Mass Effect 3

[Harriet Tubman]

Sweet Marauder Shields. Our final boss. He spent his entire life waiting to take out Shepard.



Goodnight sweet prince.

 

[Nightmare]

I hate the new facebook timeline. Cant even read that ****.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I'm not using spoiler tags for a theoretical and potential ending that may or may not be included or expanded on later as DLC. I'll save spoiler tags for actual spoilers.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

Shepard became fully indoctrinated during the charge. For the rest of the game, he is under threat of indoctrination; maybe even feeling the "pull" if you will.

Like you said, the indoctrination process is slow, right? So, in his weakened state of mind, the slow process stretches throughout the game, but he is not fully and truly indoctrinated by the Reapers until the final push of the game, when Harbinger completes the process and Shep becomes full-Reaper.

Ergo, when Shepard meets the VI, he is not indoctrinated, but instead is under heavy threat of indoctrination. He's felt it. The Reapers are picking away at his brain. They aren't quite in there yet....but the threat is there. At the end, when he's his weakest, that's when they get him.

Spoiler

But the VI would have detected that. Like I don't get this he's kind of indoctrinated so the VI wouldn't detect that somehow argument.

Either you're saying Shepard was indoctrinated during the charge in which case Indoctrination does not work that fast. Indoctrination takes days. This was said in ME1 on Virmire quite clearly.

Or

You're saying Shepard was slowly being indoctrinated during the game - in which case the Prothean VI would have detected it.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Sweet Marauder Shields. Our final boss. He spent his entire life waiting to take out Shepard.



Goodnight sweet prince.

Hahahahahaha brilliant!

 

[Matt]

I don't see how it would be any different from buying the Fallout 3 DLC that totally negates the original F3 ending and let's you continue on..

This happens all the time with games getting post ending DLC and people are acting like it's the first time it's ever happened.

ME3 ended... But it should continue on from that ending, like many RPG's before it, in DLC.

Fallout 3 still works entirely as a standalone story whether or not you buy Broken Steel. For them to continue on one of two things will happen. Either 1) Bioware will have to choose a canonical ending (because the only one that works a little bit for a continuation is to [blackout]destroy the Reapers[/blackout]). Or option 2) negate the entire ending to ME3 with something like the indoctrination theory, which means they've released the climax to their flagship franchise without an ending.

Either way, it comes off as bad. The ending doesn't lend itself to continuation so the ending would have to change entirely.

 

[Benstamania]

In the end... I dontvreally care. I'll buy it whatever it is. I've enjoyed the series so far and I even liked my ending.

Here Bioware, here is some money. I still like you.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I don't see how it would be any different from buying the Fallout 3 DLC that totally negates the original F3 ending and let's you continue on..

This happens all the time with games getting post ending DLC and people are acting like it's the first time it's ever happened.

ME3 ended... But it should continue on from that ending, like many RPG's before it, in DLC.

I will say there is a difference if only because the narrative and continuity are so important to this series. I'm a little nervous at the idea of people without internet connections and such being singled out and separated from the rest and essentially having the "wrong' ending in their hands 2-3 months after release.

The thing with Fallout was different because as it turned out everything did in fact still happen you just survived it.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

But the VI would have detected that. Like I don't get this he's kind of indoctrinated so the VI wouldn't detect that somehow argument.

Either you're saying Shepard was indoctrinated during the charge in which case Indoctrination does not work that fast. Indoctrination takes days. This was said in ME1 on Virmire quite clearly.

Or

You're saying Shepard was slowly being indoctrinated during the game - in which case the Prothean VI would have detected it.

Spoiler

The VI detects indoctrinated people. Shepard was not fully indoctrinated yet. The VI did not detect Shepard because he was not fully indoctrinated.

Seriously what is the problem here?

 

[eternalinferno]

Spoiler

There's even a charity movement where they donate to Child's Play. They raised a couple thousand so far I think.



I posted a list of my fave moments a couple pages back. Page 23 I think. Post yours! :]

All the sections where you're uniting rival forces, I absolutely loved, finally curing the genophage was such a pleasing emotional moment, as was finally getting tali and the quarians to accept the geth, that actually played heavily in my decision to go for.control at the end, I just finally ended the conflict between the geth and quarians so I couldn't bring myself to destroy all synthetic life, the assult on the cerberus base was awesome too, I personally loved the "that.was for thane" bit after finally killing kei leng, did a little fist pump lol, and watching sheps reaction after.thessia, freaking awesome character building moment…yea I love this game

 

[Master Chief]

I'm not getting into this argument. The codex states the rules of indoctrination very clearly. It doesn't follow them. And even if it is rapid, that defeats the purpose and killing him is a hell of a lot more logical and leaves a hell of a lot less to chance. Indoctrination theory relies entirely on the Reapers being 1970s-esque Bond villains who would sooner put their adversary in an overly elaborate, escapable trap for no real reason than put a bullet in his brain.

But like I said, it could happen. Bioware has the groundwork for it. It will just require a hell of a lot of explaining. Though I refuse to believe this was their master plan all along and will instead tend to think it is a cop out due to the negative reaction. At this point the best thing to do is wait and see. Really no point in getting so aggro over it.

