Jared Leto IS The Joker - Part 9

[regwec]

What do you "have with Joker and Jason", other than the fact that there is no precedent whatsoever for them being the same person?

Clayface is always disguising himself as other people. There is a strong precedent for that. And loads of people don't like this Lex Luthor, right? So maybe he is really Clayface.

 

[WitchTrialz]

There's nothing implying that Lex is Clayface...or that Clayface is Lex.
What we have with Joker and Jason, are things of the past to go on, and a few coincidences that suggest some merit of possible proof

Didn't you see the tattoo of a lump of clay on Lexs arm? Hes totally clayface!

 

[regwec]

Also, his statement that "devils don't come from the ground beneath us" was a clear allusion to soil/dirt/clay. ClayLex was toying with the audience there.

 

[Rodrigo90]

What do you "have with Joker and Jason", other than the fact that there is no precedent whatsoever for them being the same person?

Clayface is always disguising himself as other people. There is a strong precedent for that. And loads of people don't like this Lex Luthor, right? So maybe he is really Clayface.

Well, give me a day or so and I'll come up with a precedent for it

But right now...He's what we have.

"Twenty years in Gotham... how many good guys are left?"
"How many stay that way?"
Then it cuts to Joker's scribbles, that happen to be on Robin's costume, that happen to have holes in two spots, that coincidentally happen to be in the positions that Leto has marks on his body...

Didn't you see the tattoo of a lump of clay on Lexs arm? Hes totally clayface!

I thought the mop of hair was clay?

 

[Greens]

Why in God's name would Jason adopt the Joker persona, if the bullet wound thing is true? Someone kills him, and for some godforsaken reason he IMMEDIATELY becomes the Joker and sends Batman the suit with the message on it.

 

[The Joker]

Well Jason in the comics adopted the Red Hood persona, which was an alias Joker used once.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Why in God's name would Jason adopt the Joker persona, if the bullet wound thing is true? Someone kills him, and for some godforsaken reason he IMMEDIATELY becomes the Joker and sends Batman the suit with the message on it.

They could be holes where Joker had Jason hanging on meathooks, while he tortured and brainwashed him into becoming like him...

 

[Rodrigo90]

Well Jason in the comics adopted the Red Hood persona, which was an alias Joker used once.

 

[Greens]

Well Jason in the comics adopted the Red Hood persona, which was an alias Joker used once.

Yes, but that happened because of the way he was resurrected. He was no longer the same person.

I can understand that Jason would harbor resentment toward Batman for not coming to his rescue, but BECOMING his would-be killer right after?

 

[Greens]

They could be holes where Joker had Jason hanging on meathooks, while he tortured and brainwashed him into becoming like him...

You literally just made that up.

 

[Rodrigo90]

You literally just made that up.

I did, yes

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yes, but that happened because of the way he was resurrected. He was no longer the same person.

I can understand that Jason would harbor resentment toward Batman for not coming to his rescue, but BECOMING his would-be killer right after?

It could happen. Happened with Dick in TDKSA and Tim in ROTJ. Torture. Drugs. Brainwashing.

 

[The Joker]

Yes, but that happened because of the way he was resurrected. He was no longer the same person.

Well sort of, it was more implied that the Lazarus pit made him unstable. The comics state the reason why he turned on Batman, and became a more brutal anti hero, was because Batman didn't avenge his death and kill the Joker.

Who's to say something similar could not be done in the movies?

I can understand that Jason would harbor resentment toward Batman for not coming to his rescue, but BECOMING his would-be killer right after?

But we don't know this version of Joker wants to kill Batman do we. He could be like many comic versions of Joker, or Ledger's Joker, where he would rather challenge and toy with Batman instead of killing him.

Which I think is infinitely more interesting because most of Batman villains want to kill him. It's a more refreshing and interesting dynamic having Joker wanting him around for fun.

 

[Greens]

But we don't know this version of Joker wants to kill Batman do we. He could be like many comic versions of Joker, or Ledger's Joker, where he would rather challenge and toy with Batman instead of killing him.

Which I think is infinitely more interesting because most of Batman villains want to kill him. It's a more refreshing and interesting dynamic having Joker wanting him around for fun.

With would-be killer I meant Joker. Joker failed to kill Jason.

For the record, I wouldn't go out with my pitchfork if this theory turned out to be true. If Snyder and Ayer can pull it off convincingly, more power to them. I just don't think there is any concrete evidence that it's happening.

I'm reluctant about fan theories because any time a theory's supporters get their way, the skeptics are retroactively lauded as stupid as if the truth was staring them right in the face the whole time.

 

[roach]

Joker is clearly Jason
Joker is a man
Jason is a man
It's so simple

 

[regwec]

Maybe the "real" Joker invents a special kind of bullet that turns people into Joker-clones when they are shot with them. He turns Jason into The Joker by shooting him with one of these bullets and, after Jasoker gets hold of the Smilexpistol, he shoots Dr Quinn with it.

 

[WitchTrialz]

Lol^

So consider this thought true believers...
The suicide squad trailer shows joker in a scene involving him with a tied up Harleen quinzel. We know that she is Dr. Quinzel at this moment because of the doctor getup. You can't deny that this is showing Harley's transformation into Harley Quinn by the jokers hand.

If this is indeed Jason Todd, then that means In this universe, Robin is responsible for creating Harley Quinn. Not only that but he's seen interacting with her in other scenes.

Are you guys really comfortable with that ?
Your rebuttals please?

I'm still awaiting thoughts and comments on this...

Majik? Rodrigo? Thoughts?

