Mass Effect 3

[Balthus Dire]

I feel like the mean tweets, the FTC complaints, etc undermine the fans who have legitimate concerns and are just childish.

In fairness, that's always going to be the case from somebody. Even if you amassed a huge group of mature intellectuals, there's still gonna be some dumb ass jerks within the group who make everyone else look bad. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone into that category like some people seem to be doing.


Anywho, regarding Miranda in ME3:

Spoiler

She was my LI and I would've been MUCH happier if her death was canon. I had no idea she could die, but after seeing that video it would've made her LI story much more interesting and meaningful. As it is now, I thought it was a really flat story arc and kind of pointless.

If the ending wouldn't have been so "final" I think I would feel differently about wanting her death to be canon, but since Shep dies anyway it would've made perfect, beautiful sense.

Which is why I'm not surprised they didn't go with it.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Spoiler

Miranda was my love interest in Mass Effect 2 and I stayed loyal to her in Mass Effect 3, so yeah, I warned her about Kai Leng and she survived the encounter. Although her death scene was quite well-done and would've given me further incentive (...and satisfaction) to finally put one in that chinky-eyed bastard Kai Leng but I think your last moment with her in London was equally touching as well. It was really tragic for Shepard that before his final charge into death's arms that Shepard could not be with the person he loved most.

Also, I'm glad I didn't cave in when Ashley confronted Shepard about Miranda, especially when I saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuouaOhZorE&feature=related

Ashley stayed loyal to the Alliance in Mass Effect 2 instead of siding with Shepard and did not fully trust him even in Mass Effect 3 but when Miranda was confronted with a similar dilemma, she ditched Cerberus and the Illusive Man. I just couldn't bear rejecting her after that. Not to mention the ice queen actually breaks into tears if you do whereas with Ashley, you can let her down easy and it isn't as dramatic.

So yeah, Miranda might not have gotten much time in Mass Effect 3, but whatever little she got was just aces. Both her death and farewell scenes make her the ideal (and if it were up to me, canonical as well) love interest for Shepard. To me, Tali was never an option because she was more like your little sister in the first one, so it always seemed kind of wrong. Jack was too wild and vulgar for my squeeky-clean paragon. Kelly Chambers was too 'lite' and wasn't interesting enough. Liara was very tempting but I wanted at least one female squadmate who was a genuine friend to Shepard and she fit the bill nicely, even moreso than Tali in Mass Effect 3.

Wow.

Spoiler

She was my paramour in ME2 and ME3...and she survived. I don't know if I could commit to having Miranda's death to my main Shep save. That scene is powerful...but man would it hurt too much.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

In the middle of my insanity playthrough. Just did the scene where Liara asks Shepard for his input on the time capsule that she's putting together for the next Cycle. Such a fantastic scene.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

Agreed. Too bad it doesn't pay off whatsoever.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

I was almost certain that would have shown up had the ending gone super bad and the Reapers won with an alien finding it and turning it on.

Still, a great scene nevertheless. I haven't seen love interest Liara too much, but I really like what they did with friend Liara in 3.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

I was almost certain that would have shown up had the ending gone super bad and the Reapers won with an alien finding it and turning it on. Still, a great scene nevertheless.

Spoiler

It should've played over the end credits or something, or over a pic of your Shep in a post-credits scene. It's incredibly short sighted that they didn't consider something like this.

TBH I thought Liara had some of the most fantastic emotional scenes in the game. They handled her so well; she was truly touching and I believed every second of it.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

Yeah, considering I found her kind of a flat character pre-Shadowbroker the way they turned that character around and where they took was really impressive.

Her and Tali were the only characters that my Shep didn't put up a brave front for and how private those scenes were made them really special.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

I romanced Liara in ME1 but maintained my Miranda LI for ME2 and 3 and I thought the relationship between my Shep and Liara as a result was so damn realistic it was just unbelievable writing. They had all the makings of a relationship that had deep roots yet in choosing to say just friends they became something almost closer; like they have this unbreakable underlying thing tying them together.

