Man of Steel Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 8

[Princess Denise]

I really want to see WHD, but I 'll hold off until next week. I would rather support MOS this weekend with my $$$.

 

[metaphysician]

You do realize Superman is held to a different standard right? That's part of what makes him Superman. And in my post I stated that the issue was how Superman killed him, the brutal manner. Had he punched him into the sun no one would blink an eye.

The poster who brought up Agent Coulson being killed, the villain did that, not a hero. Spider-Man didn't kill Goblin with his own hands. And the terrorists being killed by Iron Man, you don't actually see them being killed on camera, and Iron Man didn't kill them with his bare hands. That's the difference, not that people were killed but doing it directly with one's hands is viewed much more brutal. And to have Superman do that of all people is very shocking.

More importantly, Iron Man isn't, and was never in the movies, about moral purity. It was specifically about an imperfect man making up for his mistakes. Having a character with at least some anti-heroic aspects do actions that are slightly less than morally perfect isn't necessarily problematic, anymore than having a clear villain do clear evil would be. Its when you have a story portray someone as a moral paragon, and then don't have them act like it that you have trouble, because the implications becomes that a moral paragon can totally ignore collateral damage.

 

[Tobias]

With all due respect, I believe that's actually the primary complaint. That it was not a competently made film. Tobias is right. Something went wrong. This was the most talked about movie all year. The marketing was there, the interest was there. The hype was unreal. People showed up and bought tickets. Everything was great.

Until the opening credits.

And I gotta be honest, I'm just not sure where they go from here. I'm not even sure if I want WB to shove a sequel down our throats. I'm not sure if this movie even deserves a sequel at all. And like Tobias pointed out, my biggest fear is that they'll hold this against the Superman brand itself and not the filmmakers responsible. And if they do scrap plans for a Superman sequel, or a Justice League, or a DC universe... you gotta think it's gonna be a LONG time before we see Superman again on the silver screen. And that really saddens me.

I suggested that maybe DC just has to accept the fact they dropped the ball and give up on the idea of having "franchises". Maybe that's just not their game. Instead of trying to establish franchises, just go full blown and jump right into major epic one offs... like The Death Of Superman or Kingdom Come or something. It's too late now to try and create a universe, just dive right in. People don't need to be told who Superman and Batman are, or Wonder Woman, or Flash. Just go into the movie expecting the audience to know who they are in advance. It's not much of a leap if you ask me.

It's not the route I would have originally suggested, but DC is just too far behind in this race and with MOS not performing as expected... this feels like a good backup plan.

Good points. I hope too they don't blame this on Superman.

People turned out that first weekend in droves so the interest in Superman is there.

It's hard to pin down what went wrong. I watched STM the other night and the thing that hit me was MOS had no charm. No funny moments. No fun moments. Henry was forced to play the role too one-dimensionally. None of that twinkle in the eye Reeve had.

Maybe a Superman franchis is not doable and one-offs are the way to go. I dunno. Hope not.

But the definition of inanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result and that is my fear for MOS2.

Marvel can do these kinds of films while WB generally can't. Maybe it's in the water.

My path forward rather than dropping the franchises, except for Batman, would be try licensing one or two of the characters to another studio. Let them have a shot. WB won't make a lot that way but having the characters sit on the shelves is making them nothing.

WB is going to have a lot of decisions to make on where they go from here. There are answers - will they choose the right ones.

 

[ironman_rick]

This movie will hit $300M Domestic (or come very close to it) and get a sequel. There is no 2 ways about it. With an opening of > $100M, there is no way WB will not get the sequel out and rolling. MOS has outgrossed thor and cap in about 1.5 weeks.


I just hope they don't get goyer involved for the sequel. That moron screwed Blade 3.

 

[Skrilla31]

It's hard to pin down what went wrong.

Zach Snyder

 

[kalhawj]

Good points. I hope too they don't blame this on Superman.

People turned out that first weekend in droves so the interest in Superman is there.

