Mass Effect 3

[ProjectPat2280]

Man I can't stop listening to these two tracks!





I need to go buy the entire ME series ASAP!

Yea i was about to go looking for the ME3 soundtrack to purchase then realized it came with my N7 edition. Its a great soundtrack.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Headcanon lol

My "head canon" is comparable to the ZZ Gundam's high-mega particle cannon. I blow the "default" Tali to pieces.t:

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Question about the 2nd game

Spoiler

Was the Illusive Man indoctrinated during the events of ME2?

 

[Master Chief]

Question about the 2nd game

Spoiler

Was the Illusive Man indoctrinated during the events of ME2?

Spoiler

Nah, I don't think so. He did come into contact with a reaper artifact around the end of the First Contact War but he wasn't under reaper control until ME3. If he were I think he would have given Shepard's body to the collectors instead of funding Project Lazarus.

 

[Matt]

My issue with Casey Hudson's comments.

[blackout]
"We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. "

I call bull ****. You've always told us we would shape the ending. Not some bitter sweet ending for the sake of a bitter sweet ending. I'm not saying that Shepard had to live...but I think the option should have been there. If it is the player's story as they have told us from day one, the player should get to determine Shepard's fate. Not "bitter sweet," no matter what.[/blackout]

 

[BrollySupersj]

So how about that Geth spitfire?

 

[X Knight]

My issue with Casey Hudson's comments.

[blackout]
"We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. "

I call bull ****. You've always told us we would shape the ending. Not some bitter sweet ending for the sake of a bitter sweet ending. I'm not saying that Shepard had to live...but I think the option should have been there. If it is the player's story as they have told us from day one, the player should get to determine Shepard's fate. Not "bitter sweet," no matter what.[/blackout]

Spoiler

I agree.

It almost feels like the current "bittersweet" endings should have just been 1 option out of several, not the only one.

I posted this in the prior thread, but here's how I would have presented the ending choices to the player.

1. Reapers Win

This, of course, would be the worst-possible ending choice.

Assuming you made the wrong choices throughout the games, failed to unite the Galaxy, had a low Readiness score, etc., Shepard and co would have lost the final battle. The Reapers would have succeeded in destroying Earth and wiping out the civilizations of the Galaxy.

Variations could include Shepard living or dying, and Squadmates living or dying, but with this ending, it would kind of be a moot point.......

One "dark side" variation where Shep lives would be that he joins the Reapers in the end, either willingly or by succumbing to indoctrination, and lets them destroy the Galaxy ( in exchange for sparing his life )

2. Bittersweet Victory

This option would be similar to what we got in the game. Shep would succeed in defeating the Reapers, but at great cost. That could include one or more of the following:

1. Shep dies in heroic sacrifice

2. Shep loses most/all of his squadmates and/or alliance partners

3. An entire race ( like the Geth ) must be sacrificed ( mass genocide )

Also, with this ending, the way you destroy the Reapers results in destroying/depowering the Mass Relays as well. So, the Galaxy survived the Reaper invasion but suffered a major technological setback.

The worst-case variation to this ending would be the the stranded civilizations die out ( become extinct ), fight each other for resources, synthetics and organics turn on each other again, thus continuing the cycle.

A better variation would be that the civilizations rebuild, slowly but surely, inspired by the sacrifices of Shep and his crew.

3. Peace and Hope

This would be the happy, "Disney" ending. It would require players to make the best choices and have the highest Readiness score.

In this ending, Shep succeeds in destroying the Reapers, WITHOUT destroying the Mass Relays. Shep himself may live or die, any number of his squadmates may live or die.

If Shep lives, he retires from military duty to a quiet life with his LI. If Shep dies, perhaps Garrus or Anderson or his LI recounts the story of his noble sacrifice.

Regardless, a new era of peace and intergalactic cooperation is ushered in. Humans earn a great deal more respect from the other races. More importanly, Shep and his crew gave the civilizations of the Galaxy Hope. Hope that there can be a better future, where all races ( organic and synthetic alike ) can coexist peacefully together.

So, those would be the 3 basic variations on the ending. Of course, based on the player's choices throughout the 3 games, there would be several more variations on those endings. But that's the basic structure.

And there would be something for everyone.

The sadistic players who want to see the world burn would have that option.

The players who love bittersweet victories that come at a great cost will have that, too.

And those of us who want happy Disney endings can have that option.

How's that??

Would that have been better than what we got??