For example, her final "gift" was such a simple scene but the way she puts her head on Shep's shoulder is just so fantastic and true to their entire relationship. It's really beautiful.

 

[Fenrir]

Spoiler

I just played the final Citadel mission again to check how my paragon Shepard would do with renegade choices and going through that whole segment again, I understood why the entire confrontation with the Illusive Man freaked me out a bit. It was daring and unconventional yet familiar but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Now I remember that it was because it felt so much like the pitch black final act of Apocalypse Now which was basically about descent into madness (and coincidentally also starred Martin Sheen). It starts with the shot of Willard's boat approaching Kurtz's hideout as the sun is setting and it progressively becomes darker and more nightmarish. Even though Willard ultimately succeeds in his mission, the climax is overwhelmingly grim and depressing.

Moreover, I've said before that there is nothing I would hate more than to see Bioware actually changing the ending rather than bandaid the situation with an extended epilogue, and that the suggestion that Shepard was indoctrinated was simply the last refuge of fans in denial, you have to admit that there is something strangely abstract about the entire sequence after you are hit by the laser. The background is hazy and unfamiliar. The surrounding details seem to have suddenly been washed away. When Shepard wakes up in the Citadel, the walls, the lighting and the surrounding piles of dead bodies are reminiscent of hell. The conversation between Anderson and the Illusive Man is less like that between two individuals and more like two different ideals (or parts of one's psyche), as if it were a conversation between an angel and a demon, with the cleaner and still completely human Anderson and the horrifically deformed Illusive Man. Regardless of what you believe about the indoctrination theory, you have to admit that that it at least has a sound basis, even if it does ultimately turn out to be untrue. The entire finale is too much like a dream or an imaginary construction rather than something tangible and real. What's more, on paying further attention to the responses of the Catalyst-child, it is strangely suspicious the way he is so cynically predisposed and dismissive towards the decision of destroying the Reapers and paints it as a complete lose-lose situation, as if deliberately trying to throw you off...
''You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Even the geth. Even you are partly synthetic. [Shepard: But the Reapers would be destroyed?] Yes, but the peace won't last. Soon, your children would create synthetics and then the chaos would come back''

When asked about the control option, the Catalyst child still does not give a completely encouraging response:
''Or...do you think you can control us? [Shepard: Huh, so the Illusive Man was right after all?] Yes, but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him [Shepard: But I can?] You will die. You will control us but you will lose everything you have.''

And then directs you to what appears to be his preferred proposition:
''Synthesis...the chain reaction would combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework...a new DNA [Shepard: I...don't know] Why not? Synthetics are already a part of you. Can you imagine your life without them? [Shepard: And there will be peace?] The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life.''

At the same time, a couple of things the Catalyst-child says stick out like a sore thumb. When asked about the Reapers, he says ''I control the Reapers, they are my solution'', but then later on constantly keeps using the word ''we'' says ''I know you thought about destroying us'', ''control us'' and many other instances, essentially passing himself as a part of the Reapers rather than as their creator. How does the option of destroying all synthetic life affect the Catalyst unless he too was synthetic, or perhaps a Reaper (most probably the head-honcho) himself? That might explain why he's trying so hard to turn Shepard away from the destroy option. As for control, his slight ambivalence about it suggests that it is something that he expects will be Shepard's second-best choice. Because Shepard will gain control, the Catalyst is not very thrilled about it but accepts it because he prefers survival to extinction.

Now, coming to the synthesis choice, the Catalyst says that the Reapers (or again, ''we'') don't want to wipe out all organic life, but merely harvest advanced civilisations. Since advancement is directly associated with technology, the Reapers harvest (or perhaps can harvest) only those civilisations that have reached a certain level of technological advancement and leave alone the primitive ones. What is scary about the synthesis option is that he says that it will merge organic and synthetic life, which is strangely enough, exactly what Reapers do to begin with - ''We help them ascend, so that they can make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form''. So he is basically selling us Reapers in a different wrapping.

