It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread!

[Super Kal]

he makes his Superman way too old... while i respect his art, i dont like Superman looking like he's 50. i can understand the reason of it in KC, but not for this movie

 

[StarvingArtist]

I've never been a huge fan of Alex Ross's regular Superman or more precisely the face of his Superman. Too rough and stern for my taste. It works great in Kingdom Come with the older more seasoned Superman though.

I don't think it's necessarily the age Ross give Supes for me, as much as it is that his Supes' face just isn't that flattering.

 

[charl_huntress]

Here's a good example of Fleischer design. I'm not saying Fleischer had a perfect design per say, but they did a great job making Superman look mature, and powerful. This is one Superman that's not ****ing around. The design of the face in this shot is very intentional, the hairstyle isn't designed to just have flopsy locks hanging on his forehead. It's to give the head a powerful profile, a virtual arrow pointing to where Superman is going to kick ass next, almost resembling the outline of an art deco style car. Compare this one's jaw to the one above. All of the features are just very masculine and to-the-point

Wow...it's been a long time since I have seen a Fleischer design. I haven't watched the cartoons in years. I do see what you mean about his face being...more manly. In comparison to the Timm designs and especially the YJ designs, he looks like a man while their Supes looks very boyish.

I thought the Supes in All-Star, which is the pic I posted, looked the best I have seen him look in a while. He looks handsome and mature. Often times, I feel artist sometime sacrafice his good looks (see Identity Crisis) to make him look older, harder, etc. For me the best Supes design, especially in cartoon form, has to be an even blend of both.

I'll try to find some moving pics from All-Star, but if you have a chance to check that out let me know what you think of that design. I'd be very interested to hear your opinion.

I don't think it's necessarily the age Ross give Supes for me, as much as it is that his Supes' face just isn't that flattering.

Are you saying you prefer him to not look attractive?

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

What do you guys think of the Superman who has lines for eyes?

 

[charl_huntress]

This one? "No bueno" for me. I also don't like the nose. For lack of any better word it just looks crude to me.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

I actually meant in general. Don't some artists design him that way? I think the dot eyes make him look older, like in Alex Ross' work. Superman shouldn't squint all the time.

An exception:

 

[Zorex]

Just in case it wasn't posted:

Err. Meh. Gerrrrrrrrrd.

Oh and this...

...Blyech.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

The last two look like action figures. The first one however, does the movie costume justice.

 

[charl_huntress]

I actually meant in general. Don't some artists design him that way? I think the dot eyes make him look older, like in Alex Ross' work. Superman shouldn't squint all the time.

An exception:

I actually like this one, but I think it's because his face lacks the usual shadows that I normally see from Ross.

I haven't seen a Superman with lines drawn for the eyes since the GA. Not really sure about the dot eyes to be honest.

 

[SHH!Petey]

Using a simple red (or yellow/gold) belt like this would be the only real change I'd make to "perfect" the new movie costume.

 

[Young Superman]

Too me, this is what Superman should always look like.

 

[SHH!Petey]

^ I agree, just not in a modern-day live-action movie. And whoa is that the Cryptkeeper? Lois scared out her mind haha

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Why does Superman have little plates on his suit nowadays? It that supposed to be armor?!! As I always say, nothing beats the classics. But there does come time for a change.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Too me, this is what Superman should always look like.

Embrace the undies!

 

[StarvingArtist]

Wow...it's been a long time since I have seen a Fleischer design. I haven't watched the cartoons in years. I do see what you mean about his face being...more manly. In comparison to the Timm designs and especially the YJ designs, he looks like a man while their Supes looks very boyish.

I thought the Supes in All-Star, which is the pic I posted, looked the best I have seen him look in a while. He looks handsome and mature. Often times, I feel artist sometime sacrafice his good looks (see Identity Crisis) to make him look older, harder, etc. For me the best Supes design, especially in cartoon form, has to be an even blend of both.

I'll try to find some moving pics from All-Star, but if you have a chance to check that out let me know what you think of that design. I'd be very interested to hear your opinion.



Are you saying you prefer him to not look attractive?

I pretty much agree with everything you said, i'll have to check all star out. And yeah sorry, I worded my Ross comment horribly. I meant it's not so much ross's supermans age that bothers me, as much it is that he's just not that good looking

 

[SHH!Petey]

Embrace the undies!