 

[SiegePerilous]

Okay I hate this theory, so don't take this the wrong way but: just because there is no precedent for Jason Todd transforming into the Joker like there is with Dick and Tim, doesn't mean it can't happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the WB execs and David Ayer view all the Robins as interchangeable anyway (because they kind of are), kind of like how it's very possible for the dead Robin to be Dick in this.

But like I said, this theory is otherwise pretty dumb and has a very small chance of being legit. For some reason, some fans are more offended by the tattoos than they are of the thought of Robin being the one to drive Harleen Quinzel insane. That is a far bigger and more baffling departure from the source material than the Joker putting some ink on his body and having metal teeth after Batman punched his real ones out.

And really, that Robin suit looked totally destroyed. It doesn't make any sense for the person wearing it to be alive, nor for Bruce to display it in a memorial if Robin is not only alive but a raving psychopath now. There really is no need for such a twist in the first place, because the Joker being the Joker is enough to draw the audience in in droves, both casuals and die hards alike. I doubt they'd risk pissing off the fanbase over this. It'd be like the MoS debates X1000, and not worth it.

 

[regwec]

Of course the lack of a precedent doesn't mean it can't happen, but it does remove the most salient (though erroneous) argument for it.

 

[The Joker]

With would-be killer I meant Joker. Joker failed to kill Jason.

For the record, I wouldn't go out with my pitchfork if this theory turned out to be true. If Snyder and Ayer can pull it off convincingly, more power to them. I just don't think there is any concrete evidence that it's happening.

I'm reluctant about fan theories because any time a theory's supporters get their way, the skeptics are retroactively lauded as stupid as if the truth was staring them right in the face the whole time.

I take most fan theories with a pinch of salt, too.

For the record Jason-Joker is like the last thing I want to see either. I'd take a tattooed grills mouth Joker over that any day. But the idea that it may happen is definitely something that merits discussion, as there is a sizable history of Robins being Jokers. It's not like saying Harley Quinn could actually be Catwoman or something.

But lets face it some CBMs have made some really crazy and drastic changes to the source material. People are just theorizing, and presenting ideas and beliefs. Nobody is saying it's definitely 100% true. It's why it's unfair they get called out for trolling or what ever just because other people don't want to entertain the idea.

 

[regwec]

It isn't that this idea is uniquely repugnant, but that it is given a unique amount of space. There is no good reason for that, when it is no more compelling or likely than any number of feeble fan-fiction theories we could devise right here.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Of course the lack of a precedent doesn't mean it can't happen, but it does remove the most salient (though erroneous) argument for it.

Agreed on that at least. Plus, one of the examples of Robin becoming the Joker (Tim in RoTJ) was having his body literally hijacked by the Joker himself, or at least an exact genetic duplicate.

So that leaves the one story where a Robin becomes the Joker of his own will as TDKSA, which everybody hates. I don't see anything too enticing for the filmmakers to adapt here.

 

[Majik1387]

Lol^

So consider this thought true believers...
The suicide squad trailer shows joker in a scene involving him with a tied up Harleen quinzel. We know that she is Dr. Quinzel at this moment because of the doctor getup. You can't deny that this is showing Harley's transformation into Harley Quinn by the jokers hand.

If this is indeed Jason Todd, then that means In this universe, Robin is responsible for creating Harley Quinn. Not only that but he's seen interacting with her in other scenes.

Are you guys really comfortable with that ?
Your rebuttals please?

Like I mentioned before, I can see Leto playing two Jokers if need be. The true Joker we all know and love, and Dick Grayson/Jason Todd Joker possibility.

True Joker turned Harley, "killed" Dick/Jason, which I personally believe takes place prior to Robin's death, considering Harley has already been arrested/captured by Batman by time of SS creation.

And while you're not the one who mentioned it, I am going to respond to how stupid and incomparable the idea of Lex/Clayface is.
Most you got is Clayface pretending to be the lead villain of a story(video game: Arkham City). Other than that you got nothing.

However, I've posted enough times how many times past Robins have become villains, sometimes Joker specifically.

• One example is from an Elseworlds comic where Batman's suits are literally straightly adapted from.
• Leto Joker also has a Robin tattoo; true it could be a reminder/advertisement of his "killing" Dick/Jason, but it can also be a repressed psychotic memory of his past life as the Boy Wonder.
• The Robin suit being used is also clearly inspired by Robin of the Arkham games, but for some reason uses the shorts, and Dick and Jason are the only male Robins to have rocked the shorts look.
• I'm not sold on the bullet scars/scratches theory, so I'm not going to defend them.
• As for it being a "hokey twist." Sure, it might be for some comic fans, but to the general audience, it will be entirely new; as for how they'd receive it if it happens we won't know til they see it.
• Also, as Rodrigo keeps bringing up, is Batman's dialogue in the trailer: "Twenty years in Gotham... how many good guys are left?"
  "How many stay that way?"
  Cut to Joker's graffiti, that happen to be on Robin's costume.
  It could be the trailer editing or it can mean more, that's where the speculation of the fans kick in, like we're doing now.
• As for why Dick/Jason would take on the Joker persona, it'd be based more on a psychotic break; Jason Todd took the Red Hood moniker after being 'reborn', Tim Drake took on the moniker after being tortured by Joker, Dick Grayson took the moniker while criminally insane and experimented on. If you've ever watched The United States of Tara it can also be explained as a DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder.

And like I've said countless times, I won't be bothered if this Joker is pure Joker, or if he's a past Robin as Joker, but to try and say the theory has no merit whatsoever, or that reaching/creating for something as dumb as Clayface Lex is the same is honestly outright stupid and ignorant.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Hey guys, call me when we are talking about Jared Leto's Joker again and not obsessing over a reddit theory. Kthxbye

 

[Majik1387]

Bye Phelicia.