There is just too much WTF here for it all to be a coincidence. Either it is deliberate or Bioware's collossal f**k-up was so massive that the ensuing chaos unintentionally gave life to an actual valid theory that makes more sense than the real ending itself.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Now you're seeing it!

My theory?

Spoiler

Bioware intended to use a false indoctrinated ending (likely with an immediate "waking up" ending to follow), but wussed out for whatever reason (time constraints seem most likely). Instead of remodelling a proper ending, they instead left their indoctrination elements in the game and cobbled together a half-assed ending in the hopes that fans would just eat it up. Only, they didn't.

There's no solid proof, of course, but the "Final Hours" thing mentions that Bioware had considered indoctrination as a possible ending. I think it was probably a lot more than a "possible" ending but it got swept under the rug last minute.

I'd be more than happy if they lifted said rug and pulled it out again, though.

 

[Fenrir]

Spoiler

Probably. I was so shaken by the encounter with the Illusive Man that I completely missed that the Catalyst-child was essentially acting like a used-car salesman and clearly trying to manipulate you by giving you the false illusion of choice while blatantly pegging one over the other. It's not possible that the writers who are responsible for all the rest of the amazing stuff in the game could in any way miss or even conceive something like this. I mean, they can come up with phenomenal set-ups like the Citadel shootout with Garrus, Liara's 'gift', Tali returning to her homeworld, Thane having his son say a prayer for you while he is himself on his deathbed and Mordin dying while softly singing 'scientist salarian' yet they couldn't see their FUBAR ending from a galactic mile away?

 

[Master Chief]

Spoiler

I just played the final Citadel mission again to check how my paragon Shepard would do with renegade choices and going through that whole segment again, I understood why the entire confrontation with the Illusive Man freaked me out a bit. It was daring and unconventional yet familiar but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Now I remember that it was because it felt so much like the pitch black final act of Apocalypse Now which was basically about descent into madness (and coincidentally also starred Martin Sheen). It starts with the shot of Willard's boat approaching Kurtz's hideout as the sun is setting and it progressively becomes darker and more nightmarish. Even though Willard ultimately succeeds in his mission, the climax is overwhelmingly grim and depressing.

Moreover, I've said before that there is nothing I would hate more than to see Bioware actually changing the ending rather than bandaid the situation with an extended epilogue, and that the suggestion that Shepard was indoctrinated was simply the last refuge of fans in denial, you have to admit that there is something strangely abstract about the entire sequence after you are hit by the laser. The background is hazy and unfamiliar. The surrounding details seem to have suddenly been washed away. When Shepard wakes up in the Citadel, the walls, the lighting and the surrounding piles of dead bodies are reminiscent of hell. The conversation between Anderson and the Illusive Man is less like that between two individuals and more like two different ideals (or parts of one's psyche), as if it were a conversation between an angel and a demon, with the cleaner and still completely human Anderson and the horrifically deformed Illusive Man. Regardless of what you believe about the indoctrination theory, you have to admit that that it at least has a sound basis, even if it does ultimately turn out to be untrue. The entire finale is too much like a dream or an imaginary construction rather than something tangible and real. What's more, on paying further attention to the responses of the Catalyst-child, it is strangely suspicious the way he is so cynically predisposed and dismissive towards the decision of destroying the Reapers and paints it as a complete lose-lose situation, as if deliberately trying to throw you off...
''You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Even the geth. Even you are partly synthetic. [Shepard: But the Reapers would be destroyed?] Yes, but the peace won't last. Soon, your children would create synthetics and then the chaos would come back''

When asked about the control option, the Catalyst child still does not give a completely encouraging response:
''Or...do you think you can control us? [Shepard: Huh, so the Illusive Man was right after all?] Yes, but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him [Shepard: But I can?] You will die. You will control us but you will lose everything you have.''