It's cool for cartoons/comics, just not on film imo. Again, give this a real belt and we'd have a winner.

 

[StarvingArtist]

So I watched the trailer for All Star Superman, I'll be honest, I'm not impressed. It's basically anime superman. I don't have time to write a paper comparing Fleischer to anime, but the bottom line is that in Fleischer's style, they didn't outline anything that didn't need it. Form and shape was perceivable through light and shadow, which is why screen caps from those cartoons sometimes look kind a bit weird. In motion though it registers naturally and the lighting is a ton more dynamic. Plus, there's a huge technical difference between the two styles as well: rotoscoping. The Fleischer Superman cartoons used a ton of rotoscoping to get the motion to look accurate, which is also the reason why not everything is outlined.

 

[Kane52630]

What a lovely costume.

 

[StarvingArtist]

What a lovely costume.

[YT]UvhMejIcD9o[/YT]

terrific

 

[Kane52630]

Interesting video. I never saw the actual suit light up only in those concept art pics.

 

[Young Superman]

It's cool for cartoons/comics, just not on film imo.

How does it not work on film? Kirk Alyn, George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain , and Brandon Routh all wore versions of the classic Superman costume.

 

[charl_huntress]

So I watched the trailer for All Star Superman, I'll be honest, I'm not impressed. It's basically anime superman. I don't have time to write a paper comparing Fleischer to anime, but the bottom line is that in Fleischer's style, they didn't outline anything that didn't need it. Form and shape was perceivable through light and shadow, which is why screen caps from those cartoons sometimes look kind a bit weird. In motion though it registers naturally and the lighting is a ton more dynamic. Plus, there's a huge technical difference between the two styles as well: rotoscoping. The Fleischer Superman cartoons used a ton of rotoscoping to get the motion to look accurate, which is also the reason why not everything is outlined.

I do agree about the lighting in the old cartoons. Yet, is there anything current in animation that resembles this? I kind of feel like this is an old style you are harkening to that is no longer used in modern animation. However, I am not familiar with the terms you are using, so I don't really know. I'd like to see something modern depicting the style you are talking about so I can actually see the differences you are speaking of verse the new styles.

I like All Star Supes the best out of all the animation I have seen so far.

 

[Rust]

How does it not work on film? Kirk Alyn, George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain , and Brandon Routh all wore versions of the classic Superman costume.

Well, those versions rank from not-so-good to complete ****e. But that's the quality of the suits and not the basic design.

The classic design should still be possible to make look good on film.

 

[SHH!Petey]

How does it not work on film? Kirk Alyn, George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain , and Brandon Routh all wore versions the classic Superman costume.

Because it's a grown man in blue tights with bright red undies I guess. 2 wrongs don't make a right, etc. And now apparently both comics and films realize this too so apologies to you and the "pro-undies" folk. Superman needed an update, but yes that new "52" costume is indeed awful. Someday comics/cartoons and films will have the same costume...

 

[StarvingArtist]

I do agree about the lighting in the old cartoons. Yet, is there anything current in animation that resembles this? I kind of feel like this is an old style you are harkening to that is no longer used in modern animation. However, I am not familiar with the terms you are using, so I don't really know. I'd like to see something modern depicting the style you are talking about so I can actually see the differences you are speaking of verse the new styles.

I like All Star Supes the best out of all the animation I have seen so far.

Rotoscoping is an animation technique where footage of actors playing out the scenes is either used as reference, bottom sheet for tracing, or combo of both to create natural looking, cinematic hand drawn animation. Twas the secret of Fleischer's success. As for modern usage, ehh most recent examples I can think of are misc. Disney films. However it was used heavily in the 70's and 80's by animator Ralph Bakshi.

I watched a few more scenes of All Star. Meh. Take a look at the clip below. To me, that's kick ass animation, and it's the antithesis of Bruce Timm's cheap crap. (caution: the subject matter is crazy cheesy and dated as hell. But the movement is gorgeous: )

[YT]ofdeDcwit2A[/YT]

Interesting video. I never saw the actual suit light up only in those concept art pics.

Yeah steve Johnson's the man. You should check out his youtube channel. His experience working on the Abyss is both fascinating and hilarious