James Bond In Skyfall - Part 10

[DarthSkywalker]

Thanks.

Funny thing is that I was reading an interview for the new Godzilla movie, and the director said the exact same sentence.

The state of movies today lol.

It is cheesy, it is bland, it sounds awful and it does nothing but make me want to fast forward the titles.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It's not because he only did one. It's because he's bland. He doesn't have the charisma or danger that a good Bond should have. I'm reluctant to say that he's a poor man's Sean Connery, because Bond goes in such a different direction in On Her Majesty's Secret Service - but that's due to the story, not Lazenby's portrayal. Lazenby's is the only post-Connery Bond to try to do almost an impression or recreation of Connery's, and it's not satisfying. It doesn't help that the movie has so many nods and references to previous ones that are clearly there to reassure audiences that this is the same person who fought Dr. No and Goldfinger and bedded Honey Rider and ***** Galore; those references are fun, but they exemplify what the movie's doing overall, trying to replace Connery rather than take the character in a different direction. Lazenby's not bad, actually - I watched OHMSS earlier tonight, and he was better than I remembered - but he's not particularly good either. He's at his best in his scenes with Diana Rigg, but she still outdoes him.

Watching OHMSS again, I really tried to love it. I want to be one of those people who see it as the unusual masterpiece, the red-headed stepchild that's actually a gem. But I just can't. There are many great things about it - Diana Rigg's performance, this "cultured thug looking for his respect" take on Blofeld as played by Telly Savalas, John Barry's brilliant score, the boldness of changing the tone and sticking so closely to the Fleming novel, particularly in retaining the ending - but there are also stretches of it that really drag, the action scenes are fine but didn't engage me (in a couple of cases, because they were cut to pieces), and, again, Lazenby's not a strong lead. OHMSS remains on the higher end of the "good, not great" Bonds for me.

One that has gone up in my estimation is You Only Live Twice. I remembered that one as an enjoyable but middling adventure - sure, it had ninjas and the unveiling of Blofeld and the volcano hideout, but it also had boring Bond girls, slow patches, and a Connery who'd checked out. Well, the Bond girls are fairly boring, Connery was visibly becoming tired of being Bond and the burdens and pressures that came with it, but it moves better than I remembered, and I had more fun with all around this time than I expected. And I'd rather have the worn-out Connery of YOLT than Roger Moore in any of his films. He's not as good as in Goldfinger or Thunderball, but he's good.

I definitely disagree with that. I think Roger Moore in The Spy Who Loved Me had a much better perfomance than Connery in his last 3 EON Bond movies. Sure, Moore gets bad flack playing the role as a joke, but I feel as though I keep having to remind people that Moore pretty much plays it straight for most of this movie as it's the only one of the Bond movies that didn't force the humor unlike in all of Moore's other Bond movies, whether it was Sherrif Pepper in the first two, the ridiculousness of Moonraker, the ice skater in For Your Eyes Only, and all the BS in Octopussy and A View to a Kill.

With Lazenby I definitely agree. He fails to see many of the gems of his dialogue in the script, and he gets outshined by pretty much everyone in the movie. Overall, he does a safe job with the movie. He doesn't destroy it, but he doesn't enhance any scenes. Pretty much, he was there to be Connery 2.0. Everyone other Bond has become distinct except for Lazenby.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

I definitely disagree with that. I think Roger Moore in The Spy Who Loved Me had a much better perfomance than Connery in his last 3 EON Bond movies. Sure, Moore gets bad flack playing the role as a joke, but I feel as though I keep having to remind people that Moore pretty much plays it straight for most of this movie as it's the only one of the Bond movies that didn't force the humor unlike in all of Moore's other Bond movies, whether it was Sherrif Pepper in the first two, the ridiculousness of Moonraker, the ice skater in For Your Eyes Only, and all the BS in Octopussy and A View to a Kill.