Spoiler

Weakening a mind's defences over time through subliminal means? Sounds like regular indoctrination to me.

There are just way too many red flags to scoff and say there are assumptions being made.

Again, I'm not (and I don't even think MC is to be honest) saying anything PROVES the theory. I'm saying that there is clear evidence to SUPPORT the theory.

I fully agree that it could go either way.

I'm not saying it's truth, I'm saying there's tons of things that fall into place a little too neatly.

Sweet Marauder Shields. Our final boss. He spent his entire life waiting to take out Shepard.



Goodnight sweet prince.

I'm not using spoiler tags for a theoretical and potential ending that may or may not be included or expanded on later as DLC. I'll save spoiler tags for actual spoilers.

Your consideration is admirable.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Again, I'm not (and I don't even think MC is to be honest) saying anything PROVES the theory. I'm saying that there is clear evidence to SUPPORT the theory.

I fully agree that it could go either way.

I just think it's the animosity with which you guys are posting that gives that impression. I mean all the Caps locks and the face palms?

In fact, I think most people here would be perfectly fine with anyones problems or distaste with the ending. For me it's the sheer level of rage. It's the swearing, the over dramatic statements, the 'I WILL NEVER BUY A BIOWARE GAME AGAIN' nonsense that is just ridiculous.

As people have pointed out before, does an ending you're not thrilled with cancel out over 100 hours of enjoyable gaming? Even if you don't fell every decision was fully met, was the game still fun for the most part?

I think discussion would be much more conducive if this thread didn't feel like the comments section of a YouTube video and was more like rational, intelligent people actually talking like people.

Since i enjoyed the ending, I actually am genuinely interested in other peoples feelings, whether they liked or disliked, and fundamentally I'm always interested in how different someone elses journey as Shepard actually was.

But the moment someone effs and jeffs their way through an explanation, with a post filled with nothing more than RAAAAAAAAAAGE, that person is completely discrediting themselves.


Another thing I think is a little unfounded is the rage at this potential planned DLC that would continue the story.... As if all these HARDCORE fans, who have such a problem with this game that they need to post petitions and whatnot, weren't going to buy the all the DLC anyway.

I mean, I'm not saying Bioware are perfect, but I don't exactly see what makes this game worthy of stronger rage than any other minor video game injustice. There wasn't this much rage with the Skyrim bugs and problems... Or the Epic Games DLC pricing fiasco...

What makes this situation SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO rife with injustice that it's worthy of all these theatrics? And i don't buy the '3 games worth of investment' argument because at the end of the day, that argument applies to any big franchise, really.

Your consideration is admirable.

How can you spoil something that doesn't exist?

 

[Benstamania]

Haha, ooooh Marauder Shields..

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

The VI detects indoctrinated people. Shepard was not fully indoctrinated yet. The VI did not detect Shepard because he was not fully indoctrinated.

Seriously what is the problem here?

Spoiler

Now you're making some real big assumptions there.

I however can say that it does detect Reapers and those under the effects of Indoctrination because there is proof - it does so quite clearly and unless the game states otherwise ANYWHERE else the impetus is really on those in support of the theory to point to some shred of evidence that the VI cannot detect somebody who is mid Indoctrination and ultimately there just isn't any evidence, in fact the evidence points to the contrary.

 

[X Knight]

and unlike other games like Fallout 3, ME 3 was specifically marketed as the END to a trilogy.

I think that's also a strong source of the frustration that many of the fans have felt in re to the ending ( and I believe it was Matt who talked about this a few days back ).

The Bioware devs constantly told us that this would be the definitive end to the trilogy, to Shepard's story. Our choices would matter. no 2 endings would be the same......etc.

if Bioware had intended for ME 3 to NOT be the final end to the trilogy, but instead to lead into future games ( ME 4 or whatever ), they should have marketed it as such.

fans were expecting a definitive end to the trilogy, and for many it seems, they got more of a [BLACKOUT]cliff-hanger, ambiguous, wtf ending.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Harriet Tubman]

There's even a charity movement where they donate to Child's Play. They raised a couple thousand so far I think.

Ha, its almost at $50,000, MC.

Hilarious how Bioware only donated $1000 to an anti-bullying group after the "Hamburger Helper" deal, and gamers have donated almost 50 times that to Child's Play in a couple of days. Brilliant.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Wolvie, it's hard not to face palm when someone completely ignores what you've said like 5 times in a row. The next time, I made sure to put it in all caps in the hopes that maybe it wouldn't be missed.

I fully agree that some of the rage has been uncalled for ("OMG I WON'T BUY BIOWARE EVER AGAIN!!!11") but at the same time there are a vast number of individuals who aren't acting fanatic at all, but rather they are expressing their distaste for the ending in the hopes that Bioware will listen and possibly look into fixing the problem (if they hadn't planned on it already, of course).

I don't see what's wrong about that whatsoever.

