Mass Effect 3 - Part 9

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[X Knight]

I am not justifying anything here. Unless Bioware blatantly said something like "players will have complete control over what kind of ending they get, whether it is happy, sad or bittersweet based on the decisions they made", then I see players' complaints with that quote as unfair since they are only looking at their own say in the story and not Bioware's. What if Bioware had 16 vastly different endings, all with varying outcomes but all of which ultimately ended on a bittersweet note (or a tragic one if you rushed through the game and screwed up everything)? Would that have been wrong?

yes. that's providing players with the illusion of variety when it all basically leads to the same bittersweet ending. it's like pick your flavor of poison.......you're going to die in the end anyways.........

 

[X Knight]

and once again, I'm reposting these quotes from the devs.

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people"

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”


“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”


When you read these promises and claims from the devs, it's not hard to form the impression that there will be a wide variety of ending choices and outcomes that will satisfy a variety of players due to their choices throughout the games.

1 bittersweet ending with 3 color choices doesn't really live up to that..........

If I had to single out one quote from above, it would be:

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Everyone pretty much got the same bittersweet ending choices, the same bittersweet ending sequences, no matter what they did.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

At this point is there a need? I don't think anyone is saying that Bioware somehow delivered on different endings.

 

[Matt]

If he makes every right decision that would theoretically be reflected by the state of the galaxy and your squadmates at the end of the game.

The major decisions are in reference to that, not to Shepard's endgame state.

Do you want to help the Krogan, do you want a Geth/Quarian peace? Do you want a united front? Do you think victory must come at all costs? Do you want to save everyone from ME2? Do you want to help Tali out? etc.


As for why I am defending it, the same reason you're defending the notion of a super happy ending - we have differing opinions. I don't see why that has to be called into question.

Because your opinion is illogical. It is basically, "I don't want something so EVERYONE should be deprived of it."

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I will also say I find this thread extremely kind of reflective.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10427753/1

 

[zenith16]

Xedge get the link if you can find it as well. That really help's it out when you put the/any quote up.
Cause there's no denying it was said .

 

[Fenrir]

Umm, Hudson said something very much to that extent.

Where?

You know, the quote about how the Reapers can win, about how basically anything can happen in the ending. I must've missed where he said, "Any ending can happen....except a happy one! It has to be "bittersweet! :troll:"

As I mentioned again and again, you can have substantially different endings but still end on a similar note.

Seriously, I am so sick of the word "bittersweet." Seems to me that it is just being thrown around by apologists in the same way that every fanboy says how every movie has to be "dark," ever since Nolan did Batman.

Now you're just being childish.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Because your opinion is illogical. It is basically, "I don't want something so EVERYONE should be deprived of it."

I'm saying as creators, Bioware's team should be allowed to take their work down the roads that they desire without being beholden to delivering on some kind of a super happy end simply for giving the audience the proverbial pat on the head.

More ends, sure; reflect our choices, absolutely!

But that they should be FORCED to include said super happy ending is a direction that I don't want the industry and the medium to go down. They should be allowed to take risks and to experiment. Audiences can then vote with their wallets.

 

[Matt]

Where?



As I mentioned again and again, you can have substantially different endings but still end on a similar note.



Now you're just being childish.

Zenith, be so kind to dig up the quote that Fenrir has no doubt read twenty times and is just being difficult about not acknowledging?

And I'm not being childish, this whole bittersweet thing is becoming the new "dark." Yes, I want one of my play throughs to give Shepard a happy ending. There, I said it. I stand by it. I also want one where Shepard (and everyone else) gets their ass handed to them by the Reapers. I want what Bioware promised.

 

[Fenrir]

yes. that's providing players with the illusion of variety when it all basically leads to the same bittersweet ending. it's like pick your flavor of poison.......you're going to die in the end anyways.........

If you hadn't noticed, that is what Bioware has been selling you since the very first game. You never had absolute choice. Your choices were always limited to what choices were given to you by Bioware - and all of those choices always converged back to a single narrative.

 

[X Knight]

here's the link that lists the devs statements:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/10204263

 

[Soapy]

As for why I am defending it, the same reason you're defending the notion of a super happy ending - we have differing opinions. I don't see why that has to be called into question.

lol, dude. No one is saying it has to be super happy. You sound like all the game "journalists" misrepresenting everyone who finds fault with the ending as people who just wanted it to be all unicorns and rainbows. Everyone is just saying that a happy ending should have been an option, just like "bittersweet" should be an option, and super grimdark "Oh my god everyone is dead! This has gone ALL THE WAY BAD!!" should be an option.

 

[zenith16]

ok on it. man this gonna be a pain to sort through.

