The Rise of Skywalker JJ Abrams is Writing and Directing Episode IX

[Frodo]

I think that's likely along the lines of what he means, although I do think TFA absolutely has a meta aspects to its story too, even if it maybe wasn't intended. TFA is what kind of started that whole trajectory, what with the main antagonist being a self-aware character who knows the history of the galaxy and struggles with being in the shadow of Darth Vader, and a main hero who is essentially a Star Wars 'fan' who 'collects' old Star Wars stuff.

I think that aspect of it just can't really be helped when you're having directors step in the shoes of this legacy so many years later. I think it inevitably starts becoming ABOUT Star Wars.

Like Terrio said in that Empire interview though, TLJ does the thing "that all great second acts do-- create the antithesis". I think that's really the pendulum swing that J.J. is referring to. It puts them in a position to then create the synthesis, for the trilogy and the saga as a whole. And going full circle to threads from the original film is basically trilogy 101 stuff.

I'd agree that both of the new films have been pretty meta . I'm skeptical though JJ really agree's with Terrio statement about the perfect antithesis in reference to how it applies to the execution of TLJ. However, I do think that Abrams is clearly trying create a synthesis between what Johnson did and the other films .

While I'm iffy about Palpatine returning , it does make sense if TROS is truly meant to end the "Skywalker " saga.

Then again, the question becomes whether Episode 9 needed to tie all 9 films to begin with, or whether it needed to just be an end of the storylines of the ST . I guess that's something that will be debated for years to come.

 

[BatLobster]

What 'Star Wars' beef? J.J. Abrams is 'nothing but grateful' for Rian Johnson's 'The Last Jedi'

In an interview with Yahoo Entertainment last week, however, Abrams had high praise for Johnson, even if he admittedly felt The Last Jedi didn't go where he expected it to in terms of uniting the saga's three main heroes, Rey (Ridley), Finn (Boyega) and Poe Dameron (Oscar Isaac).

"Rian is an incredibly talented director, I don't know if you've seen Knives Out, but I loved it. Just an incredibly talented guy and a great storyteller," Abrams told us (watch clip above). "So when he came on to work on the next film, and we were just starting to shoot [The Force Awakens], I was really excited to see where he would go and what he would do. And it's funny because one of the things that I was [thinking] at first [was], 'Oh, I really want to see all the friends together.' And in his story, they really weren't. [Rey] doesn't really meet Poe until the end. Rey and Finn are not really together in the movie. So in a way the story that he told in a lot of ways helped set up what we're doing in IX [The Rise of Skywalker]. But it also allowed Episode IX to have the group together and out on an adventure in a way that weirdly, even though it's the third film, it's the first time they all get to be together."

As more than a few commenters have pointed on Twitter, it was Abrams who separated the trio in the first place at the end of The Force Awakens – though clearly he's indicating he expected them to be reunited at some point in The Last Jedi.

Still, Abrams clearly holds Johnson (and his film) in high regard: "There were a lot of details [and] story points that Rian set up in Last Jedi that [we] run with in this movie," he continued. "I don't think this movie would've been nearly what it is without the choices that Rian made, so I'm nothing but grateful."

 

[BatLobster]

Enjoyable interview here:

 

[Elayis]

After accidentally stumbling across the leaked spoilers for TRoS (which for some strange reason also wound up in a Burger King ad), I'm convinced that Abrams was the wrong person to tackle Star Wars. He may have made the Mouse a buttload and converted a new generation of fans, but creatively speaking the franchise more than ever feels like it's running on fumes. How long can Disney milk the nostalgia gravy train without doing anything new or interesting? This is exactly what I was afraid of after Rogue One came out, and unfortunately my misgivings have been confirmed.

I'm amazed but not surprised by how completely he missed the point of TLJ and what Johnson was trying to do for the franchise. Abrams was basically handed a clean slate to take the franchise in whatever direction he wanted, and all he did was circle back and double-down on TFA. It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing. It's just disappointing the one good thing to come out of Disney SW has now been squandered and kicked to the curb. It's also patently obvious that everyone lied about anything being retconned. I could've overlooked most of happens in the film, but the one thing I didn't want changed Abrams just had to go and do. It completely undoes TLJ's central theme.

If I hadn't already purchased my ticket I'd probably wait to see it until it came to Redbox. Maybe the execution will make story palatable, but right now any enthusiasm I have for Star Wars' future has evaporated.

 

[Frodo]

I'm amazed but not surprised by how completely he missed the point of TLJ and what Johnson was trying to do for the franchise. Abrams was basically handed a clean slate to take the franchise in whatever direction he wanted, and all he did was circle back and double-down on TFA. It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing. It's just disappointing the one good thing to come out of Disney SW has now been squandered and kicked to the curb. It's also patently obvious that everyone lied about anything being retconned. I could've overlooked most of happens in the film, but the one thing I didn't want changed Abrams just had to go and do. It completely undoes TLJ's central theme.