And then directs you to what appears to be his preferred proposition:
''Synthesis...the chain reaction would combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework...a new DNA [Shepard: I...don't know] Why not? Synthetics are already a part of you. Can you imagine your life without them? [Shepard: And there will be peace?] The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life.''

At the same time, a couple of things the Catalyst-child says stick out like a sore thumb. When asked about the Reapers, he says ''I control the Reapers, they are my solution'', but then later on constantly keeps using the word ''we'' says ''I know you thought about destroying us'', ''control us'' and many other instances, essentially passing himself as a part of the Reapers rather than as their creator. How does the option of destroying all synthetic life affect the Catalyst unless he too was synthetic, or perhaps a Reaper (most probably the head-honcho) himself? That might explain why he's trying so hard to turn Shepard away from the destroy option. As for control, his slight ambivalence about it suggests that it is something that he expects will be Shepard's second-best choice. Because Shepard will gain control, the Catalyst is not very thrilled about it but accepts it because he prefers survival to extinction.

Now, coming to the synthesis choice, the Catalyst says that the Reapers (or again, ''we'') don't want to wipe out all organic life, but merely harvest advanced civilisations. Since advancement is directly associated with technology, the Reapers harvest (or perhaps can harvest) only those civilisations that have reached a certain level of technological advancement and leave alone the primitive ones. What is scary about the synthesis option is that he says that it will merge organic and synthetic life, which is strangely enough, exactly what Reapers do to begin with - ''We help them ascend, so that they can make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form''. So he is basically selling us Reapers in a different wrapping.

There is just too much WTF here for it all to be a coincidence. Either it is deliberate or Bioware's collossal f**k-up was so massive that the ensuing chaos unintentionally gave life to an actual valid theory that makes more sense than the real ending itself.

Fenrir, I dunno if you caught the video I posted last page but here it is again. There's some extra stuff you might not have noticed.

Spoiler

This video analyses the ending in its entirety. There's even something he didn't point out: Check the eyes during control/synthesis.

Now you're seeing it!

My theory?

Spoiler

Bioware intended to use a false indoctrinated ending (likely with an immediate "waking up" ending to follow), but wussed out for whatever reason (time constraints seem most likely). Instead of remodelling a proper ending, they instead left their indoctrination elements in the game and cobbled together a half-assed ending in the hopes that fans would just eat it up. Only, they didn't.

There's no solid proof, of course, but the "Final Hours" thing mentions that Bioware had considered indoctrination as a possible ending. I think it was probably a lot more than a "possible" ending but it got swept under the rug last minute.

I'd be more than happy if they lifted said rug and pulled it out again, though.

Hahah yeah, I can't accept that this brilliant team wanted to end the story there. Casey Hudson said fans help write the game so I really hope that even if they didn't plan it they're working something out.

Spoiler

But there are just waaay too many red flags for them not to have planned anything not related to indoctrination. t:

 

[SolarTiger]

I've stayed outta this thread the last week or so while I've been playing the game but I'm near the end and have a question-

Spoiler

Is the assault on the Illusive man's base after you confront Miranda's father the last time I can do any side missions/visit the citadel? Or after that is there still one more chance to do anything else I need to do?

 

[Master Chief]

I've stayed outta this thread the last week or so while I've been playing the game but I'm near the end and have a question-

Spoiler

Is the assault on the Illusive man's base after you confront Miranda's father the last time I can do any side missions/visit the citadel? Or after that is there still one more chance to do anything else I need to do?

Spoiler

Assaulting the base is the point of no return so clean up anything you wanna get done.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Is anyone else annoyed that the upgrades you can get at the terminal in Liara's office don't transfer in NG+? I am, nearly everything else transfers over but those.