Let me put it a different way: I'm not going to pretend to be a fan of the Roger Moore era, but I like him in The Spy Who Loved Me, For Your Eyes Only, and Octopussy, and I like those movies. It's not that Connery is better in You Only Live Twice than Moore is at his best, it's that I just like that Connery performance more. However, I changed my mind a bit on You Only Live Twice, so I may come back and say, "No, Moore actually is better in The Spy Who Loved Me than Connery is in You Only Live Twice." I don't like that Moore played it so light, I don't like that I couldn't buy him as an action hero, but when he was really on, he was a very fun guide through these comic/comic book escapades. And he is good doing something much more down to earth in For Your Eyes Only. I'd certainly rather watch Moore in his element than Connery in Diamonds Are Forever or Never Say Never Again.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Thanks.

Funny thing is that I was reading an interview for the new Godzilla movie, and the director said the exact same sentence.

The state of movies today lol.

Godzilla...toned down from a fantastical creature to a grounded monster?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Roger Moore is actually my second favorite Bond. He was in a lot of bad films, but he always delivered even if he was surrounded by dreck. Moore at his worst was better than Connery or Brosnan at their worst. At his best, he was funny and charming and everything that Bond was supposed to be.

And he wasn't just a clown either. He handles serious scenes quite capably as well. The performance that Moore gives in FYEO surpasses Dalton in LTK in what were both revenge plots. The dinner scene with Christopher Lee in the TMWTGG is one of the best scenes in the entire franchise and it was completely serious. His Octopussy crushes Connery's Never Say Never Again.

Moore never gets the credit he deserves because his style of Bond is out of favor these days and because his films were often awful, but he was excellent in the role and never ceased to be entertaining.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Let me put it a different way: I'm not going to pretend to be a fan of the Roger Moore era, but I like him in The Spy Who Loved Me, For Your Eyes Only, and Octopussy, and I like those movies. It's not that Connery is better in You Only Live Twice than Moore is at his best, it's that I just like that Connery performance more. However, I changed my mind a bit on You Only Live Twice, so I may come back and say, "No, Moore actually is better in The Spy Who Loved Me than Connery is in You Only Live Twice." I don't like that Moore played it so light, I don't like that I couldn't buy him as an action hero, but when he was really on, he was a very fun guide through these comic/comic book escapades. And he is good doing something much more down to earth in For Your Eyes Only. I'd certainly rather watch Moore in his element than Connery in Diamonds Are Forever or Never Say Never Again.

It's all good. I was just exchanging opinions and stuff. I think the problem people have with Moore the most is that his movies suffered from too much comic relief to the point that people have issues buying him even at his best. I wish Moore's movies were more like a combination of The Spy Who Loved Me/The Living Daylights, in which John Glen had more leeway with Bond.

Godzilla...toned down from a fantastical creature to a grounded monster?

Technically, he did originally start as a grounded monster that was caused by a nuclear explosion.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

My ranking of Moore's films.

Great

1. The Spy Who Loved Me
2. For Your Eyes Only

Good

3. Octopussy
4. Live and Let Die

Crap

5. The Man with the Golden Gun
6. Moonraker
7. A View to a Kill

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Roger Moore is actually my second favorite Bond. He was in a lot of bad films, but he always delivered even if he was surrounded by dreck. Moore at his worst was better than Connery or Brosnan at their worst. At his best, he was funny and charming and everything that Bond was supposed to be.

And he wasn't just a clown either. He handles serious scenes quite capably as well. The performance that Moore gives in FYEO surpasses Dalton in LTK in what were both revenge plots. The dinner scene with Christopher Lee in the TMWTGG is one of the best scenes in the entire franchise and it was completely serious. His Octopussy crushes Connery's Never Say Never Again.

Moore never gets the credit he deserves because his style of Bond is out of favor these days and because his films were often awful, but he was excellent in the role and never ceased to be entertaining.

People forget about his speech to Anya in The Spy Who Loved Me after she found out he killed her boyfriend. It's my single favorite speech that Bond says.