 

[Reek]

is Priority: Cerberus Headquarters the point of no return (i.e. ilos and suicide mission) or can you still do side missions/scanning/MP before the final battle

 

[Reek]

naturally no one is on as im sitting her deciding whether to do the mission or not

 

[The Squirrel]

Google it! I haven't played, so I don't know.

 

[Reek]

then why on earth are you in this thread posting

 

[The Squirrel]

Because I can.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Cory, in regards to your question. [BLACKOUT] Yes. [/BLACKOUT]

Sounds like going by Hudson's comments they are going to go ahead with some kind of ending related DLC, whatever form it will take.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Cory, in regards to your question. [BLACKOUT] Yes. [/BLACKOUT]

Sounds like going by Hudson's comments they are going to go ahead with some kind of ending related DLC, whatever form it will take.

See, I didn't get that whatsoever from his post. It was intentionally vague and extremely annoying IMO.

Spoiler

"This is not the end of Shepard" doesn't even remotely validate post-ending or ending-"fixing" DLC. Like, frig...they could release pre-ending DLC and say "HEY...it's not the end of Shepard, because you're playing him again, see???"

Like FFS they need to just say "We will be considering an ending DLC for our fans" or "ME3 DLC will most likely not be in relation to the ending." Anything else is just more BS and stringing everyone along.

But hey, maybe I'm just a bit weary of Hudson's words since they basically amount to nothing. Go figure.


EDIT: This, however, gives me a bit more hope:

Spoiler

" Jessica Merizan wrote...

I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.

In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.

Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).

Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard."

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

I don't think he has anything more specific to say at the moment, but he does point out that they always have responded pretty directly to fan complaint and demand and that is true.

And he does point out what was a lot of people's problems with the ending being a complete lack of closure and answers so this gives me a good deal of hope.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

I get what you're saying and I hope you're right, but I dunno...just because he acknowledges the lack of closure and fan disappointment doesn't mean he's gonna do anything about it.

That being said, I don't think it reads like "Yeah we hear the feedback but too bad," either. I just think it's incredibly vague, though I'm guessing he's gonna be a lot more careful about what he promises to fans from now on, I suppose.

I'll be crossing my fingers that you're right.

 

[X Knight]

Spoiler

but this is the same guy who promised us no A/B/C endings, choices will matter, blah blah blah........

so I'm not going to believe anything until I hear or read specifics.........

 

[Solidus]

Finally got 10 hours into it, I'm still afraid of this thread though. I like it so far.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I know it's old news but I just got to the part where [BLACKOUT]EDI gets her body. I've been droning on about how cool that would be that since the second game came out, I never actually thought it'd happen though. So cool. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

but this is the same guy who promised us no A/B/C endings, choices will matter, blah blah blah........

so I'm not going to believe anything until I hear or read specifics.........

Spoiler

Granted but he's still right that Bioware has always responded to their fan's complaints through their content. Stuff like Overlord, Shadowbroker and ME3 as a whole were in fact very directly shaped through feedback.

This team has a history of a whole lot more good than bad in regards to listening to their fans and its clear that they can see there is a huge demand specifically for more closure and answers than what we received.

 

[Solidus]

I know it's old news but I just got to the part where [BLACKOUT]EDI gets her body. I've been droning on about how cool that would be that since the second game came out, I never actually thought it'd happen though. So cool. [/BLACKOUT]

Oh ya I like that.

 

[Soapy]

God I hope Bioware is smart about how they go about this. I can easily see them misconstruing the fans desire for a better ending with more closure and we end up with some kind of awful, sappy, MGS4esque ending where everyone is happy and alive and happy and happy and Garrus got his arms chopped off, but it's okay! He has new arms now! And a son too! And oh look! James and Ashley are getting married! Yaaaay!

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Are you saying Meryl should marry James instead?

 

[ProjectPat2280]

U guys are lucky I don't run Bioware. I would of told you all to go f**k yourselves. You got the ending you got. Deal with it. NO DLC FOR YOU! COME BACK, ONE YEAR!

 

[X Knight]

ok, now that I've actually watched the full ending sequences on Youtube, I've got some thoughts on them:

Spoiler

First, despite what was promised/claimed/advertised by the devs, the 3 ending choices are pretty much the same thing. So, any pretense of no 2 choices being the same, so many outcomes due to all the choices the player makes, etc., all of that was a lie.

But, anyways, and maybe this lends itself to the whole hallucination/indoctrination theory, one thing that I noticed about how Shepard interacts with the Catalyst/Star-Child, is how "passive" or "submissive" or "docile" Shepard is.

Shepard never really questions anything the Catalyst tells him. It's like he accepts everything the Catalyst tells him at face value.