 

[Harriet Tubman]

There is just too much WTF here for it all to be a coincidence. Either it is deliberate or Bioware's collossal f**k-up was so massive that the ensuing chaos unintentionally gave life to an actual valid theory that makes more sense than the real ending itself.

I agree with your entire post, but especially this. Everything else in the game (hell, everything else in Bioware's history) is written so well. I just can't believe that the ending wasn't made intentionally off.

Now you're seeing it!

My theory?

Spoiler

Bioware intended to use a false indoctrinated ending (likely with an immediate "waking up" ending to follow), but wussed out for whatever reason (time constraints seem most likely). Instead of remodelling a proper ending, they instead left their indoctrination elements in the game and cobbled together a half-assed ending in the hopes that fans would just eat it up. Only, they didn't.

There's no solid proof, of course, but the "Final Hours" thing mentions that Bioware had considered indoctrination as a possible ending. I think it was probably a lot more than a "possible" ending but it got swept under the rug last minute.

I'd be more than happy if they lifted said rug and pulled it out again, though.

And then there is this. I actually think this is what happened. We have already seen a clip that was cut from the ending of [BLACKOUT]Garrus and Liara getting hit by the beam from Harbinger and possibly dying[/BLACKOUT]. We know they cut stuff out from the ending. I think that when the original ending leaked, they felt rushed, and patched together something as quick as possible, thinking that their new ending was adequate. Once the fans started to beat the game, and once Bioware heard the outrage, they decided they could capitalize on it with ending DLC (which, while it hasn't been announced, is going to come, and yes, it will cost money). Its just a no brainer. Of course they will put out a new ending via DLC. The fans have shown they are willing to pay for it. Just look at the BSN forums. Every other post is a hardcore fan screaming that they are willing to pay for it. Then look at the Child's Play drive. Over $50,000 donated? Of course the DLC will cost something, and thats too unfortunate.

 

[Matt]

You know the indoctrination crowd is starting to win me over. I'm starting to believe. The Prothean V.I. still doesn't make sense (nor does the motivation behind rapid indoctrination when it would only result in quick death)....but I'm starting to believe.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Me too, Matt.

It's really the only thing that could, logically, explain some of the...weird/crazy things that happen.

Spoiler

I looked up the conversations and different aspects and implications of the endings...and yeah. People have a good reason to be pissed. There's a lot of strange stuff, and I'm bothered by how things don't seem to change with any of the choices made at the end.

The indoctrination idea makes the most sense to me, because it could be the last ditch effort made by the Reapers to stop Shepard. The Illusive Man was their slave once he'd been indoctrinated, and he was supposed to stop Shepard. Once The Illusive Man pulled a Saren, and overcame it...makes sense to try and trick Shepard into thinking he'd won the war, and possibly save them. Their logic (the Reapers) also seems to probably hinge on Shepard being, ultimately, and idiot too. Atleast in hindsight.

They could probably even toss the idea that maybe the kid was never actually real, either. But, just The Reapers slowly worming their way into Shepard's mind?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Spoiler

I romanced Liara in ME1 but maintained my Miranda LI for ME2 and 3 and I thought the relationship between my Shep and Liara as a result was so damn realistic it was just unbelievable writing. They had all the makings of a relationship that had deep roots yet in choosing to say just friends they became something almost closer; like they have this unbreakable underlying thing tying them together.

For example, her final "gift" was such a simple scene but the way she puts her head on Shep's shoulder is just so fantastic and true to their entire relationship. It's really beautiful.

Agreed. That relationship, for me entirely built on friendship....was one of the major accomplishments of Bioware with this series, I think.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Spoiler

I just played the final Citadel mission again to check how my paragon Shepard would do with renegade choices and going through that whole segment again, I understood why the entire confrontation with the Illusive Man freaked me out a bit. It was daring and unconventional yet familiar but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Now I remember that it was because it felt so much like the pitch black final act of Apocalypse Now which was basically about descent into madness (and coincidentally also starred Martin Sheen). It starts with the shot of Willard's boat approaching Kurtz's hideout as the sun is setting and it progressively becomes darker and more nightmarish. Even though Willard ultimately succeeds in his mission, the climax is overwhelmingly grim and depressing.

