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The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 4

A lot of the film was a big cliche in itself

Right. And the story about the outcast/loner who must become a hero, fight an evil monster with a diabolical master plan- which the hero then prevents at the very last second with the countdown at 01:00- is the height of originality and devoid of any cliches.
 
Right. And the story about the outcast/loner who must become a hero, fight an evil monster with a diabolical master plan- which the hero then prevents at the very last second with the countdown at 01:00- is the height of originality and devoid of any cliches.

In the way it was told... Yes
 
So in other words, you want Carnage- a flat, one-dimensional "psychopath" villain that can barely carry his own comic arc without a boatload of guest stars, let alone a feature film.

No. You do know psychopaths can be complex people right? Watch the film 'We need to talk about Kevin.' Very interesting movie about a boy who was brought up well, but because his mother refrained from showing any affection he became a psychopath. It shows that some people have it in their mind already to become unhinged and the right care will tip the balance between being a massive force for good or a massive force for evil. He could be an example of someone who had a horrible upbringing. Which, if was better could make him a better human being. But instead he is a cold thug and the powers just give him the space to get revenge on the cold world. Many of the villains seemed like good guys at heart but go about things in the wrong way. Why can't we see someone who was corrupted from birth?
 
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer is about TWO psychopaths, and both of them are complex. Dexter is a complex character. Being a psychopath and being complex are not mutually exclusive.
 
My god people love bashing the Raimi movies and it makes no sense two of them were solid films. I don't think they were more cliched than The amazing spider-man.
 
Superhero movies ARE cliche. There's no avoiding it. Doesn't matter which movie you look at there will always be a way to make it seem like a total cliche. You know what you're getting yourself into when you sit down and watch a CBM. I don't see the problem with it considering every CBM out there is guilty of it.
 
I think cliche is the wrong word to use.

Maybe stereotypical is a better word for some of this. Like Raimi's portrayal of a nerd. It was stereotypical, not really cliche.
 
Nolan's Batman films aren't cliche

Guy becomes hero. Faces challenges and villain he can't beat. Decides to hang it up. Comes back after he determines that the world needs him.
 
Guy becomes hero. Faces challenges and villain he can't beat. Decides to hang it up. Comes back after he determines that the world needs him.

Couldn't have said it better, not to mention the character of Rachel Dawes was a walking cliche. The Nolan Batman films are overrated imo. Though Barman Begins was great!
 
I think cliche is the wrong word to use.

Maybe stereotypical is a better word for some of this. Like Raimi's portrayal of a nerd. It was stereotypical, not really cliche.

Yeah stereotypical may be a better word for it

mary jane being the popular girl that was into guys with cars seems abit stereotypical is not cliche also
 
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Dirt/grime doesn't cling to him in the first place.
 
My god people love bashing the Raimi movies and it makes no sense two of them were solid films. I don't think they were more cliched than The amazing spider-man.

Raimi's set of films were boring; he wasted the goblin and made Peter too meek. Visually, I find them very bland compared to TASM.
 
I love how we're so divisive when it comes to Raimi's Spiderman and Webb's. Especially given that I have to tell pretty much everyone I know that they're not the same actor, and that TASM is not a sequel to Spiderman 3.

It's like we're the guys in the corner of the playground who all like wrestling, but instead of sticking together, since we're all 'those weird wrestling guys' to everyone else, we're arguing that Hulk Hogan fans are silly and that The Rock is the be-all-end-all of this crazy girlfriend-preventing hobby. I love all things Spiderman. I love comparing the two movies, because they both show my favourite comic book character on the big screen in a different way, and they both appeal to me in the same way that on any given day, I might like milk in my coffee instead of my usual black :D
 
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Right. And the story about the outcast/loner who must become a hero, fight an evil monster with a diabolical master plan- which the hero then prevents at the very last second with the countdown at 01:00- is the height of originality and devoid of any cliches.

A lot of stories when broken down in their simplest form are actually quite similar:

Cassablanca / Of Mice and Men - a tale of sacrifice and hardship where the main character has to make hard choices and sacrifices to protect those whom he holds dear.

Enemy Mine / Comrade - two enemies of war are thrown together and realise that they aren't so different after all - friendship ensues.

Thor / Meet Joe Black - a god or powerful supernatural being becomes mortal and learns the value of love and humility.

Hamlet / Payback / The Count of Monte Cristo - a man devotes everything to taking revenge on the people who have wronged him by using deception, violence and cunning.

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples. The point is, there's a reason why these themes or plotlines are similar - they're universal to us; they appeal to us because they're things we can all identify with, that we all understand somehow, so we as the audience can engage with the story in a meaningful way. The only difference is how the stories are told, what phrases, nuances, narratives are used. But underneath all that, they're all essentially the same.

Does that make the story any less powerful? No.
 
No. You do know psychopaths can be complex people right? Watch the film 'We need to talk about Kevin.' Very interesting movie about a boy who was brought up well, but because his mother refrained from showing any affection he became a psychopath. It shows that some people have it in their mind already to become unhinged and the right care will tip the balance between being a massive force for good or a massive force for evil. He could be an example of someone who had a horrible upbringing. Which, if was better could make him a better human being. But instead he is a cold thug and the powers just give him the space to get revenge on the cold world. Many of the villains seemed like good guys at heart but go about things in the wrong way. Why can't we see someone who was corrupted from birth?

No one ever said that a "psychopathic" character can't be interesting or engaging. The tone of your initial post implies that you want a villain who's just a "bad guy" from the start and does "bad" things because he was born that way (crazy?).

You said:

For once I wanted to see a genuine psycho. Someone who doesn't give a s*** at all.

Yeah, that sounds like a really layered and multivalent character.

The only thing is that characters like these (particularly in superhero/comic book films) are not very interesting. They are one note and tiresome. Additionally, the "childhood trauma" angle is so trite and tired that it's an even more abused trope than your much maligned "sympathetic villains".

"We need to talk about Kevin" is a dramatic character piece,(though I didn't find it particularly interesting, complex or engaging). Is this what you're suggesting for a character like Carnage or Venom?
 
The villians will all have different personallitys, not just i'm bad because... IM BAD!! ROAR!!!
 
"A world without power, without mercy, a world without cliché movie villains"
 
"A world without power, without mercy, a world without cliché movie villains"

jamiefoxxmaxdillon.jpg
 

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