.

Well i'm not surprised JJ doubled down on TFA since it was basically his story and the arcs he set up for the trilogy.

I predicted that's what he was going to do because he did want to validate the anger of fans who didn't like TLJ yet at the same time he wanted to complete the aspects of the story that Johnson didn't touch. With Abrams back, there was no way he wasn't gonna touch on The Knights of Ren, who Snoke was, Rey's full back story, Kylo's Vader obsession etc.

While I would have preferred a Palpatine- less third film, I suspect this is what Abrams probably wanted to do all along anyway.

Its clear to me Abrams and Johnson have very different visions for what these saga films should be and what they should accomplish.

I don't think that they hate each other as fandom would have you believe, but they're different artists with different perspectives and approaches to the saga films. It doesn't mean one is good and one is bad, they just see things differently.

That's why I never bought the claim by some fans that the two of them agreed on everything having to do with TLJ and TFA.

 

[Elayis]

Well i'm not surprised JJ doubled down on TFA since it was basically his story and the arcs he set up for the trilogy.

I predicted that's what he was going to do because he did want to validate the anger of fans who didn't like TLJ yet at the same time he wanted to complete the aspects of the story that Johnson didn't touch. With Abrams back, there was no way he wasn't gonna touch on The Knights of Ren, who Snoke was, Rey's full back story, Kylo's Vader obsession etc.

While I would have preferred a Palpatine- less third film, I suspect this is what Abrams probably wanted to do all along anyway.

Its clear to me Abrams and Johnson have very different visions for what these saga films should be and what they should accomplish.

I don't think that they hate each other as fandom would have you believe, but they're different artists with different perspectives and approaches to the saga films. It doesn't mean one is good and one is bad, they just see things differently.

That's why I never bought the claim by some fans that the two of them agreed on everything having to do with TLJ and TFA.

That's way I said Abrams was the wrong guy for Star Wars, because he can't see beyond his fanboy worship of the original trilogy. Say what you will about Lucas' work on the prequels, but he at least tried new things and didn't care if his approach angered fans. But Abrams' myopic approach only shrinks the universe. He's not adding anything new, he's just blending together a pastiche of established SW tropes with a new coat of paint.

There's a limit to how much you can draw from the same well before it comes up dry. Eventually the audience will get bored with getting eating the same meal time after time. It already happened once with Solo. Without innovation Star Wars will grow stagnant, and talented filmmakers will not want to work with a company that stifles their artistic vision and micro-manages every aspect of the production.

 

[BatLobster]

I honestly do NOT think "a Jedi can come from anywhere and bloodlines don't matter" was the central theme of TLJ and think some put too much weight on that because they happen to really like that message and latched onto it. And it's a nice message to get back into Star Wars, especially post midichlorians. But even the broom boy epilogue to me is more about how Luke has inspired the galaxy. The fact that there are Force sensitives everywhere is nothing new. The real theme of TLJ is failure, moving forward from it, which is encompassed in a larger discussion about transitioning from the failures of the past towards a better future.

I think this interview with Chris Terrio lays it out perfectly.

It’s no secret that this movie will tell us more about Rey’s past. One of the most interesting things that Rian Johnson did in The Last Jedi was make it clear that the Force belongs to everyone, even in the movie’s final scene with the kid using it to pick up his broom. So how do you add to her background without taking away from a message that was core to the previous film?

I agree, that’s a really interesting thing that Rian did. It’s a democratization of Star Wars, saying that your lineage and your blood doesn’t necessarily determine who you are, and your past doesn’t determine your future. But we took those provocations as ideas that we could grapple with and hopefully expand upon in this film, because I don’t think it’s a dialectic of one or the other, where either you come from nothing or you are born royalty. There’s a lot of ground in between. Even [Kylo] Ren’s terminology isn’t… When he says “You’re no one” — well, what does that mean? Is that how Rey would think about herself? Does Rey even think of these questions? I’m trying not to reveal any story points here! There’s a Gordian knot in my tongue. I think those are really valid ideas that Rian put forth, but any series of films, especially if you have three, is a conversation — which is, as I said early on when I was talking to J.J., thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. If Force Awakens asks the question of who is Rey and where did she come from, and then The Last Jedi answered it with a negative in a certain way, hopefully The Rise of Skywalker will take those two ideas and create a third thing.

It's another fantastic interview with Terrio. Inside the Writing of 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker'

Say what you will about J.J. and his affinity for nostalgia, but there is no doubt at this point that Terrio is a hardcore fan, beyond just loving the films. He really knows his stuff. I think J.J. made a really smart move by bringing him on board.

