Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - Part 15

[DeadStroke]

A lot of posts are being deleted..

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Yeah I noticed that.

 

[Timebomb]

So I am in the boat that Leto did nothing special with the role. There was no great moment for me where I bought him as the clown prince of crime. Did it get cut? I don't know. Maybe I will see a cut scene and it hits but shouldn't this movie have done that for the character. I can't rest my hopes on maybes. For me, there was nothing special so currently my hope is for a Joker reboot.

 

[regnak]

Help me out here people, about the cut scenes. Why is Joker strapping Harley down and frying her brains ok but the cut scenes with slapping her is going too far?


The former should do brain damage and the latter facial bruising. I know what seems worse to me.

 

[The Joker]

Most of us assumed that Leto would have at least 15 mins though.

He had 7. Some even say 6.

Lets break it down

Spoilers for those who haven't seen the movie

- One quick shot of them in a therapy session
- One quick shot of him torturing Harley
- The Monster T scene seems like 7 minute scene cut down to one minute.
-30 second car chase scene
- The 20 second scene of him laying around the knives
- A minute scene with the security guard (He was losing me for a second, but when he jumped into lap and grinned I chuckled. Seemed a bit TDKR there.) still a another scene shortened.
- The quick scene of him putting the neck bomb gun into someone's neck
- The flashback of him and Harley at Ace Chemicals. Another scene that was probably 6 or 7 mins cut down to 2 mins.
- The 2 minute scene on the chopper. Where all he's doing is firing a gun (great), says a few lines to Harley and the chopper is blown up.
- 15 seconds of seeing her at the end.

All this over the course of 6 to 7 mins.

I've seen all kinds of estimations on his screen time, from 5-15 minutes. People are either underestimating or overestimating. Several of your estimates here look way off. For example the "20 second scene of him lying on the floor with knives laughing" was preceded by him talking to Hoyt Fortenberry about where Harley is.

Monster T scene was longer than 1 minute; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnkpXIgwCFo

Thats a writing issue, not a performance issue.

It is a performance issue because his performance was neutered by the horrible writing of reducing Joker into a love sick puppy pining for his Harley.

Also, i didn't say you praised Affleck but the majority of people do for some reason.

I don't get it either. But I don't think either he or Leto deserve any praise for what we saw of them in these movies. Its a sad introduction for both of these legendary characters into the DCEU.

So I am in the boat that Leto did nothing special with the role. There was no great moment for me where I bought him as the clown prince of crime. Did it get cut? I don't know. Maybe I will see a cut scene and it hits but shouldn't this movie have done that for the character. I can't rest my hopes on maybes. For me, there was nothing special so currently my hope is for a Joker reboot.

Thing is you can only judge what we got, not what we may or may not get or may have gotten. What we got was lame.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't think any amount of additional footage or a changed role could really improve this Joker for me. What really killed this take for me, above what I felt was missing the point of the Joker/Harley relationship, was Leto's performance that's about as enjoyable as a toddler screaming in your face for the duration of his mercifully short screen time.

 

[Timebomb]

And there is no reason to think that the cut footage just isn't more of the same.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Yeah I had a re-watch of it on Sunday with a friend who I promised to see it with and I don't feel any extra footage would make up for issues with Leto's performance.

 

[Timebomb]

I just thought of something that made me cringe. Can you imagine a World's Finest movie in this DCEU with this Lex and Joker. So which one of you is supposed to be the Joker?

 

[MasterChief2829]

I like his body language and how he gets across so much

 

[Bantam99]

I just thought of something that made me cringe. Can you imagine a World's Finest movie in this DCEU with this Lex and Joker. So which one of you is supposed to be the Joker?

This can be said about worlds finest Batman and Superman. Which o e is supposed to be Batman?

 

[Wildcard]

I like his body language and how he gets across so much

Yeah. Aside from the Arkham/club scenes, I think the acid bath is my favorite.

 

[The Shape]

I just can't jive with the Hannibal comparison for the simple fact even in the very scenes Leto was in, he doesn't even get to really perform beyond saying a few lines and disappearing off again. Literally not a single scene of letting the audience sink into this character.

Hannibal/Clarice's first scene alone left a lasting impression and didn't need the rest of the film for us to know it was a special performance. That's largely in part thanks to Hopkins, but the so too the dialog, the direction, and playing off of Jodie.

Leto did not have that opportunity and was absolutely short-changed by the editing. I'll be the first to say this introduction was a dud. But I won't write it off until he has the surrounding material and crew, where my finger can't point anywhere else but to him.

I think it's funny that people are now using the Hannibal Lecter comparisons to put down Leto's Joker, suggesting that a limited amount of screen time shouldn't affect an actor's performance or that any quality character should be able to make an amazing impression in 10 minutes time.

I would often cite Lecter as an example of how a character can be memorable and effective despite having a small amount of screen time, but this is not that. What we saw of Lecter in SOTL was nearly exactly what we were intended to see all along. His role in the story wasn't reduced or lessened or toned down. Bits of his scenes weren't trimmed down to the bare minimum time needed say or do something before moving on to the next scene. His scenes weren't sloppily edited and appearing at random within the film. Beyond that, even with his short amount of screen time, Lecter was hugely integrel to the main plot in the film and he therefore had a huge impact on the entire film.

