Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - Part 15

[Resistance61513]

I'll start by saying, I'll give Leto another chance. I think a lot of people are right in the sense that, we can't really judge this Joker just yet. Regardless of the screen time, we never got to see Batman and Joker square off. That disappointed me a little bit. I know a lot of people praised the fact that Batman wasn't in the film for very long. (They say the film would just be riding his coat tails essentially.)

But I would like to see how these two characters interact. I agree with some saying that Leto's Joker seemed a bit hammy/over the top. Leading up to this film, I was all for his design and really liked the different take. As some already stated, his bark seemed worse than his bite. I wasn't really creeped out or scared by the Joker. In my eyes, he didn't seem like a force to be reckoned with.

I think though there is a lot of potential to be had with this Joker. If they dialed him back a bit, made him more menacing/psychotic...something could resonate. The music video they recently released had some great Joker imagery. That's what I would hope for in the film. I want them to dive into how psychotic, narcissistic and essentially sociopathic he is. While it will probably turn a lot of people off to the character...who honestly cares? Do him right. Show that he is a crazy guy and that he opposes Batman with a certain intelligence and strategic play.

I believe there's something good here...it just needs the right person to direct and convey it. I think Affleck could do that job.

 

[Jekecy]

I'll start by saying, I'll give Leto another chance. I think a lot of people are right in the sense that, we can't really judge this Joker just yet. Regardless of the screen time, we never got to see Batman and Joker square off. That disappointed me a little bit. I know a lot of people praised the fact that Batman wasn't in the film for very long. (They say the film would just be riding his coat tails essentially.)

But I would like to see how these two characters interact. I agree with some saying that Leto's Joker seemed a bit hammy/over the top. Leading up to this film, I was all for his design and really liked the different take. As some already stated, his bark seemed worse than his bite. I wasn't really creeped out or scared by the Joker. In my eyes, he didn't seem like a force to be reckoned with.

I think though there is a lot of potential to be had with this Joker. If they dialed him back a bit, made him more menacing/psychotic...something could resonate. The music video they recently released had some great Joker imagery. That's what I would hope for in the film. I want them to dive into how psychotic, narcissistic and essentially sociopathic he is. While it will probably turn a lot of people off to the character...who honestly cares? Do him right. Show that he is a crazy guy and that he opposes Batman with a certain intelligence and strategic play.

I believe there's something good here...it just needs the right person to direct and convey it. I think Affleck could do that job.

Precisely my thoughts. I've said I wouldn't care if this was the last we've seen of this iteration, but I'd still be willing to give it another shot with a different creative team and story.

I've always stood by this design and perceptible direction (in spite of certain liberties I'm not a fan of) so there absolutely is untapped potential still left on the table. It's just a shame this is what they came running out the gate with. Like it or not, rather than the fresh slate they had going into this movie, now there's going to be a slight uphill battle in winning fans over with the next appearance.

 

[Smilodon]

Ledger's Joker is scarier.

Leto's Joker seems to be more dangerous. This seems like the kind of guy who'll do unholy things to your family. And he's got an agent and a coordinated gang of goons. I like his modern gangster aspect, and it really does feel like he's got a major hold of Gotham.

They're both different and have their own psychologies/ideologies. Ledger's is more of an anarchist psychopath with antisocial personality disorder. Leto is definitely a paranoid schizophrenic megalomaniac.

Heath's Joker broke Gotham's mobs over his knees. Not only did he have his own men in a small operation, but he manipulated other mobsters' and ended up taking their money, their men and even their dogs! Plus he manipulated a horde of other people into working for him. He was plenty criminal/mobster/gangster.

That being said, Leto deserves better material and more chances, but Heath's Joker is pretty absolute in terms of being Joker-like.

 

[Timebomb]

I just watched the Assault on Arkham film to cleanse my pallette. What a great depiction of the Joker. They didn't even need to do the choppy editing to make him creepier.

 

[RadioSha]

Heath's Joker broke Gotham's mobs over his knees. Not only did he have his own men in a small operation, but he manipulated other mobsters' and ended up taking their money, their men and even their dogs! Plus he manipulated a horde of other people into working for him. He was plenty criminal/mobster/gangster.

That being said, Leto deserves better material and more chances, but Heath's Ledger is pretty absolute in terms of being Joker-like.