Spoiler

When someone is on ski's at 40 miles an hour trying to put a bullet in your back, you don't always have time to remember a face. In this business Anya, People get killed. We both know that. So did he. It was either him or me. The answer to the question is yes. I did kill him.

The look in Moore eyes while he says it was perfect.

Personally, my problem with Moore's last two movies had nothing to do with him directly. It was his age and the bad writing more than his performance alone. His performances, other than the first two Bond movies he did I don't think he was ever the problem.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Technically, he did originally start as a grounded monster that was caused by a nuclear explosion.

...Fair enough.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Yeah, that scene with Amasova was fantastic.

 

[SpideyVille]

I'm watching On Her Majesty's Secret Service for the first time right now, and I'm enjoying it. I watched the new Bond documentary "Everything or Nothing: The Untold Story of 007" Friday night and they had Lazenby on their discussing his time as Bond. During the shoot he became friends with this hippy druggy, and began doing drugs, and trying to live Bond's extravagant lifestyle. He said he got out of control and let his fame go to his head. So Eon had to let him go. Its sad really. Hard to believe he had no acting experience before playing Bond.

I just finished watching it, and I mentioned in the 007 Legends game thread that I've never been into the franchise but am starting to get into it. The only Bonds I'm familiar with are Brosnan and Craig. But judging from the documentary, yeah it makes sense why people hated Lazenby because he essentially was trying to be a copy of Connery, but he didn't have the acting experience to back it up.

I don't know anything about Moore or the films he was in, but I found it surprising how Connery and Moore pretty much went head to head with Never Say Never and Octopussy, and how Moore was a part of the one who was more successful. I also felt like thee were some physical similarities between Moore and Brosnan in look, and how Dalton was in a film that would've seemed to fit more with the tone of the Craig films.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Dalton and Craig are very close in terms of their depictions of bond and the feel of their movies. Both base their performances more off the Bond character of the novels (Lazenby also did to degree). Both gave a much more serious (and more human) tone to the character as well as the movies in general. The problem though was that Dalton took the role too seriously and based his performance too much like the Bond character in the novels, who's not really as witty or as charming as the movies depict him. I like Dalton, but there were times in both his movies where you were waiting for a Bond One-liner and it didn't happen, or (in License to Kill's case) you go a pretty long time between Bond One-Liners. I put Craig above Dalton because he does have wit and charm to his Bond.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

Am I wrong or has the reputation of Live and Let Die improved in recent years? Not that it's often held up as one of the best, but it used to be that I didn't think I was alone in disliking it. Now I'm eager to see it again in a couple days to give it another chance.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I think Live and Let Die has definitely improved its reputation (though not as highly as OHMSS had).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I definitely disagree with that. I think Roger Moore in The Spy Who Loved Me had a much better perfomance than Connery in his last 3 EON Bond movies. Sure, Moore gets bad flack playing the role as a joke, but I feel as though I keep having to remind people that Moore pretty much plays it straight for most of this movie as it's the only one of the Bond movies that didn't force the humor unlike in all of Moore's other Bond movies, whether it was Sherrif Pepper in the first two, the ridiculousness of Moonraker, the ice skater in For Your Eyes Only, and all the BS in Octopussy and A View to a Kill.

With Lazenby I definitely agree. He fails to see many of the gems of his dialogue in the script, and he gets outshined by pretty much everyone in the movie. Overall, he does a safe job with the movie. He doesn't destroy it, but he doesn't enhance any scenes. Pretty much, he was there to be Connery 2.0. Everyone other Bond has become distinct except for Lazenby.

Connery was great in Thunderball.

I think Live and Let Die has definitely improved its reputation (though not as highly as OHMSS had).

That is because OHMSS is arguably the best Bond film that has been made.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I found Moore better in The Spy Who Loved Me. I think it has to do with Connery and the female doctor in the beginning (it's pretty creepy in retrospect) along with me just thinking Moore did better.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just listed to Supremacy by Muse in full. I like the Adele song, but Supremacy is a bit better.