It's hard to pin down what went wrong. I watched STM the other night and the thing that hit me was MOS had no charm. No funny moments. No fun moments. Henry was forced to play the role too one-dimensionally. None of that twinkle in the eye Reeve had.

Maybe a Superman franchis is not doable and one-offs are the way to go. I dunno. Hope not.

But the definition of inanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result and that is my fear for MOS2.

Marvel can do these kinds of films while WB generally can't. Maybe it's in the water.

My path forward rather than dropping the franchises, except for Batman, would be try licensing one or two of the characters to another studio. Let them have a shot. WB won't make a lot that way but having the characters sit on the shelves is making them nothing.

WB is going to have a lot of decisions to make on where they go from here. There are answers - will they choose the right ones.

See this is where some audience don't pay attention to the story and what's it's trying to show you... MOS I truly believe that WB plan this as a trilogy to explore Superman. MOS was the first movie to show us when he finally decides to he the hope and hero this world will need. That's what you don't see the Clark/Superman until the very end of the movie. MOS 2 is the movie that everyone that complain about the charm will like. IT will be the movie close to the magic of STM. MOS main focus was to show us his struggles and loneliness keeping his secret from the world and his strength/power as Superman.

 

[Tobias]

Zach Snyder

Goyer too.

The film was jumbled in feel. Like I said I watched STM again and it was technically well put together.

WB better not blame this on Supes. A record crowd turned out that first week (116 million) to see Superman. If he wasn't viable that would not happen.

I believe a great Superman film can be made that makes it to the top tier - I, Batman and Spidey.

I read one article saying a reboot was needed but not practical.

How about license Superman to marvel for a decade. WB wouldn't dare but I bet you'd get that great Superman film.

 

[dante2012]

Look guys everyone has different opinions. So skrilla and tobias stop acting like your opinion is fact. i enjoyed mos but i know its not perfect and mostly everyone i know enjoyed it. its doing great for an origin movie its gonna hit 290 or 300 mill dom and 650 or 700 mil WW so that tells me people do like it and has good legs and the user review are in the 8's in imdb and other sites aswell.

 

[Visualiza]

Zach Snyder

Let's not forget his partner(s) in crime.

 

[Marvin]

With all due respect, I believe that's actually the primary complaint. That it was not a competently made film. Tobias is right. Something went wrong. This was the most talked about movie all year. The marketing was there, the interest was there. The hype was unreal. People showed up and bought tickets. Everything was great.

Until the opening credits.

And I gotta be honest, I'm just not sure where they go from here. I'm not even sure if I want WB to shove a sequel down our throats. I'm not sure if this movie even deserves a sequel at all. And like Tobias pointed out, my biggest fear is that they'll hold this against the Superman brand itself and not the filmmakers responsible. And if they do scrap plans for a Superman sequel, or a Justice League, or a DC universe... you gotta think it's gonna be a LONG time before we see Superman again on the silver screen. And that really saddens me.

I suggested that maybe DC just has to accept the fact they dropped the ball and give up on the idea of having "franchises". Maybe that's just not their game. Instead of trying to establish franchises, just go full blown and jump right into major epic one offs... like The Death Of Superman or Kingdom Come or something. It's too late now to try and create a universe, just dive right in. People don't need to be told who Superman and Batman are, or Wonder Woman, or Flash. Just go into the movie expecting the audience to know who they are in advance. It's not much of a leap if you ask me.

It's not the route I would have originally suggested, but DC is just too far behind in this race and with MOS not performing as expected... this feels like a good backup plan.

So how much money or rather success would be needed for WB to accept the fact that they have a hit film on their hands, exactly?

The most talked about film all year has already made the most money. It's been a well talked about fact that as well known as superman's brand is, it's not as accessible as it once was do to a string of films that have turned off the GA. This very same thing happens with the characters comic books.
I know this is at least partially true cause I debated the idea with many of the detractors to high BO numbers, in the many months leading up to this films release. Only to now have them say things like this was the most antip movie....and so on.