It's really assuring to me to see Terrio keep referencing the thesis-antithesis-synthesis aspect of trilogies. It's what I've been saying since literally the day I saw TLJ. And because of that I fully expected there to be more to the story of Rey. I honestly do not think Rian Johnson wrote it as a "lol nope, nothing to see here, her lineage will never come up again". Rian also knew he was writing the middle chapter, the antithesis. He knew he didn't have final say on who she was. He's repeatedly said he doesn't mind if they change that. And a lot of people picked up on the fact that the focus on her parents was just a way of backdoor setting up

Spoiler

a later grandparent reveal

After seeing Knives Out and how adept Rian is at cinematic slight of hand, it's even more abundantly clear that Rian is obviously clever enough to know the possibilities he was leaving on the table, despite the non-reveal. He just chose the answer that as he said, would be the most challenging for Rey to hear, because of her need for belonging-- in that particular moment.

Terrio is also right to point out that there is a whole lot of ground to explore between "you come from nothing" and "you're born royalty". The fact that this has been split up into a binary one or the other is another false dichotomy. Again, another area where Terrio hits the nail on the head.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Daisy Ridley: “There were lots of changes [from Colin Trevorrow's to J. J. Abram’s version of Episode IX], but the main story stayed the same. As J.J. said, ‘Sometimes things can get a bit overly complicated.’ So I think they stripped it back to make it clearer. Someone was talking about how Empire Strikes Back is a clear story. They have to do this one thing, then another thing and another thing and that’s sort of it. So I think this was mainly getting it back to that idea of, what do we need to achieve and what do we need to go through.” (December 14, 2019)

 

[Elayis]

You're right that I misspoke about it being the central theme. It was just an element that I particularly liked, not only for what it says politically/socially, but also what it does for the franchise, which is to have a main character that is not part of an established bloodline. Without that it limits and diminishes the overall story and its possibilities. And as has been said before, the idea that all three main characters of the franchise come from special bloodlines is kind of a gross message to put out there. I realize this can be rectified in future films, but why do this in the first place? We already had Luke come to grips with an evil relative, did we need yet another remix from Abrams?

But like I said, maybe seeing everything in context will make it palatable. Or hell, the spoilers could end up being wrong. It just irks me that the one plot point I didn't want changed has been retconned.

 

[BatLobster]

I totally respect that opinion, but I just think family is too deeply embedded into the saga's DNA to just pivot entirely away from at this point, especially in terms of who will ultimately be the final hero of this whole 9 part epic.

I think the family aspect of it all is a huge part of what makes Star Wars so relatable. I don't think the point is "you have to be royal blood to be a hero", I think it's more about tapping into some of the deep psychological issues that are relatable to a lot of people in some way...IE Vader being an oppressive father figure, reconciling with the father, etc. That's Joseph Campbell stuff. I want to see Rey have to wrestle with something absolutely devastating, so I personally absolutely love what the leaks suggest. I also don't think it's entirely fair to chalk this up as J.J. just being repetitive for the sake of it, when Lucas was always the one saying the movies are meant to rhyme and have these types of echoes.

You are right of course that it will all depend on the execution, but on paper it's not something I'm opposed to.

 

[Frodo]

That's way I said Abrams was the wrong guy for Star Wars, because he can't see beyond his fanboy worship of the original trilogy. Say what you will about Lucas' work on the prequels, but he at least tried new things and didn't care if his approach angered fans. But Abrams' myopic approach only shrinks the universe. He's not adding anything new, he's just blending together a pastiche of established SW tropes with a new coat of paint.

There's a limit to how much you can draw from the same well before it comes up dry. Eventually the audience will get bored with getting eating the same meal time after time. It already happened once with Solo. Without innovation Star Wars will grow stagnant, and talented filmmakers will not want to work with a company that stifles their artistic vision and micro-manages every aspect of the production.

I agree with alot of your statement though I would go a bit further. I put alot of the blame on Lucasfilm by reviving the Skywalker saga to begin with when that story was basically over with ROTJ. Yes, I know there was extended universe stuff and Lucas had ideas for Episodes 7-9 . I get that , and to be fair, alot of those ideas were off the table as far as Disney was concerned.

That said, I think it was inevitable they,Lucasfilm, were gonna repeat the same beats and pay homage or reverse what was done once they decided to return to Luke, Leia, Han etc and their kids well. That story was basically done, and it this point it basically becomes Terminator 3, 4, 5 , etc. Not saying the ST has been bad like those films, but that you're basically running on empty trying to tell the same old story in a new way even though it was basically already resolved. I get they wanted to pass the torch to the new generation but , even then , you're still basically having to deal with alot of the old baggage when the focus should really be on the new characters.

I agree that SW will grow stagnant if they keep going back to the same well with the saga films time and time again. At the same time, you really can't expect innovation if you keep looking backwards and saying "Let the past die" on the one hand ,then turning around and saying" Here's Solo!".

