why So Serious', but is that Heath? I mean it doesn't sound anything like him. If it is though, he's good at voice acting. (Which we know about from TDK).

Yeah Ledger and Depp look to alike. I can't tell who is who in some shots. Just waiting for the HD version to be up soon hopefully so we can see it in more detail.

 

[Killer Queen77]

cheers, lol it looks like a crazy film.

listen to 37 to 40, reminds me of WHYYY SOO SERIOUS!!

Lol, haha i think your right, it does kinda sound lik 'Why So Serious', but is that Heath? I mean it doesn't sound anything like him. If it is though, he's good at voice acting. (Which we know about from TDK).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that voice clip is not Heath. There were Imaginarium clips of Heath shown at the Cannes Film Festival (I think it was) and Heath has a very gentle and eloquent English sounding voice in this movie - think how he sounded in The Brothers Grimm or A Knight's Tale - that sort of thing.

 

[Anita18]

I got chills when Depp's Tony said, "Nothing is permanent. Not even death."

 

[El Payaso]

Lol, haha i think your right, it does kinda sound lik 'Why So Serious', but is that Heath? I mean it doesn't sound anything like him. If it is though, he's good at voice acting. (Which we know about from TDK).

Yeah Ledger and Depp look to alike. I can't tell who is who in some shots. Just waiting for the HD version to be up soon hopefully so we can see it in more detail.

That makes me remember Ledger's role on Grimms Brothers. He was doing a Johnnie Depp there.