What you are infact talking about precisely describes Superman Returns situation. To a fault.
MOS is going another way. For years we've all seen films like IM and Xmen handle more human and relatable stories and resonate with the audience in the face of the most classical Superman films of lore(and the Returns reboot). A new approach is now presented, and as predicted it's a hit with the GA but low and behold, there are some people that preferred the status quo. The only thing I can really say to that crowd is you had your turn. If only your numbers were stronger.

I also ask again, what level of success would classify this as a hit?

 

[Tobias]

See this is where some audience don't pay attention to the story and what's it's trying to show you... MOS I truly believe that WB plan this as a trilogy to explore Superman. MOS was the first movie to show us when he finally decides to he the hope and hero this world will need. That's what you don't see the Clark/Superman until the very end of the movie. MOS 2 is the movie that everyone that complain about the charm will like. IT will be the movie close to the magic of STM. MOS main focus was to show us his struggles and loneliness keeping his secret from the world and his strength/power as Superman.

That is like Singer saying yeah we didn't do much action in SR but it will be in SR2. Problem is the lack of action turned folks off to SR and a sequel would likely have suffered the Tomb Raiders effect. This film needed to give some of that charm now, some of that fun now. Moviegoers will be skeptical if MOS2 promises it cause MOS couldn't do it.

MOS IMO is going to be a drag on MOS2's opening and box.

Just as SR would have been on an SR2.

 

[spider-neil]

Goyer too.

The film was jumbled in feel. Like I said I watched STM again and it was technically well put together.

WB better not blame this on Supes. A record crowd turned out that first week (116 million) to see Superman. If he wasn't viable that would not happen.

I believe a great Superman film can be made that makes it to the top tier - I, Batman and Spidey.

Superman is already is top tier and is on course to make more than any hero that doesn't have Spider, Bat, Iron or Avenger in their name.

 

[Tobias]

So how much money or rather success would be needed for WB to accept the fact that they have a hit film on their hands, exactly?

The most talked about film all year has already made the most money. It's been a well talked about fact that as well known as superman's brand is, it's not as accessible as it once was do to a string of films that have turned off the GA. This very same thing happens with the characters comic books.
I know this is at least partially true cause I debated the idea with many of the detractors to high BO numbers, in the many months leading up to this films release. Only to now have them say things like this was the most antip movie....and so on.

What you are infact talking about precisely describes Superman Returns situation. To a fault.
MOS is going another way. For years we've all seen films like IM and Xmen handle more human and relatable stories and resonate with the audience in the face of the most classical Superman films of lore(and the Returns reboot). A new approach is now presented, and as predicted it's a hit with the GA but low and behold, there are some people that preferred the status quo. The only thing I can really say to that crowd is you had your turn. If only your numbers were stronger.

I also ask again, what level of success would classify this as a hit?

My answer - it needed to have been cooking with gas. Simple as that.

 

[kalhawj]

You guys are too funny... Zach and and Goyer aren't going anywhere... The were the two that brought us a modern Superman that GA love... only a small percent and fanboy do not like it... Superman had a huge monkey on it's back of Return and having to live up to the legacy of STM. It did it's job... it made Superman cool and relatable to the GA. You guys that had issue with MOS are just a small percent... WB is rolling with the 80+% that love this more while 5% hate it & 10% mix.

 

[Marvin]

WB better not blame this on Supes. A record crowd turned out that first week (116 million) to see Superman. If he wasn't viable that would not happen.

Yea and guess who's visuals they were seeing all year that brought them in, certainly not Singers or the other guy.

If it was superman's name alone that brought them, you would have seen similar numbers last time. Sadly no.

 

[Marvin]

My answer - it needed to have been cooking with gas. Simple as that.

plz explain the analogy.

 

[Skrilla31]

Goyer too.

The film was jumbled in feel. Like I said I watched STM again and it was technically well put together.

If I had to portion out the blame pie, I'd say it's about 75% Snyder and 25% Goyer. Don't get me wrong I'm not insinuating that Goyer's screenplay was some genius masterwork before Snyder got his hands on it, but there was a good story somewhere in there waiting to be told. It's up to Snyder to tell that story and to bring it to life. He failed.