When the Catalyst explains the Destroy option and says that the cycle of chaos will continue, Shep just says "Maybe." He doesn't question it or argue, like he's already resigned to his fate and just agrees with the Catalyst.

Same with the Control option. Shep immediately says that TIM was right after all. When the Catalyst says that TIM couldn't control the Reapers, Shep says "But I can" and asks if the Reapers will obey him. And the Catalyst says that Shep will die but yes, the Reapers will obey Shep. Again, Shep just accepts that. Doesn't question why he can control the Reapers whereas TIM failed. Doesn't question if he can trust the Catalyst that the Reapers won't go back on their word. Again, just accepts what the Catalyst says.

With the Synthesis option, Shep says he doesn't know, but then asks if there will be peace. The Catalyst says yes and that this is the final evolution. Again, Shep doesn't question it. doesn't push for more details, even though the implications of this option are staggering ( you'd be turning all organic life into some kind of hybrid ).

Even when the Catalyst tells Shep that, no matter which option, the Mass Relays will be destroyed, Shep, once again, just accepts that. He doesn't argue and say that will destroy the nearby star systems and cause mass genocide ( like in Arrival ). He doesn't question the Catalyst if that outcome will occur again this time.

Shep just seems so nonchalant, subdued, and accepting of everything the Catalyst says. Even his facial expressions and demeanor.......very calm and subdued.........And I know that Shep is injured and talking to a "child," but Shep is hunched over, his head "bowed" down. Again, a very "submissive," "defeated" look.

Heck, he doesn't even question why the Catalyst looks like the child that he saw die at the beginning and who has been haunting his dreams. He doesn't ask the Catalyst if this is real, another dream, a hallucination or if the child was real to begin with. Again, he just accepts the Catalyst's explanation.

And that brings up another point. The lack of any real player input in this whole dialogue with the Catalyst. Now, I haven't played ME 3, so maybe the dialogue wheel choices have been pared down. But I remember in ME 1 and ME 2, you could ask other characters questions. You can challenge them, prod them for more info. Sometimes, you can get pretty deep in those question chains ( one question leads to another ).

In the whole Catalyst dialogue sequence, the player is given pretty much ZERO options to interact with the Catalyst, ask questions, or challenge him. I think there was only 1 instance of the dialogue wheel, and that was to pick 2 options, and they were more like comments that Shep makes.

But other than that, nothing. The whole conversation is pretty much on auto-pilot, and Shep pretty much accepts everything that the Catalyst says and explains, as I detailed above.

And that, to me, is very, very odd. It seems so out of character for Shep. I know my Shep would never do that. I get that by the end of the game, Shep is tired, weary, and injured.

But, are you telling me that, after all that Shep has been through during the 3 games ( and even before that given his history/backstory ), Shep is just going to "give up," "submit," and accept whatever explanations and options this mysterious Catalyst/Star-Child entity is telling him? without questioning him, challenging him, arguing with him to expose the flaws in his logic and choices?

I find that very, very hard to believe. It just seems so "counter" to everything the player has experienced playing as Shep. The whole series is supposed to be based on controlling a character, defining him, and making choices. Yet, in this final sequence, it seems that taking control and making choices is, well, largely absent ( aside from choosing A/B/C at the end ). The player suddenly becomes more of a spectator than an active participant.

And that's why, while it may be grasping at straws, there may be something to this whole indoctrination/hallucination theory. Especially when you consider the "best" ending when you pick Destroy and you get the scene where Shep is in the rubble and takes a breath. That rubble looked very much like stone, suggesting that Shep was still on Earth.

If the rubble was on the destroyed Citadel, how would he be able to breathe in space? And he sure as heck didn't fall from the Citadel back down to Earth, otherwise he would have burned up in the atmosphere.

And, wasn't Shep supposed to die in the Destroy option ( the Catalyst said so as Shep is part synthetic )? It seems Edi can also appear in the jungle scene even with the Destroy option. Again, that contradicts what the Catalyst said ( all synthetics would be destroyed ).

Does that mean the Catalyst was lying to you about the Destroy option, to steer you away from that towards Control and Synthesis ( where the Reapers will survive )?

So, the whole ending sequence leaves way too many questions unanswered. They are vague, ambiguous, and very cliff-hangery, especially with the bonus Shepard Lives scene. They feel so abrupt, disjointed, like the scenes were pieced together without a real sense of "flow". They leave you asking "Wait! That's it?? What happens next?"

Certainly not the "definitive" end to the story they promised.........

It feels like 90% of the ending is there, but where's the remaining 10%?