 

[Master Chief]

Spoiler

All the sections where you're uniting rival forces, I absolutely loved, finally curing the genophage was such a pleasing emotional moment, as was finally getting tali and the quarians to accept the geth, that actually played heavily in my decision to go for.control at the end, I just finally ended the conflict between the geth and quarians so I couldn't bring myself to destroy all synthetic life, the assult on the cerberus base was awesome too, I personally loved the "that.was for thane" bit after finally killing kei leng, did a little fist pump lol, and watching sheps reaction after.thessia, freaking awesome character building moment…yea I love this game

Spoiler

I was on the fence about curing the genophage lol, especially after meeting Wrex's brother. I trusted in Wrex and Eve to shape their people though and I'm happy I did, even though it Mordin wouldn't get to run tests on seashells. His death scene was the closest I came to crying in the game.

Renegading Kai Leng had me cheer too.

I went with Control as well. I wanted to preserve life as it was and I thought the geth and EDI deserve to live.

But the moment someone effs and jeffs their way through an explanation, with a post filled with nothing more than RAAAAAAAAAAGE, that person is completely discrediting themselves.

How can you spoil something that doesn't exist?

lol who on here is acting like that?

We're going back and forth about what the ending could possibly mean. It might not be spoiling but it certainly doesn't help anyone who doesn't want to know anything.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

Now you're making some real big assumptions there.

I however can say that it does detect Reapers and those under the effects of Indoctrination because there is proof - it does so quite clearly and unless the game states otherwise ANYWHERE else the impetus is really on those in support of the theory to point to some shred of evidence that the VI cannot detect somebody who is mid Indoctrination and ultimately there just isn't any evidence, in fact the evidence points to the contrary.

Spoiler

Where in the game does it say that the VI can detect someone mid indoctrination? Can you point me to it?

 

[Reek]

you would think bioware wouldnt change the ending at all. unless they really did mean for it to be something else (******** flag thrown), then i would accept it. i havent even seen it but, people dont go back and completely change their piece of art. except Lucas.

honestly from what ive gathered, it seems like bioware just got overwhelmed with all the different possibilites bc of all the decisions in all 3 games.

are there any rachni on my side in this freaking game?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Wolvie, it's hard not to face palm when someone completely ignores what you've said like 5 times in a row. The next time, I made sure to put it in all caps in the hopes that maybe it wouldn't be missed.

Spoiler

Where you're claiming the indoctrination happened seems to change every so often so you'll excuse me if I'm not addressing where you currently believed it happen.

 

[Benstamania]

and unlike other games like Fallout 3, ME 3 was specifically marketed as the END to a trilogy.

I think that's also a strong source of the frustration that many of the fans have felt in re to the ending ( and I believe it was Matt who talked about this a few days back ).

The Bioware devs constantly told us that this would be the definitive end to the trilogy, to Shepard's story. Our choices would matter. no 2 endings would be the same......etc.

if Bioware had intended for ME 3 to NOT be the final end to the trilogy, but instead to lead into future games ( ME 4 or whatever ), they should have marketed it as such.

fans were expecting a definitive end to the trilogy, and for many it seems, they got more of a
[BLACKOUT]cliff-hanger, ambiguous, wtf ending.[/BLACKOUT]

I think gamers take Devs at their word WAY to often. Like, there's always that one guy that always believes the hype for the next Fable game... Only to once again be let down.

I don't know, but for some reason I didn't believe ME3 was going to be the end of a trilogy.. Mostly due how popular these characters are.

I myself want to continue on as my Shepard along with Joker, Garrus, Tali, Liara, etc.

Devs always say "so and so game is going to be IT" only to give us more..

See Hideout Kojima and Metal Gear for a major example, lol.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

Where in the game does it say that the VI can detect someone mid indoctrination? Can you point me to it?

Spoiler

I can point you quite clearly to where it detects two very different forms of Reaper presence, one of which these would fall under. You're the one making the distinction and the claim, the burden of evidence is on you.

 

[Master Chief]

Spoiler

Now you're making some real big assumptions there.

I however can say that it does detect Reapers and those under the effects of Indoctrination because there is proof - it does so quite clearly and unless the game states otherwise ANYWHERE else the impetus is really on those in support of the theory to point to some shred of evidence that the VI cannot detect somebody who is mid Indoctrination and ultimately there just isn't any evidence, in fact the evidence points to the contrary.

Seriously?

Spoiler

It detects REAPERS and INDOCTRINATED people.

A person who is experiencing psychological conditioning to prep them for having their brain reprogrammed is not under reaper influence.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

It's also that 'fixing the problem' part that totally bothers me.

If the game was buggy, broken, not reading saves etc, then I would see a problem that needs fixing. This game doesn't have a problem. It has a specific way of ending the game which is a clear and definitive creative choice. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a problem.

Demanding it to be 'fixed' is just extremely gratuitous. That's like demanding they 'fix' the ending of The Dark Knight because no one liked Harvey Dent dying.

Sadly, this is just going to be a case of 'Hey guys, you didn't like it. That sucks and I'm sorry for you but... get over it.'

In other news, Firefly was cancelled, X-Men Origins: Wolverine sucked and Heath Ledger died before they could make another Batman movie with the Joker in it. Welcome to life. It can be disappointing.