That's why I think Mandalorin succeeds.They're new stories in a familiar world without having to have to subvert expectations and paying homage to the past. They can tell their story with a clean slate without having to serve the masters of past continuity or of surprises. They can just tell their story . If the SW films going forward keep the new stories and characters in a familiar world model, then they'll be able to expand.

At the same time , I really don't think there should be an episode 10-12 of the saga films .Going forward, the films with Rey, Finn, and Poe need to truly be their own thing. Call it the Rey Chronicles episode 1, or something like that ,and truly tell a new story with a new threat that isn't reliant on the Empire, Luke, and the Skywalker family and associates.

 

[TheVileOne]

Terrio's statements sound really wishy washy.

 

[BatLobster]

@Frodo

Well, the sequel trilogy was a big driving force behind the whole Disney sale to begin with. Iger was interested, but became more interested when more films were put on the table. Which became a motivation for Lucas to start actively developing 7-9, as a means of increasing the value of the company for the sale. They were essentially an inevitability from a business standpoint. Even without the Disney sale, Lucasfilm may have had to do them to keep the company afloat.

Idk, whether or not it was "necessary" can be debated till we're blue in the face but for me, getting to see the classic characters one last time, getting 3 more John Williams scores, getting new wrinkles and layers in the mythology, it's all been very cool and fun. The conversation around these films has been unbearable, but whenever I actually sit down and watch them, as I did this weekend, I get quite a lot of value out of them. I think having that itch scratched one more time helps ease the transition into something new and increases the appetite for that.

I guarantee, if the Disney Sale happened and they only announced spinoffs, TV shows and theme parks, everyone would be complaining-- "They should be doing Episodes 7-9 while Mark, Harrison and Carrie are still around!" So there's really no winning.

 

[TheVileOne]

3 prequel movies arguably weren't necessary either.

I still find it weird how people are treating the prequels like sacred cows now and how Lucas did something great when the reaction to those films is the reason Lucas sold the company and retired in the first place.

 

[Brother Jack]

The fandom is extraordinarily myopic and there's a lot of revisionist history around now about the prequels and Lucas.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

 

[TheVileOne]

By far, The Rise of Skywalker has the worst editing of the sequel trilogy.

I'd say at least in The Force Awakens they did a great job of cutting the cfat and trimming out useless superfluous material.

Last Jedi? They narratively introduce THREE LESSONS for Rey. We never see or hear the third lesson. Setup with no actual payoff. Bad editing and bad narrative storytelling.

 

[Sithborg]

The fandom is extraordinarily myopic and there's a lot of revisionist history around now about the prequels and Lucas.

I mean, I would by lying if I said nostalgia isn't playing a factor in how I rate The Phantom Menace.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The prequels aren't suddenly magically good because of this movie. But that doesn't prevent the fact I've seen them more than The Godfather.

 

[MadVillainy]

The prequels aren't suddenly magically good because of this movie. But that doesn't prevent the fact I've seen them more than The Godfather.

I wouldn't say the prequels aren't magically good to a lot of people, but for example peep the thread about "Should Disney Have Followed Lucas'" ideas or whatever. I feel that before TFA maybe even a year after very few people who visted that thread would say "Yes" to that question

 

[KaijuDude1992]

Yeah this is definitely his worst directed and edited film. The Force Awakens was at least a more coherently made movie, but this really was all over place, especially the first half.

 

[Iceman]

The fandom is extraordinarily myopic and there's a lot of revisionist history around now about the prequels and Lucas.

Yeah, I do find this really confusing. The problem with revisionist history is that many of us lived through that history. Someone could have a go at trying to convince me that World War I or II didn’t happen or Elvis never existed, but you’re not going to have a chance with someone who lived through the wars or saw Elvis live.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I wouldn't say the prequels aren't magically good to a lot of people, but for example peep the thread about "Should Disney Have Followed Lucas'" ideas or whatever. I feel that before TFA maybe even a year after very few people who visted that thread would say "Yes" to that question

True. Honestly, if I had the choice between Disney and Lucas I'd pick Lucas. Ideally it would be in better hands but I'll pick weird, esoteric and interesting in a how did this mad man make these decisions kind of way over these corporate, committee, safe, conservative, rehashed packages.

For better or for worse, there's a reason why people are still talking about the prequels. They're interesting to dissect in the very least. These? There's not much there.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

J. J. Abrams: "[My approach to storytelling and the way to create additions to the Star Wars franchise is to] do the best you can with everything you have." “The truth is that these are things that are meant to entertain people, to make them feel something and hopefully make them feel good.” [My involvement with the new Star Wars trilogy has been a] blessing.” “Obviously, it doesn’t always work. It’s hard when it doesn’t, and when it doesn’t, you have to understand it, you have to acknowledge it, you have to examine it.” (January 30, 2020) (archive)

 

[TheVileOne]

*Sigh* JJ Abrams.