I can't imagine something like even 6 minutes of screen time getting shaved off of Lecter's scenes in SOTL. That would be like half of his conversations with Clarice and who knows what else. I don't know how Lecter could have had the same presence over the plot or come off as memorable and frightening without seeing him exactly as we did in SOTL.

 

[Assassin32]

This also ultimately has nothing to do with quantity (amount of screen time) vs. quality. I'm getting the sense you haven't completely read my posts on the matter, which your prerogative. The point is not that "more minutes of screen time automatically equals better performance and character". It's about what is in those minutes of screen time -- character beats, dialogue, actions, mannerisms, different plot elements, motivations, etc.

For instance, some of the chief complains about Leto's Joker as he was shown in the film are that he wasn't threatening enough, comes off as a love-sick puppy who just wants his girlfriend back, and the relationship between The Joker and Harley was romanticized and watered down. It seems the original version would have painted a different picture of him and his relationship with Harley, potentially alleviating some of those concerns -- not because simply because he would have been in the film more, but because his role in the film and his interactions with Harley would have been different.

I'm well aware that you're of the opinion that these scrapped Joker scenes you've never seen and know very little about will somehow depart from the rest of Ayer's script and offer rich character development. But when you pare down your long-winded explanations, all you are left with is speculation. Pure speculation. The kind of speculation that has become a phenomenon among rabid fanboys. The kind of speculation that sounds a lot like denial.

I am not being gullible or making assumptions when I say that the scenes left out likely earned their way out. There is a word for how I have arrived at my current stance on the matter: deduction.

Sure there were reshoots. Sure the studio had something to say about the workprint. That's par for the course with a $175 million movie. But artists and businessmen don't always butt heads when exchanging notes. Do you think WB told Ayer, "Less Joker, please"? Probably not. They remember 1989 and 2008, and they especially remember how much money they made. They let Heath Ledger be a veritable terrorist the last time out; this time, I find it a bit difficult to believe that they simply strong-armed the director whose script they approved--and over a *****-slap.

You've culled your opinion on the cuts based on speculation. Based on the misplaced disappointment of likeminded fans. Based on things you've heard on the Internet and not on anything you've seen or otherwise experienced yourself. On a conspiracy theory, really. I, on the other hand, have culled my opinion on the published word of the man who wrote and directed the damn thing.

Luckily for us, a Blu-ray should be out by Christmas, and that will end the debate for everybody.

 

[DeadStroke]

There's no way I know for sure Leto would have given a great performance with more screen time.

I do know the lack of screen time severely hurt his character. 7 minutes? I don't think that works unless we saw him as one of the leads in another film.

Since people are using SOTL I'll say what I said earlier.

I'd rather they scrapped all the steal back Harley story line.

Just show me a 6 minute scene of Harley and Joker in Arkham and I would have had a better chance of telling you if his Joker works or not.

We needed a scene of Joker just talking or better yet selling us on who he is. Understand the psychosis of his character. Then have him show up at the end to save Harley.

He was here and gone too many times. I liked what I saw, but I won't know if its good until he's in another movie.

 

[MasterChief2829]

Part of the issue is with the writing too. I mean... "this hunka hunka" ???,

 

[marcvader]

I just didn't like his take of the character. The writing was a completely different issue as well.

 

[kguillou]

The more I think of it the more it is BAFFLING that no one. Not ONE studio exec mandates from day one that Joker would be the villain in this film. They knew damn well he was gonna be the appeal of the movie, seriously, nobody told Ayer that THE FREAKING JOKER was going to be a main character??

 

[Flint Marko]

I didn't dislike the character but I wasn't moved. Underwhelming would be the best way to put it, particularly in light of the marketing and Leto's well-publicized antics. Oh, and those tattoos are still awful.

 

[Akimych]

Spoiler

 

[The Shape]

Part of the issue is with the writing too. I mean... "this hunka hunka" ???,

I'm surprised that this line has become a point of contention for some people.

Since when is it not cool or against type for The Joker to say cheesy, silly things and act like a clown?

 

[WitchTrialz]

I'm surprised that this line has become a point of contention for some people.

Since when is it not cool or against type for The Joker to say cheesy, silly things and act like a clown?

Jack Nicholson could have just as easily said that line and gotten a pass. I loved his quips. He just needs work on it more, he needs new direction and a tweak to his look

Also, ditch the grills and he actually would sound better instantly. He did the voice for just a sec on (Fallon I think?) and he sounded much more audible and crisp. Those grills were holding him back

 

[The Joker]

I'm surprised that this line has become a point of contention for some people.

Since when is it not cool or against type for The Joker to say cheesy, silly things and act like a clown?

It isn't. Its the issue that that line and others he said were flat out cringeworthy.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yeah I had a re-watch of it on Sunday with a friend who I promised to see it with and I don't feel any extra footage would make up for issues with Leto's performance.

your avatar is wonderful.

10 out of 10 would damage again

 

[The Shape]

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