Not at all gangster. I think at his heart it was to create chaos, not power. And that's why he was able to beat all the other gangs. Not being gangster is not a slight to Ledger's Joker. Gangsters want their power, their turf. Ledger's Joker didn't want none (half) of that. Leto's Joker looks like he's been accumulating power.

I think Leto was very materialistic too (surrounded by knives, bombs, laptops, baby clothes to hide bombs, flowers, a piano, chinese food, etc.)

Ledget on the other hand... likes gunpowder and gaaaaaasoooline.

So no. But all films are subjective so you can go ahead living your life believing whatever you want to believe. Free country.

 

[Guts]

Heath's Joker broke Gotham's mobs over his knees. Not only did he have his own men in a small operation, but he manipulated other mobsters' and ended up taking their money, their men and even their dogs! Plus he manipulated a horde of other people into working for him. He was plenty criminal/mobster/gangster.

That being said, Leto deserves better material and more chances, but Heath's Joker is pretty absolute in terms of being Joker-like.

I actually wouldn't mind if the solo Batman movie is a prequel and we get to see Joker rise to prominence in the criminal underworld.

 

[The Joker]

Not at all gangster. I think at his heart it was to create chaos, not power. And that's why he was able to beat all the other gangs. Not being gangster is not a slight to Ledger's Joker. Gangsters want their power, their turf. Ledger's Joker didn't want none (half) of that. Leto's Joker looks like he's been accumulating power.

Joker: "Tell your men they work for me now. This is MY city"

He wanted turf and power. Owning Gotham meant he could do what he wanted with it. He just wasn't driven by money like regular criminals were. That's why he burned the money to send that message. He was ushering in a new class of criminal that just doesn't care about money.

Nicholson's Joker was similar. He took over the underworld by killing off the competition, and then showed his disregard for money by dumping 20 million bucks on Gotham. Plus his plot to murder Gotham citizens with Smilex had no profit in it what so ever.

 

[PacificBoy]

I like Leto's look and he had great chemistry with Margot Robbie, but I think the movie via Waller's proclamation that Harley was crazier than him, compounded by Harley's seeming true desire to lead a normal life with a very normal Joker, undermined his characterization in the movie for me.

 

[The Joker]

I just watched the Assault on Arkham film to cleanse my pallette. What a great depiction of the Joker. They didn't even need to do the choppy editing to make him creepier.

Now that is an awesome Suicide Squad story.

I like Leto's look and he had great chemistry with Margot Robbie, but I think the movie via Waller's proclamation that Harley was crazier than him, compounded by Harley's seeming true desire to lead a normal life with a very normal Joker, undermined his characterization in the movie for me.

Oh yeah that was truly dreadful. It's clear Ayer has no real grasp on the Harley/Joker relationship. Joker spending the movie pining to be with his gf was bad enough, but seeing Harley wish for a normal life, with normal kids, in a normal house, with a normal looking Jared Leto was the last straw. It implies Harley would prefer Joker be normal, rather than being a freaky clown.

 

[RadioSha]

Joker: "Tell your men they work for me now. This is MY city"

He wanted turf and power. Owning Gotham meant he could do what he wanted with it. He just wasn't driven by money like regular criminals were. That's why he burned the money to send that message. He was ushering in a new class of criminal that just doesn't care about money.

Nicholson's Joker was similar. He took over the underworld by killing off the competition, and then showed his disregard for money by dumping 20 million bucks on Gotham. Plus his plot to murder Gotham citizens with Smilex had no profit in it what so ever.

I don't think he wanted the city at all. There wouldn't be a point having that game between the two ships if he just wanted the city. But he did it anyways. He's almost omnipotent in how he's able to pull off what he did. But he did it because he's an anarchist. He didn't want control. Gangsters want control of something ultimately. Ledger's Joker is, by his existance, not at all about that.

You're like saying Donald Trump is the greatest politician because he was able to swindle and break politicians. He's not a politician. He doesn't know how to govern or understand the extent of his jurisdiction in terms of legislating laws. BUUUT, he turned out to be better than them (being the nominee, not as a person. Oh god no).