Like you said it felt jumbled. The characters were thin, the drama was thin, and it just lacked all of the emotional beats in the trailers. The trailers were about a man on a spiritual journey coming to terms with his existence and his place in the world. Instead we got a dumb summer action movie. A bad dumb action movie.

 

[dante2012]

I enjoyed MOS cause it reminds me of the modern superman comics like Secret origin and birthright. I really don't understand the fascination with the old movies it bores me so such. Christopher reeves was the best thing about the original movies. MOS felt real to me and i just connected with the character more and the action was miles better then most cmb movies. Plus i love all the sci fi and comic elements in mos aswell!

I agree pacing and script can be improved in the sequel and i think Jonah Nolan would be awesome as a co writer with Goyer. Nolan bros script was great in TDK.

 

[kalhawj]

That is like Singer saying yeah we didn't do much action in SR but it will be in SR2. Problem is the lack of action turned folks off to SR and a sequel would likely have suffered the Tomb Raiders effect. This film needed to give some of that charm now, some of that fun now. Moviegoers will be skeptical if MOS2 promises it cause MOS couldn't do it.

MOS IMO is going to be a drag on MOS2's opening and box.

Just as SR would have been on an SR2.

Dude... MOS has 80% of the GA loving it with 10% mix and 5% hating it... so I don't know what you are trying to get at... MOS isn't SR... and it will not drag MOS2 down... If anything MOS2 will surprise everyone even you who seem to already dam/doom it before it even began... What you want isn't what the GA wants... get that right...

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Superman is already is top tier and is on course to make more than any hero that doesn't have Spider, Bat, Iron or Avenger in their name.

People who dislike this movie are hellbent on twisting things to make it look like MOS is not a hit. Is it a blockbuster? No. Has it been successfully relaunched? Yes. This movie will be making close to $700M WW and there are people claiming it is not a hit. It's mind boggling to me. Snyder and Goyer are not going anywhere, so for those wishing that, keep dreaming.

 

[Serpico Jones]

Goyer has written and directed some truly awful films. His filmography is extremely bipolar.

 

[roach]

this thread needs a reality check

 

[Tobias]

If I had to portion out the blame pie, I'd say it's about 75% Snyder and 25% Goyer. Don't get me wrong I'm not insinuating that Goyer's screenplay was some genius masterwork before Snyder got his hands on it, but there was a good story somewhere in there waiting to be told. It's up to Snyder to tell that story and to bring it to life. He failed.

Like you said it felt jumbled. The characters were thin, the drama was thin, and it just lacked all of the emotional beats in the trailers. The trailers were about a man on a spiritual journey coming to terms with his existence and his place in the world. Instead we got a dumb summer action movie. A bad dumb action movie.

Yea. The trailers were better than the movie in a weird way.

Characterization was bad, no "feel" to the interactions and poor Henry. He came across as flat and lacking charm in the role. Due to poor directing by Snyder. Henry has more charm than you can shake a stick at and I was so enthusiastic about him that that charm, wink of an eye would show up in the film. It didn't. Sadly. It's like let Henry be Henry. It's sort of what happened with Routh. He too is very charming and engaging but came of wooden in SR. Singer so constrained his natural acting talent.

We are "haters" to many but in truth we are lovers of Big Blue who are waiting that great movie. I want to have the same experience in a Superman movie my Dad did in 1978. The audience totally into - laughing, crying, standing up and shouting.

That can happen again. I have faith.

 

[kalhawj]

Tobias and the rest of those that come on MOS forum to doom it or complaint about it can just call or send your complaints to WB... We don't need your complaints in here... You aren't going to change anyone's view about MOS in here... GA love it and that's a fact...

 

[dante2012]

Agree FlawlessVictory people are acting like this is bombing like green lantern!

MOS is doing better then i thought and is gonna hit 700 mill worldwide!

I'm looking forward to the sequel!