I found Moore better in The Spy Who Loved Me. I think it has to do with Connery and the female doctor in the beginning (it's pretty creepy in retrospect) along with me just thinking Moore did better.

Connery wins just for the scenes with Volpe.

 

[chamber-music]

Why the hate toward Lazenby? Just because he did one film, doesn't mean he should get the shaft.

Its because he wasn't a good actor. George Lazenby himself says he wasn't a great actor and he didn't really know what he was doing when he played Bond. The dubbing and goofy Sir Hilary character didn't help.

He had one of the best Bond stories in On Her Majesty's Secret Service but I can't help but feel that movie would of been even better if Connery played the role in that film.

Am I wrong or has the reputation of Live and Let Die improved in recent years? Not that it's often held up as one of the best, but it used to be that I didn't think I was alone in disliking it. Now I'm eager to see it again in a couple days to give it another chance.

I like Live and Let Die. Its the only Moore Bond film I really like. I think its one of the most fun Bond movies.

 

[Dark Raven]

People forget about his speech to Anya in The Spy Who Loved Me after she found out he killed her boyfriend. It's my single favorite speech that Bond says.



The look in Moore eyes while he says it was perfect.

Personally, my problem with Moore's last two movies had nothing to do with him directly. It was his age and the bad writing more than his performance alone. His performances, other than the first two Bond movies he did I don't think he was ever the problem.

Don't forget the scene in the same movie where Anya is showing off her background knowledge of Bond, and mentions his deceased wife Tracy. Bond automatically shuts her down and is quite sharp with her:

Spoiler

Anya: Commander James Bond, recruited to the British Secret Service from the Royal Navy. License to kill and has done so on numerous occasions. Many lady friends but married only once. Wife killed...
Bond: You've made your point.
Anya: You're sensitive, Mr. Bond?
Bond: About some things, yes.

It's great to see, especially coming from Moore who would normally have a one-liner to respond to that sort of thing. Here it almost shows that his jovial personality is more of a facade to keep people out and maintain a humourous front, when in fact he might be more serious deep down.

I can also see an evolution of Bond from Connery to Lazenby to Moore to Dalton which could easily show they are the same character. It's almost as if Bond's coping mechanism after the death of Tracy is to make a joke of everything, whereas he was a bit more serious and well-adjusted before that in his pre-marriage, Connery days. However, he finally snaps in LTK and loses all humour. Also, maybe he's just tired of pretending everything is okay, fed up of laughing it off, and has become more world weary and cynical, so he drops the humour and goes dark.

 

[Gianakin_]

The backing vocals for Skyfall kill it for me. Shame.

Muse shoulda did it.

 

[Gianakin_]

It's great to see, especially coming from Moore who would normally have a one-liner to respond to that sort of thing. Here it almost shows that his jovial personality is more of a facade to keep people out and maintain a humourous front, when in fact he might be more serious deep down.

Which is funny, because that's what Brosnan was trying to do and failed miserably imo. His serious moments were Spanish soap opera levels of melodrama.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Brosnan seemed like he was trying to hide his somewhat cruel nature underneath. I got the sense that his Bond was largely a bastard (Bahsted), and that he laid on the charm to hide his true nature.

Moore struck me as someone copeing with pain, but also an overall good guy despite the darkness.

 

[Dark Raven]

Which is funny, because that's what Brosnan was trying to do and failed miserably imo. His serious moments were Spanish soap opera levels of melodrama.

I think Moore is a better actor than Brosnan generally. I think he pulls off the one liners better as well. For a serious performance from him, watch "The Man Who Haunted Himself". I wish Moore had some of that darkness in his Bond portrayal.

And Moore as the Saint was better than Brosnan as Remmington Steele.

 

[Gianakin_]

Agreed, DR.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If Moore had started a decade earlier he would probably have been easily the third best Bond. At his best he is better then Brosnan, but he just started far to old in the role and thus the cheese factor was taken to new heights very early on. No different then Diamonds are Forever or DAD.