And don't be offended. Ledger's Joker is my favorite Joker. He's no gangster though. Just different. And that's what makes the Joker character (and like Batman) have such longevity- adaptations and interpretations.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think he wanted the city at all. There wouldn't be a point having that game between the two ships if he just wanted the city. But he did it anyways. He's almost omnipotent in how he's able to pull off what he did. But he did it because he's an anarchist. He didn't want control. Gangsters want control of something ultimately. Ledger's Joker is, by his existance, not at all about that.

You're like saying Donald Trump is the greatest politician because he was able to swindle and break politicians. He's not a politician. He doesn't know how to govern or understand the extent of his jurisdiction in terms of legislating laws. BUUUT, he turned out to be better than them (being the nominee, not as a person. Oh god no).

And don't be offended. Ledger's Joker is my favorite Joker. He's no gangster though. Just different. And that's what makes the Joker character (and like Batman) have such longevity- adaptations and interpretations.

How does the game with the two ferries affect his ownership of Gotham? The game with the ferries was to prove a point. That deep down everyone is as ugly as he is. You know taken from The Killing Joke. Some citizens and convicts blowing each other up doesn't affect his take over of Gotham at all.

I'm not offended, I'm just arguing your point because it's incorrect and is contradicted by the facts stated in the movie.

 

[RadioSha]

How does the game with the two ferries affect his ownership of Gotham? The game with the ferries was to prove a point. That deep down everyone is as ugly as he is. You know taken from The Killing Joke. Some citizens and convicts blowing each other up doesn't affect his take over of Gotham at all.

I'm not offended, I'm just arguing your point because it's incorrect and is contradicted by the facts stated in the movie.

And that's my point. It's not him trying to be a gangster. He's the Joker. He's anarchist Joker. He wants the ugly out of people. "Taking over" is semantics. You can either view it as getting control or unleashing chaos.

My point, since you apparently didn't listen, is that Ledger's was a psychopathic anarchist and Leto was a psychotic megalomaniac. Don't get ******** about the specifics of being a "gangster"

Heck everyone's a gangster. Amanda Waller was a gangster because that was gangstah lol

EDIT: Definition of gangster according to Merriam-Webster: a member of a group of violent criminals. Everyone's a gangster, broski lmao

 

[The Joker]

And that's my point. It's not him trying to be a gangster. He's the Joker. He's anarchist Joker. He wants the ugly out of people. "Taking over" is semantics. You can either view it as getting control or unleashing chaos.

My point, since you apparently didn't listen, is that Ledger's was an psychopathic anarchist and Leto was a psychotic megalomaniac. Don't get ******** about the specifics of being a "gangster"

Heck everyone's a gangster. Amanda Waller was a gangster because that was gangstah lol

Well of course he's not a gangster. Gangsters don't do the stuff the Joker does. They're motivated strictly by money. Joker's not. It's why it's so off putting to see Letoker owning a strip joint and going around wearing gangster garb and bling bling jewelry. Just doesn't feel like the Joker.

If they wanted a club owner villain obsessed with wealth then use The Penguin and his Iceberg Lounge.

But that doesn't mean Joker doesn't want power or to take over turf, because it suits his ends. He's not an idiot. He may not care about money but he knows it has its uses.

 

[RadioSha]

Well of course he's not a gangster. Gangsters don't do the stuff the Joker does. They're motivated strictly by money. Joker's not. It's why it's so off putting to see Letoker owning a strip joint and going around wearing gangster garb and bling bling jewelry. Just doesn't feel like the Joker.

If they wanted a club owner villain obsessed with wealth then use The Penguin and his Iceberg Lounge.

But that doesn't mean Joker doesn't want power or to take over turf, because it suits his ends. He's not an idiot. He may not care about money but he knows it has its uses.

And that's where we agree. I wonder what kind of new Joker we're going to get in another 10-ish years.

Heath's felt a little mythic like Batman- maybe pushed closer on that spectrum in the future. I hope we get a more shadowy, historic, mythic, Endgame Joker who really plays on the creepy clown side instead of the political disarray or gangster elements.

 

[Guts]

Well of course he's not a gangster. Gangsters don't do the stuff the Joker does. They're motivated strictly by money. Joker's not. It's why it's so off putting to see Letoker owning a strip joint and going around wearing gangster garb and bling bling jewelry. Just doesn't feel like the Joker.

