The Dark Knight Rises Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate II

[Gianakin_]

True but I would think she would want this time to be with her newborn. Most actresses take an entire year off.

There are many things we don't know. Maybe her scenes demand her presence on set to be limited, so that she won't be away from her baby. The kid has a dad, too, you know.

 

[Infinity9999x]

This is the biggest smoking gun. Right here.

No way is she Talia if she has a "small role." No way. Her revealed to be Talia at some point probably near the climax of the movie would have no impact AT ALL if her role is small.

And yes, she said her role was secret I think BEFORE her roll was announced. Which amounts to diddley sqaut because EVERYBODY'S role is secret in this film. Doesn't mean they're going to be revealed as a villain at some point in the movie.

I don't really think Tate will be Talia, but I disagree with this sentiment. One could argue that Liam's role in BB was "small." He really didn't have all that much screen time, yet had a very big impact on the film.

Uncle Ben in Spider-man 1, he certainly had a very "small" role in the film, yet his presence was felt for the entire film. It had a huge impact on the film. Hannibal Lector in Silence of the Lambs, yet another small role that greatly impacted his respective film. Kevin Spacey in Se7en is another great example.

Her role being small does not discount her being Talia at all. It's still just as likely. I still don't think she'll be Talia, but I don't think your above reasoning is sound.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

There are many things we don't know. Maybe her scenes demand her presence on set to be limited, so that she won't be away from her baby. The kid has a dad, too, you know.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Marion longs to be with her child. Most women can't stand being away from their newborns for more than an hour... when they're not crying, of course

 

[Majik1387]

Well, Caine did state in an interview that he wasn't going to be an important part of the film (Inception).

And we certainly knew what to expect when Nolan casted Caine as Alfred and Freeman as Fox. Although to be fair, both Caine and Freeman had bigger roles in BB than in TDK.

So you can believe Caine when he said his role wasn't important, but not that Marion's role is small? Jesus christ.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yes, but that doesn't mean Marion longs to be with her child. Most women can't stand being away from their newborns for more than an hour... when they're not crying, of course

You mean "doesn't long to be", right?

In any case, only she knows how to be a mother to her child, so we're just speculating here.t:

 

[Infinity9999x]

So you can believe Caine when he said his role wasn't important, but not that Marion's role is small? Jesus christ.

As I said on the previous page, a small role does not mean an unimportant one.

Plenty of movies have characters with HUGE impacts on the film, yet only have a handful of actual screen time.

Like I said, I don't really think Tate will be Talia, but I don't think the "small part" confirmation gives any headway against the possibility.

 

[The_Raganork]

I think the revelation of Talia, her relation to Ra's and what that means would necessitate a large role.

Not necessarily but, it's a lot to go through for a small role. I'm going to take it as face value until I have a good reason not to. she hasn't even filmed yet, there's no inclination at all to suspect Talia Al Ghul

In fact it'd be such a corny move I don't think Chris Nolan would pull it again. BB already had one mysterious Al Ghul reveal, why do it again?

 

[flickchick85]

This whole debate is so tedious. Tate may be Talia, and she may not. Nobody here knows definitively which it is yet, so it's silly for anyone to act as if they do.

 

[The_Raganork]

This whole debate is so tedious. Tate may be Talia, and she may not. Nobody here knows definitively which it is yet, so it's silly for anyone to act as if they do.

Except that wasn't what we were arguing.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think the revelation of Talia, her relation to Ra's and what that means would necessitate a large role.

Not necessarily but, it's a lot to go through for a small role. I'm going to take it as face value until I have a good reason not to. she hasn't even filmed yet, there's no inclination at all to suspect Talia Al Ghul

In fact it'd be such a corny move I don't think Chris Nolan would pull it again. BB already had one mysterious Al Ghul reveal, why do it again?

Not necessarily. If she's a small supporting character, someone who's in the film about as much as Lucius was in BB, it would be more then enough to establish her. Have her as someone who seems to be a friend, helping Bruce, not a character we pay all that much attention to.

Then throughout the film we have things happening to Batman and Bruce that keeps him wondering how his enemies are getting so close to him, like there's someone on the inside helping him. Get to the climax, and BANG! It's the nice board member that everyone thought was helping Bruce! WHAT A TWIST!!!!

In all seriousness, I think it could be handled in a way that would be done well. I don't really think it's going to happen. Mostly because I'd rather not see a "you killed my father so now I'm going to kill you" plot. I think it'd be more interesting if Ra's actually was back from the dead and Talia was working under her father's orders.