 

[Matt]

I'm saying as creators, Bioware's team should be allowed to take their work down the roads that they desire without being beholden to delivering on some kind of a super happy end simply for giving the audience the proverbial pat on the head.

More ends, sure; reflect our choices, absolutely!

But that they should be FORCED to include said super happy ending is a direction that I don't want the industry and the medium to go down. They should be allowed to take risks and to experiment.

When they promised us that it was our choice to make, they gave up a certain amount of artistic integrity. We as the player should have the choice of how our Shepard ends. Not Bioware. If they wanted it to be THEIR story, they could've easily done that. I found Uncharted 3's ending to be a bit corny and a rehash of 1 and 2. Do you know why I don't complain that I would've preferred to have the option for Elena to die? Because Naughty Dog never told me that I am part of that process. They never promised me the tools to build my ending. Bioware did.

 

[Reek]

isnt that the point of mass effect...to have different reactions to your actions...therefore, a good, bad, middle of the line, somewhat good, somewhat bad, perfect and down right worst ending should all be possibilities

 

[Matt]

isnt that the point of mass effect...to have different reactions to your actions...therefore, a good, bad, middle of the line, somewhat good, somewhat bad, perfect and down right worst ending should all be possibilities

That's certainly what we were promised and given up until this point. Now certain people *cough cough Fenrir* seem to deny that it was ever the case.

 

[Reek]

"many decisions lie ahead, none of them easy" ...tagline from DAY 1 of mass effect.

 

[X Knight]

ok, I'll make it super simple.

There should be an option to get a really bad ending where the Reapers win and destroy everything.

There should be an option to get a bittersweet ending where you achieve victory but at great costs.

There should be an option to get a happy ending where you can get a happy "Disney" ending where your hero can ride off into the sunset with your LI.

All with several different variations and permutations of each, all based on your choices, decisions, and actions throughout the games.

so.......3 "core" endings. each with 2-3 possible variations. so that would be like 6-9 possible different endings.

IOW..........OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE.

Not just one bittersweet ending with 3 color choices.

 

[Reek]

why even give any options to the player for all 3 games if the choices they make ultimately do the same thing. this isnt a zelda game. its not modern warfare.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

lol, dude. No one is saying it has to be super happy .

And I'm not saying that, Soapy. I'm saying that it is BW's decision as creator to have a super happy ending or not at all and the decision to do so is a valid one.

It is their duty however to deliver that in a manner that is satisfying and includes player choice. They didn't do that.

So no I'm not just saying BIOWARE'S ENDING IS SO ARTISTIC, because its not. It forces the situation clumsily.

I don't like the endings, no need to lump me in with a crowd just because I haven't veered to the other extreme.

 

[Matt]

And I'm not saying that, Soapy. I'm saying that it is BW's decision as creator to have a super happy ending or not at all and the decision to do so is a valid one.

It is their duty however to deliver that in a manner that is satisfying and includes player choice. They didn't do that.

So no I'm not just saying BIOWARE'S ENDING IS SO ARTISTIC, because its not. It forces the situation clumsily.

No need to lump me in with a group of people without asking me to clarify man.

And what of all those quotes about the fans being allowed to craft their story and Bioware just giving them the tools to do so? What of all those quotes about us being equally important to building the narrative? Does our artistic vision for Shepard not matter? This isn't something we're just pulling out of our asses and demanding. This is something we were promised and told to expect when Bioware sold us the game.

My Shepard was built as a paragon hero in ME1. Then he was corrupted and fell in ME2 as he became a tool of the Illusive Man, doing all kinds of terrible, renegade-ish things, gaining a bit of redemption by blowing up the Collector Base. I built an arc for my Shepard....just like we all did. Just like Bioware encouraged us to do. Why can't I choose how that arc ends? What about my creative and artistic integrity if I am "co-creator?"

 

[Reek]

for anyone to say bioware didnt mislead its fans is just crazy to me. ME1,2,3 are like the matrix trilogy... except ME1,2,3 all kicked ass...and the suckiness that was matrix 2 and 3. was shoved into a 2 minute space at the end of ME3.

everytime i think of 'starchild' i can do nothing but picture the 'main machine' in matrix 3 that had the babyface

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

And what of all those quotes about the fans being allowed to craft their story and Bioware just giving them the tools to do so? What of all those quotes about us being equally important to building the narrative? Does our artistic vision for Shepard not matter? This isn't something we're just pulling out of our asses and demanding. This is something we were promised and told to expect when Bioware sold us the game.

If for example the galaxy was in a totally different state due to the decisions Shepard made throughout the series [BLACKOUT] But was still dead [/BLACKOUT] then they would have fulfilled their promise.