If they wanted a club owner villain obsessed with wealth then use The Penguin and his Iceberg Lounge.

But that doesn't mean Joker doesn't want power or to take over turf, because it suits his ends. He's not an idiot. He may not care about money but he knows it has its uses.

The Iceberg Lounge is listed in the Time Out Shortlist Gotham. The description of the place said that Oswald Cobblepot owns it, live penguins are kept there, and the Falcone and Maroni crime families frequent the place.

 

[titansupes]

Exactly! It wouldn’t be the Joker if he wasn’t funny; it’s a fundamental part of the character.

I thought Leto had one funny moment. When he has the guard kiss his ring and instantly hops on his lap saying "I can tell you really meant that".

 

[RadioSha]

I thought Leto had one funny moment. When he has the guard kiss his ring and instantly hops on his lap saying "I can tell you really meant that".

I like his "beef" line with Monster T.

 

[Wildcard]

I like his "beef" line with Monster T.

Yep, that moment was funnier for me. Largely because the whole scene he's mocking him by even offering Harley to him in the first place.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Leto was ok in the role but I felt like he was kind of holding back. He needed to be a little bit more over the top and his voice needed to be a bit more high pitch. But he most def. needs to work on that laugh, it felt like he was laughing and they added a slow motion filter to it.

 

[RadioSha]

Leto was ok in the role but I felt like he was kind of holding back. He needed to be a little bit more over the top and his voice needed to be a bit more high pitch. But he most def. needs to work on that laugh, it felt like he was laughing and they added a slow motion filter to it.

I don't know man.

I love his laugh when he's in the vat of chemicals with Harley.

 

[Knightfall]

On a slightly unrelated note, anyone notice how cheap the makeup looked in the "Purple Lamborghini" music vid?

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I just watched the Assault on Arkham film to cleanse my pallette. What a great depiction of the Joker. They didn't even need to do the choppy editing to make him creepier.

That movie was complete garbage lol

 

[Knight-Tale]

The whole scene of him offering Harley is because he disrespected her in front of him.
Joker then made him play a game where the only outcome is pissing him off enough to the point of him killing you.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

He was too mobster-ish, versus the crazy, yet intelligent criminal he usually is. But even that wouldn't have thrown me off if not for his outright love for Harley Quinn. Joker has never been in love with Harley, she has always been a means to an end. He uses her and dumps her and her love for him always brings her back. Here, Joker is shown to be in love back with her, always on the mission to break her out, even showing jealousy when others look at her. Joker loves one person: Batman. Sure it's complicated love, but it's pretty clear in all other media. And so, this Joker does not work for me.

I have recently been told this was based on Azzarello's interpretation of the Joker, one I haven't read. Even so, if it's like this, it isn't a take I like. Somewhere in there, Leto can be a great Joker, I can tell. The writing needs to be far different though.

 

[Jig96v]

I don't think it's fair to decry Jared's Joker based on what he doesn't do, especially when we know the majority of his footage was cut out of the film. With the movie as-is, he doesn't do anything the Joker wouldn't. Yes, he spends the whole movie trying to get Harley back, but I don't remember it ever being stated that it's because he just can't bear to be without his love. Afterall, it was him abandoning her in the Joker mobile that caused their separation in the first place, and he didn't seem to be in any rush to get her back while she was in prison all that time.

I instead view it as (and suspect that the original intent was) the Joker not wanting Harley off doing her own thing and acting independently of him. Harley's whole arc is realising that she doesn't need Joker, and obviously he doesn't want that to happen; he wants to stifle her in order to keep her at his beck and call at all times (on his own terms, of course). He's trying to reign her back in under his control, which she interprets as her romantic hero coming to her rescue, and he knows it. It's all part of the manipulation.

The final scene of him breaking in to retrieve Harley may have been something added in the reshoots (no burnt face), but regardless, feels more like setup for the Batman solo with the line "Let's go home," in which case, Joker may specifically need Harley for his latest plan to wind up Batman, as again, time seems to have passed wherein Joker wasn't concerned with getting her back at any cost.

At any rate, I enjoyed and was fascinated by Jared's Joker. I can't wait for him to get the chance to show us the reasons behind all the creative choices they've made with this take, something he didn't get to do here with his limited screentime.