But in that scenario I'd want enough screen time to add a dilemma in the climax for Talia. Show that she's actually grown to like Bruce so the betrayal is hard for her. You could still do that with a small character, but it would be hard.

So yeah, you could certainly have her still be Talia and be a small role. But that doesn't mean I think it's going to happen. I'm just pointing out it certainly COULD happen. Like I've said, there have been tons of small role characters that greatly effected the films they were in.

 

[The_Raganork]

Not necessarily. If she's a small supporting character, someone who's in the film about as much as Lucius was in BB, it would be more then enough to establish her. Have her as someone who seems to be a friend, helping Bruce, not a character we pay all that much attention to.

Then throughout the film we have things happening to Batman and Bruce that keeps him wondering how his enemies are getting so close to him, like there's someone on the inside helping him. Get to the climax, and BANG! It's the nice board member that everyone thought was helping Bruce! WHAT A TWIST!!!!

In all seriousness, I think it could be handled in a way that would be done well. I don't really think it's going to happen. Mostly because I'd rather not see a "you killed my father so now I'm going to kill you" plot. I think it'd be more interesting if Ra's actually was back from the dead and Talia was working under her father's orders.

But in that scenario I'd want enough screen time to add a dilemma in the climax for Talia. Show that she's actually grown to like Bruce so the betrayal is hard for her. You could still do that with a small character, but it would be hard.

So yeah, you could certainly have her still be Talia and be a small role. But that doesn't mean I think it's going to happen. I'm just pointing out it certainly COULD happen. Like I've said, there have been tons of small role characters that greatly effected the films they were in.

lol...even in my original post that you quoted I sad: "not necessarily"

 

[Infinity9999x]

lol...even in my original post that you quoted I sad: "not necessarily"

Yeah, I mean, I don't really expect it to happen either. If Nolan decided to do it, I'm sure he could execute it in an exciting way though.

Honestly, at this point I think all bets are off when it comes to Nolan though. He's done nothing I expected him to. Heck, he's done nothing that anybody expected.

Had you come on here a year ago and told everyone "Hey guys, the villains for TDKR are going to be Catwoman and Bane. Oh, and there are set pictures that makes it look an awfully lot like he might use a Lazarus Pit. Also, we're going to have a flashback sequence with a young Ra's and possibly Liam as well."

People would have called you crazy and promptly ignored everything you said. So honestly, I'm done trying to guess what Nolan will do.

 

[HelloImBen]

Because we don't agree with your baseless assumptions we're attacking you?

Just because I have a treasure trove of facts and further assumptions that invalidate your arguments you shouldn't feel attacked.

It's a shame that when someone is proven wrong by a good degree of fact they quickly jump on the defensive. Admit defeat or come at me with something more plausible.

Is it such a terrible notion that I insist you support your claim with worthy sources and reasons?

You've got to prove your way of thinking is valid man, don't expect people to just discuss any nonsense someone comes up with without some good reason to discuss it.

Mind telling us what facts you have that says Talia will not be in this film.

I don't think shes gonna be in it. Just a hunch. But I don't get why people who say shes obviously going to be in it are getting so much heat while people saying theres no way shes in it are getting a free pass.

Both cases are ridiculous. We know absolutely NOTHING about this movie, other than some info on a few cast members. Arguing that she isn't in the movie is just as stupid as arguing that she is in it.

 

[The_Raganork]

Yeah, I mean, I don't really expect it to happen either. If Nolan decided to do it, I'm sure he could execute it in an exciting way though.

Honestly, at this point I think all bets are off when it comes to Nolan though. He's done nothing I expected him to. Heck, he's done nothing that anybody expected.

Had you come on here a year ago and told everyone "Hey guys, the villains for TDKR are going to be Catwoman and Bane. Oh, and there are set pictures that makes it look an awfully lot like he might use a Lazarus Pit. Also, we're going to have a flashback sequence with a young Ra's and possibly Liam as well."

People would have called you crazy and promptly ignored everything you said. So honestly, I'm done trying to guess what Nolan will do.

Indeed that's why I hypothesize possible plot points based on the structures of the other films. I don't think I'm writing but, I'm feeling for patterns and likely places to go.

Whether or not people are or aren't who their cast as doesn't hold any merit to me, unless I'm given specific reasons to think so by, photos, plot information or wardrobe selections

 

[flickchick85]

Except that wasn't what we were arguing.

My mistake. There were several comments in previous pages that gave me that impression, including these:

I also think some people here act like dictators telling us how we should not speculate about the possibility of Tate being Talia.

No way is she Talia if she has a "small role." No way.