Moreover, I've said before that there is nothing I would hate more than to see Bioware actually changing the ending rather than bandaid the situation with an extended epilogue, and that the suggestion that Shepard was indoctrinated was simply the last refuge of fans in denial, you have to admit that there is something strangely abstract about the entire sequence after you are hit by the laser. The background is hazy and unfamiliar. The surrounding details seem to have suddenly been washed away. When Shepard wakes up in the Citadel, the walls, the lighting and the surrounding piles of dead bodies are reminiscent of hell. The conversation between Anderson and the Illusive Man is less like that between two individuals and more like two different ideals (or parts of one's psyche), as if it were a conversation between an angel and a demon, with the cleaner and still completely human Anderson and the horrifically deformed Illusive Man. Regardless of what you believe about the indoctrination theory, you have to admit that that it at least has a sound basis, even if it does ultimately turn out to be untrue. The entire finale is too much like a dream or an imaginary construction rather than something tangible and real. What's more, on paying further attention to the responses of the Catalyst-child, it is strangely suspicious the way he is so cynically predisposed and dismissive towards the decision of destroying the Reapers and paints it as a complete lose-lose situation, as if deliberately trying to throw you off...
''You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Even the geth. Even you are partly synthetic. [Shepard: But the Reapers would be destroyed?] Yes, but the peace won't last. Soon, your children would create synthetics and then the chaos would come back''

When asked about the control option, the Catalyst child still does not give a completely encouraging response:
''Or...do you think you can control us? [Shepard: Huh, so the Illusive Man was right after all?] Yes, but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him [Shepard: But I can?] You will die. You will control us but you will lose everything you have.''

And then directs you to what appears to be his preferred proposition:
''Synthesis...the chain reaction would combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework...a new DNA [Shepard: I...don't know] Why not? Synthetics are already a part of you. Can you imagine your life without them? [Shepard: And there will be peace?] The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life.''

At the same time, a couple of things the Catalyst-child says stick out like a sore thumb. When asked about the Reapers, he says ''I control the Reapers, they are my solution'', but then later on constantly keeps using the word ''we'' says ''I know you thought about destroying us'', ''control us'' and many other instances, essentially passing himself as a part of the Reapers rather than as their creator. How does the option of destroying all synthetic life affect the Catalyst unless he too was synthetic, or perhaps a Reaper (most probably the head-honcho) himself? That might explain why he's trying so hard to turn Shepard away from the destroy option. As for control, his slight ambivalence about it suggests that it is something that he expects will be Shepard's second-best choice. Because Shepard will gain control, the Catalyst is not very thrilled about it but accepts it because he prefers survival to extinction.

Now, coming to the synthesis choice, the Catalyst says that the Reapers (or again, ''we'') don't want to wipe out all organic life, but merely harvest advanced civilisations. Since advancement is directly associated with technology, the Reapers harvest (or perhaps can harvest) only those civilisations that have reached a certain level of technological advancement and leave alone the primitive ones. What is scary about the synthesis option is that he says that it will merge organic and synthetic life, which is strangely enough, exactly what Reapers do to begin with - ''We help them ascend, so that they can make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form''. So he is basically selling us Reapers in a different wrapping.

There is just too much WTF here for it all to be a coincidence. Either it is deliberate or Bioware's collossal f**k-up was so massive that the ensuing chaos unintentionally gave life to an actual valid theory that makes more sense than the real ending itself.

Yeah.

Spoiler

Either it was pure genius, or genius as a by product of a mistake. But, that indoctrination idea works for me.

And yeah, from the point forward of trying to get to the beam...the game does become this very dream-like sequence of events. The child VI was a real mind****.

Good point made, by the way, Fenrir. Interesting observations.