Because we don't agree with your baseless assumptions we're attacking you?

Just because I have a treasure trove of facts and further assumptions that invalidate your arguments you shouldn't feel attacked.

I think it should be pointed out that there are plenty of "bases" for people to suspect Talia, whether they ultimately pan out or not.

-Late August 2010 (before ANY female characters were confirmed for TDKR) - it was first reported that there were in fact two female characters in TDKR, that they were Catwoman and Talia, and that Chris Nolan had offered Marion Cotillard her pick of either, but that she had to turn them down for the time being due to "possible" scheduling conflicts. Variety also later stated that their sources suspected the two female leads and Talia as well, and Deadline later confirmed the two female leads, stating one was a love interest, and one was a villain.

October 2010 - the trades report that Nolan entered the screen testing phase for, you guessed it, TWO female leads.

-January 2011 - it's revealed that Marion Cotillard is several months pregnant, due in May. Suddenly the "possible scheduling conflicts" report in late August sounds plausible.

-January 2011 - It's announced that Catwoman is a character in TDKR, but that there's still another female lead to be cast. And that's the last we hear of the "two female leads."

-February 2011 - Marion Cotillard joins the cast, claiming a secret "small role," later to be announced as Miranda Tate.

-April 2011 - The Hollywood Reporter claims that Josh Pence will be playing a young Ra's Al Ghul in scenes set 30 years in the past....right around the time Talia would be a little girl (assuming she's the same age as Bale/Cotillard)....

-May 2011 - 10-year-old Joey King is cast in TDKR, and she just happens to bear resemblance to Marion Cotillard.

-Nolan has a history of worldplay with his character a names. Cotillard is French. The French spelling of Tate would be "Téte," which = "Head" = "Ra's" = Talia's alias in the comics.

-When I did a Wiki search for "Miranda Tate" on the day she was announced, I didn't get any direct results, but one of the top results was a DC Comics directory featuring the name "Talia Tate," which I couldn't find any more info on.


Now sure, these could all be coincidences. But string a bunch of coincidences together, and they kinda start to look like evidence. In the eyes of the law, I believe they'd call it "circumstantial evidence," but evidence, nonetheless. I'm not saying Tate is Talia. In fact, I still think there's a VERY strong possibility that she isn't. But those suspicions that she could be are FAR from "baseless."

 

[The_Raganork]

I won't argue against those points again, just look back the last incarnation of the thread. They're all nice but, few of them lend to any direction to Tate begin Talia

HOWEVER this new Talia Tate info is interesting and I grant it to that cause.

But again I was never saying that Miranda CAN'T be Talia rather than any such assumption based on news we had were premature and reason would dictate that since they didn't lead to that conclusion people should find new arguments or accept their reasonings as flawed at the very least.

Tate could be Talia but if she is, the reasons given previously will not be validated be that.

 

[DaveMoral]

^The problem is you're arguing as if everyone that suggests Talia and Tate are one and the same are saying it's a fact. They aren't, they are speculating based on numerous points that they've found a pattern in. There's ample enough evidence of the al-Ghul's being involved in this film that it does not make such speculation unreasonable.

Your entire argument has essentially been, don't speculate on that unless it's spelled out for you. Which is facetious at best.

 

[kvz5]

I would prefer that Miranda Tate is just Miranda because her role actually sounds significant enough without her also being Talia. Yes, the role might be small but it also sounds significant to me. Also, I feel that if she's Talia then it's a "been there, done that" scenario and like what was discussed before, Bruce would look like an idiot if he is fooled with an almost exact same ploy with a father/daughter no less.

However, there's quite a lot of significant evidence/coincidence floating around that supports her character also being Talia. If that does end up being the case then I just hope that they do it with justice and they don't do it just because it's a "twist". I also hate the idea of her being this mastermind that has Bane as her muscleman and lover so i hope that's not the case. Maybe it'll be a Vesper Lynd type of character. Who knows...

 

[The_Raganork]

^The problem is you're arguing as if everyone that suggests Talia and Tate are one and the same are saying it's a fact. They aren't, they are speculating based on numerous points that they've found a pattern in. There's ample enough evidence of the al-Ghul's being involved in this film that it does not make such speculation unreasonable.

Your entire argument has essentially been, don't speculate on that unless it's spelled out for you. Which is facetious at best.

No.

My argument is speculating and laying your hand on a side that has no evidence is silly.

If you think Talia is Tate, that's fine. But don't make up excuses why; just say: "it would be cool and I can see it working in the film"

That's totally cool.

But when you start grasping at straws and using rumors as fact and telling me: "Ra's is in it!" it seems silly. That's not even a close reason to think Talia is Tate.

If you plotted out a storyline that is consistent with the films and then included Talia in it, you'd have some good reasons there.

But the reasons like: Joey King looks like Marion so she's possibly playing a younger marion...so a younger marion is Talia...come on.

she could be Tate's daughter...or unrelated.

Give me something with some meat; I can't be expected to understand or even entertain an idea based on such weak premises.

I could write an Essay on how this movie may go and how Talia would propel the current story forward based on accurate proof from the previous films.

And I could write one adversely. but either way I'd be using proof from the films and the news

Not rumors and assumptions from the casting and locations because honestly, those could be anything

 

[Infinity9999x]

I would prefer that Miranda Tate is just Miranda because her role actually sounds significant enough without her also being Talia. Yes, the role might be small but it also sounds significant to me. Also, I feel that if she's Talia then it's a "been there, done that" scenario and like what was discussed before, Bruce would look like an idiot if he is fooled with an almost exact same ploy with a father/daughter no less.

However, there's quite a lot of significant evidence/coincidence floating around that supports her character also being Talia. If that does end up being the case then I just hope that they do it with justice and they don't do it just because it's a "twist". I also hate the idea of her being this mastermind that has Bane as her muscleman and lover so i hope that's not the case. Maybe it'll be a Vesper Lynd type of character. Who knows...

I don't necessarily think it makes him an idiot. I mean, let's examine this here. If she is Talia, then that means she's likely been trained by a master in deception most of her life (Ra's). She has the full resources of the LOS behind her to get her perfect forged documents to secure her a position in Wayne Enterprises. And as far as Bruce knows, Ra's daughter is dead. Not to mention he thinks any connection to Ra's is finished, since Ra's is dead, and he'll probably be a little distracted what with the entire GCPD after him and Bane on his tail.

 

[Majik1387]

I would prefer that Miranda Tate is just Miranda because her role actually sounds significant enough without her also being Talia. Yes, the role might be small but it also sounds significant to me. Also, I feel that if she's Talia then it's a "been there, done that" scenario and like what was discussed before, Bruce would look like an idiot if he is fooled with an almost exact same ploy with a father/daughter no less.

Entirely agreed with this part.

I refuse to believe that Bruce, Alfred, Fox, and Gordon are the only Gothamites with a good heart that want a better Gotham.

 

[TheBatman072]

I would prefer that Miranda Tate is just Miranda because her role actually sounds significant enough without her also being Talia. Yes, the role might be small but it also sounds significant to me. Also, I feel that if she's Talia then it's a "been there, done that" scenario and like what was discussed before, Bruce would look like an idiot if he is fooled with an almost exact same ploy with a father/daughter no less.

Well said. I agree.

 

[flickchick85]

I would prefer that Miranda Tate is just Miranda because her role actually sounds significant enough without her also being Talia. Yes, the role might be small but it also sounds significant to me....

However, there's quite a lot of significant evidence/coincidence floating around that supports her character also being Talia. If that does end up being the case then I just hope that they do it with justice and they don't do it just because it's a "twist".

I refuse to believe that Bruce, Alfred, Fox, and Gordon are the only Gothamites with a good heart that want a better Gotham.

These are my feelings exactly. My dream scenario here is that Miranda Tate is her own character, and an awesome one at that. It would be refreshing if we got a Dr. Leslie Thompkins type, someone who's not playing any kind of political games or "scheming" (as the Joker put it) to take down the mob, just an altruist trying to look out for those in need.

 

[The_Raganork]

Mind telling us what facts you have that says Talia will not be in this film.

I don't think shes gonna be in it. Just a hunch. But I don't get why people who say shes obviously going to be in it are getting so much heat while people saying theres no way shes in it are getting a free pass.

Both cases are ridiculous. We know absolutely NOTHING about this movie, other than some info on a few cast members. Arguing that she isn't in the movie is just as stupid as arguing that she is in it.

Go read what I said again. I never said Talia is not in the film.

Stop trying to make points and pay attention the actual post in this thread

 

[TheBatman072]

You know what's interesting about the whole "we know NOTHING about this film" thing? It's absolutely true.

You know what's interesting about it being true? It means that all those trades back a few months ago? Reporting on the whole "one love interest/one villain" thing?

Probably total ********.

Just like JGL being Alberto Falcone was total ******** and THAT, from what I recall, was reported as fact. I remember it because it REALLY bummed me out. Turns out? John Blake. Semi-original character.