 

[Matt]

Me too, Matt.

It's really the only thing that could, logically, explain some of the...weird/crazy things that happen.

Spoiler

I looked up the conversations and different aspects and implications of the endings...and yeah. People have a good reason to be pissed. There's a lot of strange stuff, and I'm bothered by how things don't seem to change with any of the choices made at the end.

The indoctrination idea makes the most sense to me, because it could be the last ditch effort made by the Reapers to stop Shepard. The Illusive Man was their slave once he'd been indoctrinated, and he was supposed to stop Shepard. Once The Illusive Man pulled a Saren, and overcame it...makes sense to try and trick Shepard into thinking he'd won the war, and possibly save them. Their logic (the Reapers) also seems to probably hinge on Shepard being, ultimately, and idiot too. Atleast in hindsight.

They could probably even toss the idea that maybe the kid was never actually real, either. But, just The Reapers slowly worming their way into Shepard's mind?

Spoiler

If the indoctrination theory is true though, when did it start? Is Anderson still alive? What about the Illusive Man? His death was so perfect (I personally killed him). Is that all just hallucination? Is the Illusive Man even truly indoctrinated or is that just in Shepard's mind?

It raises A LOT of questions that will need to be answered.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

You know the indoctrination crowd is starting to win me over. I'm starting to believe. The Prothean V.I. still doesn't make sense (nor does the motivation behind rapid indoctrination when it would only result in quick death)....but I'm starting to believe.

In all this arguing, i haven't even really looked at their 'theories'. Im still in the middle of my Mass Effect trilogy replay so I'm gonna have to look at all these indoctrination ideas when i get to the 3rd game.

I dont care either way. I want more Mass Effect 3. Preferably DLC that continues my Shepard, so i guess that makes me pro indoctrination? My only gripe is, was this planned from the start? Did they make this game with the intention of giving us a false end only to release the real end via dlc? If so and if this is successful(lets not kid ourselves, it will be) how many companies follow suit? Am i gonna have to start paying for every real ending from now on?

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

It does raise questions, but the current ending raises just as many lol.

I'd imagine if they go with indoctrination it would've began when Shep was knocked unconscious by Harbinger's beam. Harbinger knows he can't beat Shep physically; even bruised and broken, he always overcomes adversity. So, instead, he attacks the mind in hopes that in those final moments the Reapers will find success by dominating Shep's mind. Thus, everything else after Shep wakes up is a hallucination.

I really hope that's what Bioware goes with and it would completely redeem both the ending and the developer in my eyes. I'm also glad to see more and more people are realizing how cool the "theory" is.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

One of the major problems is they'd need to do the Anderson/Illusive Man confrontation again.

And again I'm left worrying about all the people without Live (50% of Xbox users) who would essentially have the wrong ending on their hands.

But just my feeling from Hudson's comments is he made it sound as if they're going to stick with their ending but that they're going to simply focus on giving more answers and closure.

 

[Fenrir]

Spoiler

It does raise questions, but the current ending raises just as many lol.

I'd imagine if they go with indoctrination it would've began when Shep was knocked unconscious by Harbinger's beam. Harbinger knows he can't beat Shep physically; even bruised and broken, he always overcomes adversity. So, instead, he attacks the mind in hopes that in those final moments the Reapers will find success by dominating Shep's mind. Thus, everything else after Shep wakes up is a hallucination.

I really hope that's what Bioware goes with and it would completely redeem both the ending and the developer in my eyes. I'm also glad to see more and more people are realizing how cool the "theory" is.

It's not a question of being 'cool'. It's a matter of how conveniently everything in the entire finale fits with the theory, so much so that it is difficult to imagine it all being just a mistake. I personally thought the whole 'indoctrination' idea was completely bogus and people reaching for conclusions, but as I observed things a bit more closely during my subsequent playthrough of the climax, even I can admit that something wasn't quite right with the way it all played out and no one can deny that.